Shy Marshalls & Cockpit Visits
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Shy Marshalls & Cockpit Visits
I have seen reports that QF are looking to Sky Marshalls. In my view this is long overdue, even for domestic passengers,, considering the terror witnessed this week along with increases in air rage.
Should all international flights have sky marshalls - in my view yes & domestic should be random. Guns definitely carried on intl flights plus other devices such as pepper sprays, etc.
I have been a pax on Royal Jordanian - they have guards on board the planes inflight and everyone was searched getting on board the plane - not just the usual checks at the gate.
And the cost - well that will ultimately be worn by the passengers - but who is complaining.
By the way I have been on the flight deck of QF and BA and this is a practice that must be stopped. It is too easy to visit the flight deck and it is a practice that must be stopped immediately.
Should all international flights have sky marshalls - in my view yes & domestic should be random. Guns definitely carried on intl flights plus other devices such as pepper sprays, etc.
I have been a pax on Royal Jordanian - they have guards on board the planes inflight and everyone was searched getting on board the plane - not just the usual checks at the gate.
And the cost - well that will ultimately be worn by the passengers - but who is complaining.
By the way I have been on the flight deck of QF and BA and this is a practice that must be stopped. It is too easy to visit the flight deck and it is a practice that must be stopped immediately.
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I think that if they do have Sky Marshalls the guns should be left behind.
The Terrorist would not need their own weapon, just overpower the Marshall and they have a gun at their disposal. Very dangerous indeed.
Guns should not be allowed in aircraft.
The Terrorist would not need their own weapon, just overpower the Marshall and they have a gun at their disposal. Very dangerous indeed.
Guns should not be allowed in aircraft.
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EFIS,
The El-Al system has been highly effective. They have a mix of overt and covert marshalls on board.
All are highly trained. Most are ex military.
There are plenty of such personnel around if you know where to look.
Bring on the sky marshalls
The El-Al system has been highly effective. They have a mix of overt and covert marshalls on board.
All are highly trained. Most are ex military.
There are plenty of such personnel around if you know where to look.
Bring on the sky marshalls
I agree, leave the sky marshall's guns at home where they belong. Just imagine if the sky marshall takes out a terrorist, and while he leans over the body, the sleeper (one of many) hits him over the head. Then the sleeper terrorist has a weapon.
In the country (relatively civilised one) where I now work, knives, scissors & blades of any length have been banned from domestic flights for over a year now. Also, only passengers are allowed beyond the security checkpoint, which drastically reduces the workload for security. So the terrorists in the states found the weak link in the security chain, and made the most of it.
There are several anit-hijack measures that we as crew can take, but this public forum is not the place to discuss them..
To me, the real long term solution lies in ridding the world of terrorist groups, such as "whats his face" by alienating him from his support groups. As part of the yank's responce, I hope that they look at the inequalities and poverty in the Middle East, and do something constructive about it. Then people won't look at bin laden as a hero, but a criminal. Otherwise, the terrorist problem will be with us for ever and a day!
In the country (relatively civilised one) where I now work, knives, scissors & blades of any length have been banned from domestic flights for over a year now. Also, only passengers are allowed beyond the security checkpoint, which drastically reduces the workload for security. So the terrorists in the states found the weak link in the security chain, and made the most of it.
There are several anit-hijack measures that we as crew can take, but this public forum is not the place to discuss them..
To me, the real long term solution lies in ridding the world of terrorist groups, such as "whats his face" by alienating him from his support groups. As part of the yank's responce, I hope that they look at the inequalities and poverty in the Middle East, and do something constructive about it. Then people won't look at bin laden as a hero, but a criminal. Otherwise, the terrorist problem will be with us for ever and a day!
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In respect to weapons - those that have more sophisticated safety measures are in the piple line such as finger print recognition - so only one of the guards would be able to use it - to anyone else it would not fire. These weapons are becoming available and with types of bullets that explode on impact they are unlikely to go through someone into another passenger.
I also believe that a bullet through a large plane would not result in a major decompression event but more of a slow leak! Not sure if anyone can help on this.
I also believe that a bullet through a large plane would not result in a major decompression event but more of a slow leak! Not sure if anyone can help on this.
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Just for my 2 bob's worth from a pilot and a police firearms instructor's perspective, the EL-Al idea of a couple of "Marshalls" aboard has something to recommend it I suppose. As far as firearms are concerned, I'm not sure about the real answer here. It's not as easy as saying arm this guy or that guy. There are a lot of issues of training, and coming from that area I can tell you that the proficiency and basic training required is huge. (Cost and time.)
That is not to say it can't be done. The Israeli's do, and very well. As to firearms which are "Smart"', i.e. read fingerprints, well not yet. There are several other methods of making firearms "registered user" use only that are available. But very expensive at the moment. Exploding bullets??? No. But the point about decompression is not a valid one. All you will get is a slow leak, in fact given the capacity of the pressurisation systems you probably wouldn't even notice it if you didn't realise there was a hole. Aluminium does not stop or make bullets expand enough to make large holes in aircraft. A hole from a 9 mm round is just that, about 9 mm diameter, no more.
However, the draw back is that there are no guarantees of hitting your target, even the best trained miss too. Where that bullet goes is also a problem, as it will penetrate cockpit walls etc. Not to mention the innocent bystanders etc.
There are no easy solutions here, pepper spray cannot be used in airconditioned environments easily, as the air/con system will pick it up and distribute it throughout the a/c. (The usual filtration system is not fine enough to prevent this. Having been sprayed with the stuff as part of my training, I can assure you that you are in no condition to do anything, let alone fly an aircraft. There are some other developments in this area that may come to the fore in the near future that may help here though. Short answer is there are no easy solutions unfortunately.
Edited for c@@p spelling.
[ 16 September 2001: Message edited by: 29351 ]
That is not to say it can't be done. The Israeli's do, and very well. As to firearms which are "Smart"', i.e. read fingerprints, well not yet. There are several other methods of making firearms "registered user" use only that are available. But very expensive at the moment. Exploding bullets??? No. But the point about decompression is not a valid one. All you will get is a slow leak, in fact given the capacity of the pressurisation systems you probably wouldn't even notice it if you didn't realise there was a hole. Aluminium does not stop or make bullets expand enough to make large holes in aircraft. A hole from a 9 mm round is just that, about 9 mm diameter, no more.
However, the draw back is that there are no guarantees of hitting your target, even the best trained miss too. Where that bullet goes is also a problem, as it will penetrate cockpit walls etc. Not to mention the innocent bystanders etc.
There are no easy solutions here, pepper spray cannot be used in airconditioned environments easily, as the air/con system will pick it up and distribute it throughout the a/c. (The usual filtration system is not fine enough to prevent this. Having been sprayed with the stuff as part of my training, I can assure you that you are in no condition to do anything, let alone fly an aircraft. There are some other developments in this area that may come to the fore in the near future that may help here though. Short answer is there are no easy solutions unfortunately.
Edited for c@@p spelling.
[ 16 September 2001: Message edited by: 29351 ]
Almost 150 yrs. ago, President Lincoln found it necessary to hire a private investigator - Mr. Alan Pinkerton. He was actually the beginning . .of the Secret Service.
Since that time US federal police authority has grown to a large number of three-letter agencies - FBI, CIA, INS, IRS, DEA, BATF, SS, ATF, etc . .Now comes a proposal for another agency: The "Federal Air Transportation Airport Security Service."
Can't you see it now, the new service in their black outfits with their initials in large white letters across their backs?
. .
Since that time US federal police authority has grown to a large number of three-letter agencies - FBI, CIA, INS, IRS, DEA, BATF, SS, ATF, etc . .Now comes a proposal for another agency: The "Federal Air Transportation Airport Security Service."
Can't you see it now, the new service in their black outfits with their initials in large white letters across their backs?
. .
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Cuba had the best idea in the 60's and early 70's, put two guards at the front of the cabin with submachine guns. When someone looked like they were making for the cockpit, these two guards shot everyone. After a couple of times, the other passengers would beat the hijackers to death.
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Hey, Ace. I resemble that remark!
No offence taken, provided you enlighten me on that E.L.A. (Eight Letter Abbreviation). <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
Like Rick wrote: Let God sort 'em out.....
No offence taken, provided you enlighten me on that E.L.A. (Eight Letter Abbreviation). <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
Like Rick wrote: Let God sort 'em out.....
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Quite a few overseas operators have had "Sky Marshalls/Sky Guards'etc" for many years and had no problem with the system. There is one essential difference with these established systems and the new system here in Oz and that is that the Governments pay the guards/marshalls and they also pay either full or 50ID for the personal to travel so as not to effect the profitability of the operators.
Therefore my opinion is that I have no problem with the system as long as the government pays 100%
Have a nice day <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
Therefore my opinion is that I have no problem with the system as long as the government pays 100%
Have a nice day <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
