Just HOW mucked-up is ANSETT ?!
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
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Just HOW mucked-up is ANSETT ?!
After a month away from here (north of the Equator) spent lying on the beach at the Gold Coast, and a couple of weeks in N.Z. - thanks for the ride home, Smithy and Keg (nice greaser into BNE btw) - I had the opportunity to catch up with some of the Virgin boys and quite a few '89 mates, as well as some current (non pilot) AN employees. Those I spoke to ARE concerned about their future - currently they are working only 4 hour days - and believe that Ansett Mach 2 will fold post election.
And is it any wonder? The following anecdote happened less than a week ago:
An ex-Ansett, long time acquaintance flies for CX, SYD based and living in BNE. After arriving back in SYD, he went to QANTAS to buy a ticket but found that ALL of their flights were fully booked for the rest of the day, with passenger queues out to the footpath.
Likewise Virgin Blue.
As a last resort, he went across to Anscab to find a almost empty terminal and NO queues. Resigned to the fact that AN now held the best (and probably ONLY) chance for him to get home that day he asked if there were any seats available SYD-BNE.
"Yes sir!" was the reply, "we have a flight departing in 40 minutes, if you'd like to go on that one."
With the feeling that AN now had a firm grasp of his private parts, my mate ventured the inevitable "Okay - how much?".
What would you expect to pay for a one way ticket? $300? $400?
No sir, the answer was an AMAZING $99!!!
$99, for a seat on an airline that has already collapsed from financial mismanagement, and is calling for Government assistance (read YOUR money) to continue operating.
Once onboard, he then found that the load factor was well below 50%. It would appear that Ansett has lost the public's confidence, and is it any wonder? It doesn't take any grey matter to realise that Ansett can have NO hope of making a come back - let alone break even - selling such ridiculously low priced seats.
More to the point, it is an unnecessary burden on Australians to support such a financiually inept company!
And is it any wonder? The following anecdote happened less than a week ago:
An ex-Ansett, long time acquaintance flies for CX, SYD based and living in BNE. After arriving back in SYD, he went to QANTAS to buy a ticket but found that ALL of their flights were fully booked for the rest of the day, with passenger queues out to the footpath.
Likewise Virgin Blue.
As a last resort, he went across to Anscab to find a almost empty terminal and NO queues. Resigned to the fact that AN now held the best (and probably ONLY) chance for him to get home that day he asked if there were any seats available SYD-BNE.
"Yes sir!" was the reply, "we have a flight departing in 40 minutes, if you'd like to go on that one."
With the feeling that AN now had a firm grasp of his private parts, my mate ventured the inevitable "Okay - how much?".
What would you expect to pay for a one way ticket? $300? $400?
No sir, the answer was an AMAZING $99!!!
$99, for a seat on an airline that has already collapsed from financial mismanagement, and is calling for Government assistance (read YOUR money) to continue operating.
Once onboard, he then found that the load factor was well below 50%. It would appear that Ansett has lost the public's confidence, and is it any wonder? It doesn't take any grey matter to realise that Ansett can have NO hope of making a come back - let alone break even - selling such ridiculously low priced seats.
More to the point, it is an unnecessary burden on Australians to support such a financiually inept company!
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Capt M,
If your mate was to travel syd-mel on my most recent trip he would have found it very hard to find a seat, in all four sectors we had a 92% load factor. Not bad for a start up airline...
If your mate was to travel syd-mel on my most recent trip he would have found it very hard to find a seat, in all four sectors we had a 92% load factor. Not bad for a start up airline...
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I don't see exactly what the animosity is towards Kaptain M here. He makes what seems like a valid point. How does an airline that was/is 2 billion dollars in dept and in the hands of an administrator expect to survive charging so little for its seats. Its not quite like starting from a clean slate.
Very interesting post that one. Ansett Mk 2 has never had $99 walkup airfares they were only available as a special to begin with for internet bookings. If you check out the internet the cheapest you'll find on the current day are one way fares of $198 dollars.
[ 04 November 2001: Message edited by: puff ]
[ 04 November 2001: Message edited by: puff ]
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Welcome back kaptin m,
This thread should have been named "Just HOW mucked up is Kaptin M" as your first offering after your months break shows you truly are in a sorrier state now than before you left. (If that is at all possible) It has been a pleasure to log onto PPRuNe for the past month for a good exchange of info and ideas and hardly a mention of 8? and without the claptrap that eminates from your keyboard.
It is a pity that your continued hatred for AN gets in the way of the true facts of what is really happening and if you are really interested in the truth try logging on to the AN website and check out the real fares. (Considerably higher than those you quoted) and as to your load factors, once again your clouded view seems to block out the correct numbers.
I am sure the entire 16000 AN staff are behind your attempts to once again spread your hatred and do your best to see them out of work. Your only correct statement was for the first week most staff got 4 hours work but that fortunately is steadily increasing.
The one thing we are all grateful of is that if you and your bunch of merry men had got your way in that fateful year we would all have been out of a job many years ago as AN had no hope at all of survival under a contract that was almost unworkable and was openly admitted at the time by most as a joke that we had got away with it for so long.
This thread should have been named "Just HOW mucked up is Kaptin M" as your first offering after your months break shows you truly are in a sorrier state now than before you left. (If that is at all possible) It has been a pleasure to log onto PPRuNe for the past month for a good exchange of info and ideas and hardly a mention of 8? and without the claptrap that eminates from your keyboard.
It is a pity that your continued hatred for AN gets in the way of the true facts of what is really happening and if you are really interested in the truth try logging on to the AN website and check out the real fares. (Considerably higher than those you quoted) and as to your load factors, once again your clouded view seems to block out the correct numbers.
I am sure the entire 16000 AN staff are behind your attempts to once again spread your hatred and do your best to see them out of work. Your only correct statement was for the first week most staff got 4 hours work but that fortunately is steadily increasing.
The one thing we are all grateful of is that if you and your bunch of merry men had got your way in that fateful year we would all have been out of a job many years ago as AN had no hope at all of survival under a contract that was almost unworkable and was openly admitted at the time by most as a joke that we had got away with it for so long.
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The one thing is still dont understand is that it is ok to travel qantas but not ansett, didnt qantas and australian airlines merge. if i remember right australian airlines were also involved in 89.
did the merger wash away their sins?
did the merger wash away their sins?
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Sorry if this account doesn't tie in with yours puff, however I am quoting what was told first hand to me, verbatim. I have not embellished or altered it in any way. Possibly there may be Ansett staff who are able to "arrange" such fares to try to fill seats. If so they are doing a DIS-service to Ansett.
Pole Tugger, it is YOU who needs to get a life - my 4 1/2 weeks of leave was spent enjoying life with my family and friends, something you and your ilk are desperately short of.
Having been forced into the position (that) you and the other 15,999 Ansett staff now find themselves, by the actions of "the heroes of '89", in 1989, I and my colleagues are no strangers to your collective predicament - we received little support then, and offer the same in return, perhaps because the Federation back THEN distributed pamphlets asking "Who will be next?" (to have their right of workplace representation denied)!
The pilots, through the AFAP, worked successfully for a profitable Ansett for almost 30 years - it took only a little more than 10 years for the scabs to destroy Ansett and the lives of its employees.
Pole Tugger, it is YOU who needs to get a life - my 4 1/2 weeks of leave was spent enjoying life with my family and friends, something you and your ilk are desperately short of.
Having been forced into the position (that) you and the other 15,999 Ansett staff now find themselves, by the actions of "the heroes of '89", in 1989, I and my colleagues are no strangers to your collective predicament - we received little support then, and offer the same in return, perhaps because the Federation back THEN distributed pamphlets asking "Who will be next?" (to have their right of workplace representation denied)!
The pilots, through the AFAP, worked successfully for a profitable Ansett for almost 30 years - it took only a little more than 10 years for the scabs to destroy Ansett and the lives of its employees.
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It will be interesting to see just what happens after 10th November.
On the subject of load factors, I have seen flights where the load factors have been down around the 25% mark (S.A. routes).
On the subject of load factors, I have seen flights where the load factors have been down around the 25% mark (S.A. routes).
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Tut tut kap,
You and your kind are never willing to accept the truth that "The Contract" had become a joke and the 30 years of profitibility was due to a regulated society that when the airlines paid out more in wages up went the fares to pay the bills. Of course you remember that well dont you?
We had the Reserve professionals that had and used there numbers to bid Reserve month after month and fly once in 35 days to stay current. We could go on and on about the abuses but we don't like to talk about those do we kap? What a joke. Do you really believe any airline could survive in this day age with the rubbish in that document. Come on wake up and try to stop living in the past. Fortunately most the group that elected not to return in that year accepted the fact that the AFAP stuffed up but the slower ones still talk their funny language eg. S*abs and heros etc. You my misinformed one, is the "TUGGER"
Wake up, Get over it.
You and your kind are never willing to accept the truth that "The Contract" had become a joke and the 30 years of profitibility was due to a regulated society that when the airlines paid out more in wages up went the fares to pay the bills. Of course you remember that well dont you?
We had the Reserve professionals that had and used there numbers to bid Reserve month after month and fly once in 35 days to stay current. We could go on and on about the abuses but we don't like to talk about those do we kap? What a joke. Do you really believe any airline could survive in this day age with the rubbish in that document. Come on wake up and try to stop living in the past. Fortunately most the group that elected not to return in that year accepted the fact that the AFAP stuffed up but the slower ones still talk their funny language eg. S*abs and heros etc. You my misinformed one, is the "TUGGER"
Wake up, Get over it.
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EFIS
Its only been 3 days on ADL and advertised for one week prior, what would you expect.
Most of our customers have commented on how they have been fleeced by the white rat and have only booked ahead because there has been no choice. Iam sure our LOYAL customers will return in droves...
Its only been 3 days on ADL and advertised for one week prior, what would you expect.
Most of our customers have commented on how they have been fleeced by the white rat and have only booked ahead because there has been no choice. Iam sure our LOYAL customers will return in droves...
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If you buy a return fare the likely price is going to be $198 return. At the moment $220 was the going one way price last time I checked.
Had a look at the pricing for Sydney-Melbourne yesterday for 4-November
MEL-SYD Virgin Blue $184.00 on all there flights.
MEL-SYD Ansett all listed at $220.00 one way, I think it would have been cheaper to buy a return ticket, although they come with restrictions.
MEL-SYD Qantas had the 12pm to 2;30pm all listed at $77.00 plus tax. unbelievable.
I think Ansett adminstrators need to re-examine their pricing policies.
Had a look at the pricing for Sydney-Melbourne yesterday for 4-November
MEL-SYD Virgin Blue $184.00 on all there flights.
MEL-SYD Ansett all listed at $220.00 one way, I think it would have been cheaper to buy a return ticket, although they come with restrictions.
MEL-SYD Qantas had the 12pm to 2;30pm all listed at $77.00 plus tax. unbelievable.
I think Ansett adminstrators need to re-examine their pricing policies.
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Ah the blue bird of happiness returns!
If you can believe the administrators.
1. ANmkII is worth more flying then parked. Sure I will go along with that.
2. Operating costs are now near Virgin Blue> possibly only time will tell.
3. Virgin Blue is also being subsidised by the government. Interesting, if they are so well run why?
4. The administrators have more managerial nouse than the previous managers. Not much you can argue with there...
5. It would be hard to put blame on any of the Pilots etc for the detioration of AN over the last ten years from a business perspective. That blame lies at board level through the years.
If you can believe the administrators.
1. ANmkII is worth more flying then parked. Sure I will go along with that.
2. Operating costs are now near Virgin Blue> possibly only time will tell.
3. Virgin Blue is also being subsidised by the government. Interesting, if they are so well run why?
4. The administrators have more managerial nouse than the previous managers. Not much you can argue with there...
5. It would be hard to put blame on any of the Pilots etc for the detioration of AN over the last ten years from a business perspective. That blame lies at board level through the years.
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Niceone,
I should of been more specific. I was refering to the regional routes that Kendell are doing. KD have been back up and running for a little while now.
Cheers,
Capt EFIS.
I should of been more specific. I was refering to the regional routes that Kendell are doing. KD have been back up and running for a little while now.
Cheers,
Capt EFIS.
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Kaptin Maaaaaate!
I think i'm gunna have to tap you on the shoulder.It's time for you to hang up the gloves
old man.Yes it's time for you to retire,you
are a has-been,and a fairly bitter and twisted
one at that.Maybe you should hang out at an
aero-club and tell your "warries" to other
has-beens,who might be remotely interested.
1989:I'll tell you the story mate.
If a vital part of national infrastructue is
shut,the government is obliged to act ,and if
need be act ruthlessly.The domestic pilots who resigned were generally held in contempt
by the public(jobs lost ,buisnesses broke,holidays cancelled,etc etc etc).The domestic pilots were blinded a sense of over-importance,invunerability,a sense that they
were "irreplaceable".A wise man knows that
anyone no matter how skilled can be replaced.
Playing in the big league can be exciting,but you either win big or lose big.You stepped up to the plate and played the game but you lost,and you lost bigtime.
Yet 12 years on you bleat,and cry like a little girl because all those years ago you
decided to play.
[ 04 November 2001: Message edited by: freemantle2002 ]
I think i'm gunna have to tap you on the shoulder.It's time for you to hang up the gloves
old man.Yes it's time for you to retire,you
are a has-been,and a fairly bitter and twisted
one at that.Maybe you should hang out at an
aero-club and tell your "warries" to other
has-beens,who might be remotely interested.
1989:I'll tell you the story mate.
If a vital part of national infrastructue is
shut,the government is obliged to act ,and if
need be act ruthlessly.The domestic pilots who resigned were generally held in contempt
by the public(jobs lost ,buisnesses broke,holidays cancelled,etc etc etc).The domestic pilots were blinded a sense of over-importance,invunerability,a sense that they
were "irreplaceable".A wise man knows that
anyone no matter how skilled can be replaced.
Playing in the big league can be exciting,but you either win big or lose big.You stepped up to the plate and played the game but you lost,and you lost bigtime.
Yet 12 years on you bleat,and cry like a little girl because all those years ago you
decided to play.
[ 04 November 2001: Message edited by: freemantle2002 ]
Ok you lot back in your boxes.
What the **** would you know/understand about 89? where you involved? I'll bet not. If you were then I'll bet a months wage you are a scab and anything you say can be taken with a grain of salt.
I was a young 2 year F/O in Ansett in 89 and boy it was not an easy time I'll tell you.
But I'm glad it worked out the way it did!!
As for the scabs? we will never forget you lot. ( or employ you )
I received $43000 per year as a 737 F/O, after they went crawling back to the Company the scabs were paid over double that. And later they were given a nice little car!! But it all doesn't matter now hey.
We will never forget.
And don't tell me to get a life and ****** off. I've actually done very well because of the dispute and have no chip on my shoulder.
So thanks to the scabs for changing my life and opening my eyes to the world ( and the 747-400!! )
cheers boys.
p.s. I have travelled Ansett a lot since 89 and hope they keep going in some form or other, but as for the out of work scabs........
[ 04 November 2001: Message edited by: ACMS ]
What the **** would you know/understand about 89? where you involved? I'll bet not. If you were then I'll bet a months wage you are a scab and anything you say can be taken with a grain of salt.
I was a young 2 year F/O in Ansett in 89 and boy it was not an easy time I'll tell you.
But I'm glad it worked out the way it did!!
As for the scabs? we will never forget you lot. ( or employ you )
I received $43000 per year as a 737 F/O, after they went crawling back to the Company the scabs were paid over double that. And later they were given a nice little car!! But it all doesn't matter now hey.
We will never forget.
And don't tell me to get a life and ****** off. I've actually done very well because of the dispute and have no chip on my shoulder.
So thanks to the scabs for changing my life and opening my eyes to the world ( and the 747-400!! )
cheers boys.
p.s. I have travelled Ansett a lot since 89 and hope they keep going in some form or other, but as for the out of work scabs........
[ 04 November 2001: Message edited by: ACMS ]
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With VERY FEW exceptions of load factors above 50%, most flights are departing with occupancy around 25-35%, much lower than the 62% quoted to make money. And at those fares?
As for returning "loyal customers," most travellers on AN are backpackers and others not relying on a maintained schedule. Seen any corporate ticketholders lately? That will be AN's ultimate demise - the loss of the high yield travellers who require reliability. Sorry, folks, but it'll all be over after 10 November.
As for returning "loyal customers," most travellers on AN are backpackers and others not relying on a maintained schedule. Seen any corporate ticketholders lately? That will be AN's ultimate demise - the loss of the high yield travellers who require reliability. Sorry, folks, but it'll all be over after 10 November.
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You mentioned reliability.
One thing you can't criticise AN II for is reliability. If you look at any of the major airports' online arrivals/departure pages, you will note that in the vast majority of occasions the AN flights depart and arrive a few minutes EARLY. In fact a couple of weeks ago I was looking at the MEL site which listed EVERY Qantas and Virgin flight as departing a couple of minutes up to one hour late and EVERY Ansett flight departing early.
Sure, AN has an advantage (fewer pax, fewer flights, single, reliable a/c type etc) but if I were in a position to need to get somewhere on time, I would be flying Ansett.
One thing you can't criticise AN II for is reliability. If you look at any of the major airports' online arrivals/departure pages, you will note that in the vast majority of occasions the AN flights depart and arrive a few minutes EARLY. In fact a couple of weeks ago I was looking at the MEL site which listed EVERY Qantas and Virgin flight as departing a couple of minutes up to one hour late and EVERY Ansett flight departing early.
Sure, AN has an advantage (fewer pax, fewer flights, single, reliable a/c type etc) but if I were in a position to need to get somewhere on time, I would be flying Ansett.