Who's voting against the Fox/Lew deal on 29th
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Who's voting against the Fox/Lew deal on 29th
I've heard there's not much chance of this going through. Apparently there are people collecting proxies from hundreds of unhappy "secured creditors" (read old Ansett staff)to go to the Creditors Meeting on 29th to vote against it.
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Sorry Strobes - the reality IS that there are (count 'em) 2,700,000 mightily p****d-off unsecured creditors out there in the form of Global Rewards FF points holders.
Every man jack of those 2.7 million with an equal vote! They'll swamp the staff and other creditors by a country mile.
Unless FoxLew themselves face reality on this and give a cast-iron guarantee of honouring points to this ready made customer base then they'll turn en-masse as one and the Tesna deal doesn't stand a prayer of getting up.
Every man jack of those 2.7 million with an equal vote! They'll swamp the staff and other creditors by a country mile.
Unless FoxLew themselves face reality on this and give a cast-iron guarantee of honouring points to this ready made customer base then they'll turn en-masse as one and the Tesna deal doesn't stand a prayer of getting up.
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Have to disagree BG.
It is not as simple as you would like to think.
The way the administration is structured virtually guarantees that unsecured creditors (including FF holders) will not rank sufficiently to the point where they could change the course of the vote to sell to tesna.
In any case, an alternative vote would certainly close the door on any chance of getting anything in the dollar. That would be pointless.
As far as FLEW and it's operation, that well may contain provisions for redemtion of past FF points.
Sorry to disappoint you.
It is not as simple as you would like to think.
The way the administration is structured virtually guarantees that unsecured creditors (including FF holders) will not rank sufficiently to the point where they could change the course of the vote to sell to tesna.
In any case, an alternative vote would certainly close the door on any chance of getting anything in the dollar. That would be pointless.
As far as FLEW and it's operation, that well may contain provisions for redemtion of past FF points.
Sorry to disappoint you.
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Am I the only person with a very strong suspicion that after Jan 31st, when the capital city AN terminals are safely transferred to a separate company that has NOTHING to do with Tesna except to be its landlord, Lindsay and Solomon will find some ‘perfectly reasonable’ reason not too continue with the establishment of a ‘new’ AN? The AOC will be ‘unreasonably’ delayed by CASA, or the leasing agreements will fall through because of ‘unreasonable’ demands by the lessors, or the ‘unreasonable’ demands by AN staff will force them to reconsider their options – any reason but one that can be laid at Lindsay or Solomon’s feet.
Maybe they’ll even let the operation run for a short time until one of these ‘outside influences’ will cause them to shut the operation down, but my suspicion is that L & S will be left with some prime real estate/leaseholds in their separate company, and everyone else involved, particularly the staff and creditors, with be left with little else but egg on their collective faces.
Maybe they’ll even let the operation run for a short time until one of these ‘outside influences’ will cause them to shut the operation down, but my suspicion is that L & S will be left with some prime real estate/leaseholds in their separate company, and everyone else involved, particularly the staff and creditors, with be left with little else but egg on their collective faces.
Come now Wiley.
You're not suggesting that experienced and successful businessmen would use a bit of corporate pea-and-thimble in order to insulate them and their assets from their liabilities, are you?
You're not suggesting that regulatory decisions are influenced by short-term political interests, are you?
Next thing you'll be telling me the leader of the most powerful country in the world can't watch television, eat pretzels and remain conscious at the same time.
You're not suggesting that experienced and successful businessmen would use a bit of corporate pea-and-thimble in order to insulate them and their assets from their liabilities, are you?
You're not suggesting that regulatory decisions are influenced by short-term political interests, are you?
Next thing you'll be telling me the leader of the most powerful country in the world can't watch television, eat pretzels and remain conscious at the same time.
Bon-Giorno, I think you are kidding yourself if you believe there will be a massive revolt by GR members. Where I work there are 7 people I know of who were large GR point holders. None of them even plan to request a proof of debt form. There was one person who said he'd probably vote but that was a YES for Tesna proposal.
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Well, as a Global rewards holder of several tens of thousands of points I have just joined a class action to get a better deal than the very under valued one that seems to be getting pushed up front by certain interested parties.
<a href="http://www.globalrewardsclassaction.com.au" target="_blank">http://www.globalrewardsclassaction.com.au</a>
<a href="http://www.globalrewardsclassaction.com.au" target="_blank">http://www.globalrewardsclassaction.com.au</a>
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G.Khan,
I presume that you have received a notice about the meeting. Have you lodged a proof of debt, and if so, what $ value did you give your GR points?
I think the GR members who are inclined to vote against the sale to Tesna must be a) happy to lose any and all benefit from those points and b) unaware of the creditor numbers vs $ value and casting vote rules.
If the big $ creditors don't get Tesna over the line, there's something awfully wrong with this example of the praxis of capitalism.
Cheers
I presume that you have received a notice about the meeting. Have you lodged a proof of debt, and if so, what $ value did you give your GR points?
I think the GR members who are inclined to vote against the sale to Tesna must be a) happy to lose any and all benefit from those points and b) unaware of the creditor numbers vs $ value and casting vote rules.
If the big $ creditors don't get Tesna over the line, there's something awfully wrong with this example of the praxis of capitalism.
Cheers
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Personally, I believe that FLEW are putting their cards on the table before they take control of the airline formerly known as Ansett.
No hidden agendas. The assets are to be transferred into separate companies and the "airline" (the leased aircraft) will be left to sink or swim entirely on its own.
If Ansett Mk3 goes down the chute, there will be Absolutely! ZILCH in tangible assets for creditors to access! And the ONLY thing that might have been worth something before - the name "Ansett" - would remain.
So the question after Feb 1 is going to be, "Can Ansett survive solely on pax/freight revenue, and which companies (fuel, travel agents, etc) are going to be willing to let Ansett trade on a credit basis?"
If the owners' (Fox/Lew) action of transferring property to other non-Ansett related companies are any indication of THEIR faith, then perhaps other current Ansett creditors should take a closer, deeper look at their prospects of recovery as well.
No hidden agendas. The assets are to be transferred into separate companies and the "airline" (the leased aircraft) will be left to sink or swim entirely on its own.
If Ansett Mk3 goes down the chute, there will be Absolutely! ZILCH in tangible assets for creditors to access! And the ONLY thing that might have been worth something before - the name "Ansett" - would remain.
So the question after Feb 1 is going to be, "Can Ansett survive solely on pax/freight revenue, and which companies (fuel, travel agents, etc) are going to be willing to let Ansett trade on a credit basis?"
If the owners' (Fox/Lew) action of transferring property to other non-Ansett related companies are any indication of THEIR faith, then perhaps other current Ansett creditors should take a closer, deeper look at their prospects of recovery as well.
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If Lang got hold of AN, the assets would be stripped off and Virgin would be occupying the terminals etc, with no chance of AN starting up again. As a unsecured creditor, I reckon 5c in the dollar is better than no cents.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
From the Rumours and News forum, "UAL to file for Chapter 11 (bankruptcy" comes THIS:. . [quote]Business Week mag is apparently reporting that United has hidden several billion dollars in debt off the books. Their accounting firm is Arthur Anderson<hr></blockquote>
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With regard to the class action for GR holders, it is my understanding after registering an interest with the legal firm handling the action I was advised only those who were 'enticed' to join GR after the date in May 2001when Ansett was deemed to be trading when technically insolvent or having joined after that date, claimed rewards, but was unable to obtain tickets due to the collapse. The rest of the 2.7 million GR holders just line up for your five eighths of one fifth of F#@K all.
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Tuesday January 22, 6:11 PM
Diner Club Australia Calls on Ansett to Revalue Rewards Points
MELBOURNE, Jan 22 Asia Pulse - Diners Club Australia has joined calls for Ansett administrators to revalue almost 70 billion Global Reward points owed to its 300,000 Ansett frequent fliers.. .In a full page advertisement in The Australian today, Diners Club urged its Global Rewards members to sign proxy votes over to the charge card agency so that representatives could push for a better return for members at next week's Ansett creditors meeting.
Administrators this morning said the value of each vote was still undetermined.
Diners Club managing director Bryan Ericson said Global Reward points were significantly undervalued in Ansett's creditors report estimated the 67 billion points at being worth A$140 million (US$72.18 million).
"Diners Club members earned these points in good faith and may have lost many millions of them (each). In addition Diners Club has paid over A$150 million (US$77.34 million) for these points over the years," Mr Ericson said.
Adelaide lawyers representing a class action of frequent fliers are calling for the value of points to be based on value of tickets frequent fliers could have redeemed.
Diners Club, on behalf of its members, would be asking for an explanation of the administrators point-value system at the creditors meeting on January 29, Mr Ericson said.
He said the charge card agency would determine how it would vote on the Ansett sale deal once its discussions with the bidding company, Tesna Holdings, were completed.
"We are in on-going discussions with Tesna regarding its plans for a frequent flyer scheme and remain hopeful the maximum number of Diners Club members will regain value from their previous Global Reward balances," he said.
"Since Diners Club were Ansett's best customers it is crucial that Tesna find a solution for our members if the new Ansett is to have nay chance of success."
Proxy vote forms are available at the Ansett administrators website on <a href="http://www.ansett.com.au.administrator" target="_blank">www.ansett.com.au.administrator</a> and should be faxed to Diners Club and the administrators by 4pm January 24.
ASIA PULSE
Diner Club Australia Calls on Ansett to Revalue Rewards Points
MELBOURNE, Jan 22 Asia Pulse - Diners Club Australia has joined calls for Ansett administrators to revalue almost 70 billion Global Reward points owed to its 300,000 Ansett frequent fliers.. .In a full page advertisement in The Australian today, Diners Club urged its Global Rewards members to sign proxy votes over to the charge card agency so that representatives could push for a better return for members at next week's Ansett creditors meeting.
Administrators this morning said the value of each vote was still undetermined.
Diners Club managing director Bryan Ericson said Global Reward points were significantly undervalued in Ansett's creditors report estimated the 67 billion points at being worth A$140 million (US$72.18 million).
"Diners Club members earned these points in good faith and may have lost many millions of them (each). In addition Diners Club has paid over A$150 million (US$77.34 million) for these points over the years," Mr Ericson said.
Adelaide lawyers representing a class action of frequent fliers are calling for the value of points to be based on value of tickets frequent fliers could have redeemed.
Diners Club, on behalf of its members, would be asking for an explanation of the administrators point-value system at the creditors meeting on January 29, Mr Ericson said.
He said the charge card agency would determine how it would vote on the Ansett sale deal once its discussions with the bidding company, Tesna Holdings, were completed.
"We are in on-going discussions with Tesna regarding its plans for a frequent flyer scheme and remain hopeful the maximum number of Diners Club members will regain value from their previous Global Reward balances," he said.
"Since Diners Club were Ansett's best customers it is crucial that Tesna find a solution for our members if the new Ansett is to have nay chance of success."
Proxy vote forms are available at the Ansett administrators website on <a href="http://www.ansett.com.au.administrator" target="_blank">www.ansett.com.au.administrator</a> and should be faxed to Diners Club and the administrators by 4pm January 24.
ASIA PULSE
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
From "The Australian" newspaper - . ."The Diners Intervention reinforces calls by Adelaide law firm Corsers that the value of the points be based on the retail value of tickets that frequent flyers could have redeemed.. .Mr Atkins (Diners sales and marketing general manager) said the $140 million valued each point at 0.2c, which would make a Sydney-Melbourne return flight of 17,000 points worth just $34. "I haven't seen too many $34 return flights out there so there's something a bit strange about the way it's been valued.""
However, you may recall that just a week or so ago we DID see Ansett advertising $65 flights, and people were asking "WHY".. .All part of the game plan to neutralise the Frequent Flyers - who by the way hold 67 BILLION POINTS!!
[ 22 January 2002: Message edited by: Kaptin M ]</p>
However, you may recall that just a week or so ago we DID see Ansett advertising $65 flights, and people were asking "WHY".. .All part of the game plan to neutralise the Frequent Flyers - who by the way hold 67 BILLION POINTS!!
[ 22 January 2002: Message edited by: Kaptin M ]</p>
