NT Wet Season
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NT Wet Season
Reference HA locked topic and the questions relating to "whats the big deal with the wet season".
I don't think it is the flying in cloud/weather that is of concern, at least it wasn't for me, it was the local knowledge.
Most of the runways are dirt/grave/not sealed.
Alot of the above have nothing or little in the way of reporting procedures and even if they do it can change at short notice. TS etc
There are ****** all navaids. DN, TN, TNK, AS, AYE, VRD, MHU, GTE, GV, MGD,BRL,HOO maybe one or two more thats just from memory are the only ones in the territory.
As is normal Aus/world wide you are required to carry max payload = min fuel.
Put all this together and someone who has local wet season knowledge who is sent to a remote runway that has recently been subject to a torrential wet season downpoor is most likely to know the condition of the said runway and if it is unlikely to be serviceable then a suitable alternate close by. Diverting around TS most of the way without the benifit of the navaids that are so frequent down south. Makes sense to me to hire someone who's seen it all before!
I don't think it is the flying in cloud/weather that is of concern, at least it wasn't for me, it was the local knowledge.
Most of the runways are dirt/grave/not sealed.
Alot of the above have nothing or little in the way of reporting procedures and even if they do it can change at short notice. TS etc
There are ****** all navaids. DN, TN, TNK, AS, AYE, VRD, MHU, GTE, GV, MGD,BRL,HOO maybe one or two more thats just from memory are the only ones in the territory.
As is normal Aus/world wide you are required to carry max payload = min fuel.
Put all this together and someone who has local wet season knowledge who is sent to a remote runway that has recently been subject to a torrential wet season downpoor is most likely to know the condition of the said runway and if it is unlikely to be serviceable then a suitable alternate close by. Diverting around TS most of the way without the benifit of the navaids that are so frequent down south. Makes sense to me to hire someone who's seen it all before!
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Top End wet season. So what's it all about? What's so different to what you learned in Moorabbin or Bankstown ? At least 3 pilot's have departed this life in the last 3 years in Australia after dealing with "what's the big deal with Top End "Wet Season", all had M/E CIR (A) and all were commercial pilots. There have been others too, can't recall all. What is different is that you can't rely on being visual at your destination at MSA/LSALT, your destination most likely does not have a published approach and you may not be able to land as already posted. Tropical wet season thunderstorms typically have a base of 500 to 800 feet, they form up as clusters of cells about 3nm in diameter and maybe 3 to 5 nm apart. They form rapidly in the hot moist unstable atmosphere, are very intense for a little while then move on and dissipate rapidly. To get to your destination you will need to be below the base and clear of the cell, probably at 500' agl, orbiting and holding while waiting and trying to orient yourself with what features you can recognise. You may have woven your way through the clusters of cells only to find that the door has just shut behind you as the unstable atmosphere spawns yet another cell. Fortunately we only have to endure this for 2, sometimes three months of the year. If you think this is all "a piece of **** " don't try it with passengers who might think you know what you're doing.
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Balindaaaaa - manymak ??
Wet season time is not necessarily IMC time, because Wet season flying is really about marginal VMC circuits, not enroute IMC. (For enroute IMC someone can tell 'The story of KUZ..' <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> ; for enroute VMC nav see 'swivel neck').
Wet season comes down to low level circling approaches, ie., a flat perspective, at non navaid gravel strips that in rain with trees around them, and/or not many visual ref features, give you SFA visual info. You also won't get any more visual info and orientation by staring through a wet side window at a grey slice in the grey trees with maybe a grey road and a couple of grey roofs nearby. People do stare at it though and of course close up the circuit !
Its a lot harder than one at night down south with a navaid and lights for circuit orientation.
Its a true low circling approach which needs really only a fix over the rwy and a compass, and if HA asked for Wet time then he knows thats what he's going to get.
Landing in rain ? Ok, rain. 1 mile on final and its a bit of rain. Easy, just like that day at Dubbo. At 20'/90 kts you have zero vis, as in grey butcher's paper over the windscreen, plus are getting into the big downdraft that came with the rain. Monsoon rain is fire hose grade and a big dump is non flyable in the circuit. Not happy !
Rwy surface. Operating retract aircraft on muddy gravel or gravely mud means crap getting into gear mechanisms and the pilot has to get just as muddy to clean them out every sector, and increased rolling friction plus high temps/humidity equals more TODR. None of which you are going to see so much of even on grass strips down south.
Worst case. Eg. from memory.. YRNG, bulk rain, bulk funeral trips, reduced length SWS, strip torn up by numerous funeral pax trips, strip shredded by Airmed Kingair, strip thoroughly F*(kt by ARO on a grader. Left the gear down and hosed it off later.
Enroute. Wet wx is in clumps not layers (much) so you have more chance of getting around it if visual blw LSALT. Take it from someone that mistook dark blue cloud in rain for dark blue sky in rain, and so flew into it...., on his 3rd Wet season, that visual illusions are there and waiting....(and wasn't that fun..)
Pax. Sitting in the office drinking tea waiting patiently for their chtr ? No, more likely spread all over the 'terminal' with 50% extra people and bags, waiting for Ol Michael to come out (at precisely 4:15pm he said) with the rest of the chuddarr muni so they can ply. And its going to be two trips not one. Add this to all the above..
Last light. Effectively sooner due general gloom. 20,000' of wet cloud makes a good light sponge.
'Wet season' - a couple of words that mean a lot if you've had the pleasure. Like Balinda said, it means local knowledge but of 'what' as well as of 'where'.
Also, February is usually the worst bit of it and that what he'll be flying in.
Its no big deal if you're sensible. The big plus is no terrain.
Cheers to all nowee wawa's !
-----------------------
Regards Rene
<a href="http://www.insider_trading_is_a_bitch.com.au" target="_blank">www.insider_trading_is_a_bitch.com.au</a>
Wet season time is not necessarily IMC time, because Wet season flying is really about marginal VMC circuits, not enroute IMC. (For enroute IMC someone can tell 'The story of KUZ..' <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> ; for enroute VMC nav see 'swivel neck').
Wet season comes down to low level circling approaches, ie., a flat perspective, at non navaid gravel strips that in rain with trees around them, and/or not many visual ref features, give you SFA visual info. You also won't get any more visual info and orientation by staring through a wet side window at a grey slice in the grey trees with maybe a grey road and a couple of grey roofs nearby. People do stare at it though and of course close up the circuit !
Its a lot harder than one at night down south with a navaid and lights for circuit orientation.
Its a true low circling approach which needs really only a fix over the rwy and a compass, and if HA asked for Wet time then he knows thats what he's going to get.
Landing in rain ? Ok, rain. 1 mile on final and its a bit of rain. Easy, just like that day at Dubbo. At 20'/90 kts you have zero vis, as in grey butcher's paper over the windscreen, plus are getting into the big downdraft that came with the rain. Monsoon rain is fire hose grade and a big dump is non flyable in the circuit. Not happy !
Rwy surface. Operating retract aircraft on muddy gravel or gravely mud means crap getting into gear mechanisms and the pilot has to get just as muddy to clean them out every sector, and increased rolling friction plus high temps/humidity equals more TODR. None of which you are going to see so much of even on grass strips down south.
Worst case. Eg. from memory.. YRNG, bulk rain, bulk funeral trips, reduced length SWS, strip torn up by numerous funeral pax trips, strip shredded by Airmed Kingair, strip thoroughly F*(kt by ARO on a grader. Left the gear down and hosed it off later.
Enroute. Wet wx is in clumps not layers (much) so you have more chance of getting around it if visual blw LSALT. Take it from someone that mistook dark blue cloud in rain for dark blue sky in rain, and so flew into it...., on his 3rd Wet season, that visual illusions are there and waiting....(and wasn't that fun..)
Pax. Sitting in the office drinking tea waiting patiently for their chtr ? No, more likely spread all over the 'terminal' with 50% extra people and bags, waiting for Ol Michael to come out (at precisely 4:15pm he said) with the rest of the chuddarr muni so they can ply. And its going to be two trips not one. Add this to all the above..
Last light. Effectively sooner due general gloom. 20,000' of wet cloud makes a good light sponge.
'Wet season' - a couple of words that mean a lot if you've had the pleasure. Like Balinda said, it means local knowledge but of 'what' as well as of 'where'.
Also, February is usually the worst bit of it and that what he'll be flying in.
Its no big deal if you're sensible. The big plus is no terrain.
Cheers to all nowee wawa's !
-----------------------
Regards Rene
<a href="http://www.insider_trading_is_a_bitch.com.au" target="_blank">www.insider_trading_is_a_bitch.com.au</a>
From Remote Alaska to Bankstown Circuit to Millingimbi to Lagos every area has its own issues these may be Ice, Heat, Wildlife, Thunderstorms, Terrain, Civil Wars etc. etc.
To say that one area is more demanding than another is petty and a waste of time.
Each area requires a learning curve. I am sure that the best of the bush pilots in Alaska would face a few challenges adapting to the Top End, and vice versa.
To say that one area is more demanding than another is petty and a waste of time.
Each area requires a learning curve. I am sure that the best of the bush pilots in Alaska would face a few challenges adapting to the Top End, and vice versa.
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Stallie
Interesting that you mention Millingimbi and civil wars in the same paragraph!
A doctor, 2 nurses & three health workers were bailed up a couple of days ago while an angry crowd pelted the clinic with rocks & whatever else they could find.
One of the health workers (bravely) confronted the crowd & they eventually backed off. <img src="eek.gif" border="0">
NT constabulary were flown in from KTR to sort out the melee but this was from the NT News so who knows what the story really was. <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
Btw, didn't get a chance to sample the Eaglehawk Merlot on Mon. Pity coz I had the 600ml coke bottle at the ready. <img src="redface.gif" border="0">
'Rene'
Yu! Long time no hear buddy, love your top end tales! Still got that slim pack parachute & the professional sense of paranoia? <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">
[ 18 January 2002: Message edited by: Miss Behaviour ]</p>
Interesting that you mention Millingimbi and civil wars in the same paragraph!
A doctor, 2 nurses & three health workers were bailed up a couple of days ago while an angry crowd pelted the clinic with rocks & whatever else they could find.
One of the health workers (bravely) confronted the crowd & they eventually backed off. <img src="eek.gif" border="0">
NT constabulary were flown in from KTR to sort out the melee but this was from the NT News so who knows what the story really was. <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
Btw, didn't get a chance to sample the Eaglehawk Merlot on Mon. Pity coz I had the 600ml coke bottle at the ready. <img src="redface.gif" border="0">
'Rene'
Yu! Long time no hear buddy, love your top end tales! Still got that slim pack parachute & the professional sense of paranoia? <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">
[ 18 January 2002: Message edited by: Miss Behaviour ]</p>
Miss B - good to see your fair feet flitting through these hallowed halls once more! It still has me gobsmacked - free wine at a Darwin public function! 
Millingimbi this week, Borroloola next week.
These are the days of our lives. It is another world out there. Where the hell do you even start trying to explain those shenanigans to Mexicans? <img src="eek.gif" border="0">
[ 18 January 2002: Message edited by: compressor stall ]</p>
Millingimbi this week, Borroloola next week.
These are the days of our lives. It is another world out there. Where the hell do you even start trying to explain those shenanigans to Mexicans? <img src="eek.gif" border="0">
[ 18 January 2002: Message edited by: compressor stall ]</p>
Rene. You mentioned a airmed Kingair that was shredded at YRNG. Request further details on that accident please. Was it single or two crew - night or day and what were the circumstances and when. Much appreciated in advance.
Um, unless I have misread it thrice, the STRIP was shredded, not the aircraft!
Those dry red oxide crusts can hide a lot of soggy stuff beneath!
[ 18 January 2002: Message edited by: compressor stall ]</p>
Those dry red oxide crusts can hide a lot of soggy stuff beneath!
[ 18 January 2002: Message edited by: compressor stall ]</p>
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Stallie... I agree completely. Anyone who has flown a wet season in the Top End isn't necessarily cut-out to fly in PNG. The vice versa is also certainly true too. Every place really does have its own issues ... I doubt if I'd know what to do if there wasn't a bloodey great mountain or smouldering volcano confronting me on take-off.
Most operators here are looking for blokes who've been round the traps before, in preference to those who haven't. Thus I can understand why HA would want folks who've done it all before.
Mind you, there are parts of PNG that are very flat and get lots of rain on the often soft, natural surface strips that are so common throughout the country. I well remember a flight from Kiunga to Bensbach ... a helluva long way over flat, featureless terrain, at ... errm ... 500 feet. Just as well there was a river to guide me to Bensbach strip, where a very close, if somewhat abbreviated low level circuit was essential. The subsequent landing was still a slippy, slidey, slushy affair that had me wondering why acquaplaning isn't an Olympic sport! <img src="eek.gif" border="0">
Most operators here are looking for blokes who've been round the traps before, in preference to those who haven't. Thus I can understand why HA would want folks who've done it all before.
Mind you, there are parts of PNG that are very flat and get lots of rain on the often soft, natural surface strips that are so common throughout the country. I well remember a flight from Kiunga to Bensbach ... a helluva long way over flat, featureless terrain, at ... errm ... 500 feet. Just as well there was a river to guide me to Bensbach strip, where a very close, if somewhat abbreviated low level circuit was essential. The subsequent landing was still a slippy, slidey, slushy affair that had me wondering why acquaplaning isn't an Olympic sport! <img src="eek.gif" border="0">
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But where else in the world can you get overnight charters into communities like Elcho Island eh brudda? 'Im community got all dem dog waltz around eh? Good for cook on da big flame.
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Centarus
KingAirs one, strip nil. The two wheel axle's sidewall spacing causes mud to squeeze up between the wheels to form a crest, as well as form the usual wheel ruts on each side of the crest, and the end result is a *&#$% if its allowed to dry out. Sort of like stage one of the Berserk Bumcrack Smother Hold in nude mud wrestling.
Miss B ! Your email doesn't work .... send me something (food, money, you know..).
That slim pack ? No, I haven't seen her for a while <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
(Yeah when was the last time you were test pilot/guinea pig for a rebuilt Pitts !? <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> )
Compressor stall
How do you explain....? Sitting on the Nightcliff Jetty getting rid of Crownies and Barra while watching the lightning light up Cb's 8 miles high is a start. Thats what HA really means by Wet season experience. Those GA hard yards, mate <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> .
Flying ? ?
OzExpat Is Bensbach operating again or are they still having a dispute with the 'majority shareholders' ?
--------------------
Regards Rene
<a href="http://www.insider_trading_is_a_bitch.com.au" target="_blank">www.insider_trading_is_a_bitch.com.au</a>
KingAirs one, strip nil. The two wheel axle's sidewall spacing causes mud to squeeze up between the wheels to form a crest, as well as form the usual wheel ruts on each side of the crest, and the end result is a *&#$% if its allowed to dry out. Sort of like stage one of the Berserk Bumcrack Smother Hold in nude mud wrestling.
Miss B ! Your email doesn't work .... send me something (food, money, you know..).
That slim pack ? No, I haven't seen her for a while <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
(Yeah when was the last time you were test pilot/guinea pig for a rebuilt Pitts !? <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> )
Compressor stall
How do you explain....? Sitting on the Nightcliff Jetty getting rid of Crownies and Barra while watching the lightning light up Cb's 8 miles high is a start. Thats what HA really means by Wet season experience. Those GA hard yards, mate <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> .
Flying ? ?
OzExpat Is Bensbach operating again or are they still having a dispute with the 'majority shareholders' ?
--------------------
Regards Rene
<a href="http://www.insider_trading_is_a_bitch.com.au" target="_blank">www.insider_trading_is_a_bitch.com.au</a>
PPRuNeaholic
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RR ... I can't answer that question, as I haven't been there in ... well, far too long! Maybe someone else, with more recent info, is lurking around here. Had to consult my logbook to find out when I did the particular flight and it really was a long time ago ... no GPS or any bloodey thing... <img src="eek.gif" border="0">
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Back in the days before fancy gadgets like GPS and wx radar all we had was 1/60 and clock and compass. You had DN VOR until you ran out of VHF range. DN NDB wasnt worth a pinch of cockey-sh!t on a stormey night. If you were off-track you plotted the last known radial/DME on your WAC (VECS and RNCs were useless as bulls t!ts). At night it was so bloodey dark only your 1/60 and WAC got you out of serious trouble. A good trick for working out where the imbedded CBs were was to tune the ADFs down to its lowest freq, listen to the loudest crackle over your head-set then look at the needle. It indicated the direction of the lightning which hopefuly was located at the centre of the cell. A lot of times it was a bolt from the side so unintended penetration of CBs were quite common. Scared the sh!t out of me more than once. But I always found a better ride through TS at 5000ft or below (minimum about 2000ft or the rotor would clobber you). This you could do almost all the time except if you found yourself over the Top-End "watershed" where TS flying below 5000ft was a bloodey dangerous idea!
Prop-wash dont speak too soon mate! Youve yet to have the full force of the Wet hit you in Feb and March. <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> Dec and Jan storms are only boredom-breakers!
Prop-wash dont speak too soon mate! Youve yet to have the full force of the Wet hit you in Feb and March. <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> Dec and Jan storms are only boredom-breakers!
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Slasher - In your post you summed up exactly why Australian Aviators are a saleable commodidty world wide. Pure simple innovation and seat of the pants skill.
If i am in a aeroplane in the worst condidions - I want an Aussie in the front left seat.
Hope it is you.
EWL
If i am in a aeroplane in the worst condidions - I want an Aussie in the front left seat.
Hope it is you.
EWL
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Y'know, sometimes I think I miss flying around the Top End.
Then I read posts like these and it all comes back to me <img src="eek.gif" border="0">
I enjoy reading through my log books too. (I did what?! )
Have you ever tried describing your experiences to those who have come through a more er, formal, type of training? Half the time they think you're making it up.
Then I read posts like these and it all comes back to me <img src="eek.gif" border="0">
I enjoy reading through my log books too. (I did what?! )
Have you ever tried describing your experiences to those who have come through a more er, formal, type of training? Half the time they think you're making it up.
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B still my throbbing heart
Miss B. I got your email but I could never get one to you?? I'm not who you think I am but hey who cares(space)! Are you still in DN ?
And on the subject, now the Wet is Gone, anyone got any good stories they "heard" before the sun started shining ??
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www.all_suburbs_kebab_hire.com.au
And on the subject, now the Wet is Gone, anyone got any good stories they "heard" before the sun started shining ??
-----------------------------------
www.all_suburbs_kebab_hire.com.au
Last edited by Kev Rivkin; 10th May 2002 at 12:41.