Helen Clarke
Join Date: Oct 1999
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Helen Clark's entire qualifications for running a country stem from a stint lecturing political studies in University. She like most of her Labour and Alliance comrades have never worked outside the public sector and are unable to run a bath let alone a country (or what is left of one).
In the last eighteen months she and her idiot mates (Dr Cullen this means you) have decimated New Zealand's defence forces, shattered international relations and through their dithering and indecision brought Air NZ to near collapse. The other ramifications of their social engineering is still to be endured and the costs calculated.
As stated in a previous post if you thought that we wanted her back you are very much mistaken. The fact that she was "rescued" by the RNZAF is a credit to their ability to put professionalism ahead of personal feelings.
I, as most NZers do, feel strongly for anyone who has lost their livelihood and their dreams in this debacle but Australians have to realise that only 40% of the population voted for our own version of "mad cow disease".
People still have to travel and hopefully that means some jobs for those left out of work. The loss of savings, entitlements, holiday pay etc is a loss that we can all understand - the demise of Tasman Pacific / Qantas NZ still only being recent.
Don't blame the rest of the country for the mistakes of a few - that sort of attitude is tantamount to killing everyone in Afghanistan in order to mete out justice to those who so richly deserve punishment.
We understand your anger but put the blame where it lies (and it seems that the Air NZ board was blocked at every turn by the NZ and latterly the Australian governments). Air NZ is sod all owned by New Zealanders any more and those that do own shares are not jumping for joy. .
Australian pilots fly New Zealand skies every day for Qantas - but no Tasman Pacific survivors block the aircraft.
Particularly in light of recent events we might just need each other.
After all the Australian Courts have ruled that we can all just turn up there anyway!
In the last eighteen months she and her idiot mates (Dr Cullen this means you) have decimated New Zealand's defence forces, shattered international relations and through their dithering and indecision brought Air NZ to near collapse. The other ramifications of their social engineering is still to be endured and the costs calculated.
As stated in a previous post if you thought that we wanted her back you are very much mistaken. The fact that she was "rescued" by the RNZAF is a credit to their ability to put professionalism ahead of personal feelings.
I, as most NZers do, feel strongly for anyone who has lost their livelihood and their dreams in this debacle but Australians have to realise that only 40% of the population voted for our own version of "mad cow disease".
People still have to travel and hopefully that means some jobs for those left out of work. The loss of savings, entitlements, holiday pay etc is a loss that we can all understand - the demise of Tasman Pacific / Qantas NZ still only being recent.
Don't blame the rest of the country for the mistakes of a few - that sort of attitude is tantamount to killing everyone in Afghanistan in order to mete out justice to those who so richly deserve punishment.
We understand your anger but put the blame where it lies (and it seems that the Air NZ board was blocked at every turn by the NZ and latterly the Australian governments). Air NZ is sod all owned by New Zealanders any more and those that do own shares are not jumping for joy. .
Australian pilots fly New Zealand skies every day for Qantas - but no Tasman Pacific survivors block the aircraft.
Particularly in light of recent events we might just need each other.
After all the Australian Courts have ruled that we can all just turn up there anyway!
Join Date: May 2001
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Am I missing something ?
The only KIWI bishing going on is that towards the Airnz board for F@#$ing 60,000 Australians over and the NZ Govt on dithering for 3 months on a decision to recap the airline.
Talk about an inferiority complex.....
The only KIWI bishing going on is that towards the Airnz board for F@#$ing 60,000 Australians over and the NZ Govt on dithering for 3 months on a decision to recap the airline.
Talk about an inferiority complex.....
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Louie: you ask Australians not to blame the ordinary Kiwis for the mistakes of a few.
That's too big an order for some of them given the present climate, because it is obvious that they don't have the brains to separate the wheat from the chaff.
Sir Shiraz: You have missed something because many posts I have read on this and other forums are dripping with xenophobic vitriol.
Inferiority complex ?, not at all, angry certainly, just as you might be if you were blamed for something over which you had absolutely no control.
That's too big an order for some of them given the present climate, because it is obvious that they don't have the brains to separate the wheat from the chaff.
Sir Shiraz: You have missed something because many posts I have read on this and other forums are dripping with xenophobic vitriol.
Inferiority complex ?, not at all, angry certainly, just as you might be if you were blamed for something over which you had absolutely no control.
Kiwi PPRuNer
Join Date: May 2000
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well if the workers refuse to service
air nz planes in australia, it would just
blow up in their face as air nz workers
would just refuse to service qantas planes
here, and as both airlines have said
the trans-tasman route is a loss-making route
so if both of them can it,then both can save some money, and us kiwis can either swim
stowaway on a boat, or fly to aussie via
singapore
air nz planes in australia, it would just
blow up in their face as air nz workers
would just refuse to service qantas planes
here, and as both airlines have said
the trans-tasman route is a loss-making route
so if both of them can it,then both can save some money, and us kiwis can either swim
stowaway on a boat, or fly to aussie via
singapore
Join Date: Mar 1999
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ZK NSJ,
Great idea of yours re travel between NZ and OZ. Might at last stem the large volume of back door immigration to OZ and prevent the continual bleeding of our welfare system and Medicare by bludging NZers.
In a previous post one of your kind complained that AirNZ was prevented from domestic operations in OZ citing th Closer Economic Relations agreement. In that case what AirNZ wanted was to fly OZ domestic routes with KIWI crews. In contrast when Ansett set up Ansett NZ employment was available to kiwi crews. On the other hand I defy you to find a single Australian employed as a pilot with AirNZ. Not likely! CER only applies in NZ's favour. Plenty of kiwis have been accepted into OZ airlines.
About time NZ was cast from our apron strings and stood on their own feet instead of bludging on us.
What a hide you lot have demanding that the OZ taxpayer should bail out a private NZ company which got out of it's depth in a commercial transaction.
Nor should the OZ taxpayer be lumbered for one cent for the workers entitlements which are OWED by AirNZ.
After that matter is settled we will be well rid of you.
Great idea of yours re travel between NZ and OZ. Might at last stem the large volume of back door immigration to OZ and prevent the continual bleeding of our welfare system and Medicare by bludging NZers.
In a previous post one of your kind complained that AirNZ was prevented from domestic operations in OZ citing th Closer Economic Relations agreement. In that case what AirNZ wanted was to fly OZ domestic routes with KIWI crews. In contrast when Ansett set up Ansett NZ employment was available to kiwi crews. On the other hand I defy you to find a single Australian employed as a pilot with AirNZ. Not likely! CER only applies in NZ's favour. Plenty of kiwis have been accepted into OZ airlines.
About time NZ was cast from our apron strings and stood on their own feet instead of bludging on us.
What a hide you lot have demanding that the OZ taxpayer should bail out a private NZ company which got out of it's depth in a commercial transaction.
Nor should the OZ taxpayer be lumbered for one cent for the workers entitlements which are OWED by AirNZ.
After that matter is settled we will be well rid of you.
Safety First!
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I am not an X AN employee I am an Australian, I have to say I am ABSOLUUTELY amazed at some of the Kiwi attitudes.
Regardless of the state of affairs at AN 6 yrs back ANZ made the decision to by the company in total i.e. 100%.
Once they did that they are responsible for all its operations including debts.
If I take out a loan and buy an investment property, six months later I can't find a tennant, I default on the repayments, so I go running back to the person who sold me the property and ask for my money back and say its all your problem, or can I if I live in NZ???
I strongly support industrial action against ANZ, "IF" the parent company does not stand up and accept responsibilty for its employees. They may not be able to pay for a while but they MUST accept responsibility before it is shoved down their throats.
These rediculous threats not to allow Ausy airlines across the Tasman will hurt NZ more than Aus infact since we have reduced our aircraft numbers by 50% it would probably help out until a better long term solution is found.
I do not blame the Kiwi on the street or the ANZ employee but in the interest of your own jobs and decency you should be lobbying your government to force ANZ to do the right thing.
PS My god Helen Clark is ugly. How could any one vote for that!! Looks like she has played a few games with the All Blacks.
Regardless of the state of affairs at AN 6 yrs back ANZ made the decision to by the company in total i.e. 100%.
Once they did that they are responsible for all its operations including debts.
If I take out a loan and buy an investment property, six months later I can't find a tennant, I default on the repayments, so I go running back to the person who sold me the property and ask for my money back and say its all your problem, or can I if I live in NZ???
I strongly support industrial action against ANZ, "IF" the parent company does not stand up and accept responsibilty for its employees. They may not be able to pay for a while but they MUST accept responsibility before it is shoved down their throats.
These rediculous threats not to allow Ausy airlines across the Tasman will hurt NZ more than Aus infact since we have reduced our aircraft numbers by 50% it would probably help out until a better long term solution is found.
I do not blame the Kiwi on the street or the ANZ employee but in the interest of your own jobs and decency you should be lobbying your government to force ANZ to do the right thing.
PS My god Helen Clark is ugly. How could any one vote for that!! Looks like she has played a few games with the All Blacks.
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Ohmigod! It just occurred to me that if NZ-Oz flights are curtailed, how in thew world will the Tampa ‘refugees’ accepted by NZ get themselves to Oz immediately after being ‘processed’ by the Kiwis, (as was the plan all along)?
And ‘airbrake’ – although I agree wholeheartedly with your sentiments I have to take exception to your last paragraph. She can’t help how she looks and I don’t think her looks should have any reflection on the way we perceive here abilities as a PeeUmm. But from what I’ve seen of her and her Cabinet’s actions so far, even if she looked like Cindy Crawford I’d have to say she’d have trouble running a chook raffle in a mining camp on pay night.
And ‘airbrake’ – although I agree wholeheartedly with your sentiments I have to take exception to your last paragraph. She can’t help how she looks and I don’t think her looks should have any reflection on the way we perceive here abilities as a PeeUmm. But from what I’ve seen of her and her Cabinet’s actions so far, even if she looked like Cindy Crawford I’d have to say she’d have trouble running a chook raffle in a mining camp on pay night.
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I had a great deal of sympathy for the Ansett workers right up to the point where the jokes and insults against kiwis in general started. You want to slash at someone, slash at Vlad In A Dress or Toomey, and if you want to protest and picket, fine, do that, but if you want to start talking about Kiwis this and Kiwis that, then you can expect to be portrayed as the semi literate neanderthals you are. If you are professionals, act like professionals, or else pack it in and go whine to the barman, because we are sick of hearing it.
Evertonian
I for one don't blame anyone but the board of ANZ. I haven't accused any kiwi in general for the state of the airline that was Ansett, but I have been having nightmares of waking up next to that, that...uuurrrghh!!!
I seriously doubt that Toomey & his QF mates decided to move all of ANZ's debt to AN to make ANZ look good (or that they were smart enough to try), that had to be the board & possibly SQ/BIL. I also feel that the NZ goverment response that AN was Oz's problem not theirs was a joke. I therefore propose a swap (if it hasn't been mentioned elsewhere already). Why doesn't the Oz government accept responsibility for AN workers entitlements and take it from the NZ nationals drawing Oz welfare? We could kill 2 birds with 1 stone.
As for the blockade, naturally, when people are angry & feel cheated, they take the lowest common denominator & choose that for their vented anger. In this case, Kiwis in general appear to be copping it. I don't think it is in anyones interest to see ANZ grounded completely, but seeing that the board think that walking away & hoping noone notices will solve all of their problems, such actions draw attention back to them & draws the eyes of the press which just might decide to scrutinise the shamefull exploits of the ANZ board. Perhaps if the administrators impounded a 744 in lieu of debts owed that might be more appropriate & tastefull to all the upset kiwis??
I seriously doubt that Toomey & his QF mates decided to move all of ANZ's debt to AN to make ANZ look good (or that they were smart enough to try), that had to be the board & possibly SQ/BIL. I also feel that the NZ goverment response that AN was Oz's problem not theirs was a joke. I therefore propose a swap (if it hasn't been mentioned elsewhere already). Why doesn't the Oz government accept responsibility for AN workers entitlements and take it from the NZ nationals drawing Oz welfare? We could kill 2 birds with 1 stone.
As for the blockade, naturally, when people are angry & feel cheated, they take the lowest common denominator & choose that for their vented anger. In this case, Kiwis in general appear to be copping it. I don't think it is in anyones interest to see ANZ grounded completely, but seeing that the board think that walking away & hoping noone notices will solve all of their problems, such actions draw attention back to them & draws the eyes of the press which just might decide to scrutinise the shamefull exploits of the ANZ board. Perhaps if the administrators impounded a 744 in lieu of debts owed that might be more appropriate & tastefull to all the upset kiwis??
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Buster,
Hard to believe that you would be able to get so drunk as to get into bed with that.
Waking up next to that, on the other hand, would be enough to make one swear off from drink for life.
The welfare dollars filched by kiwis over the years would pay the AN employees entitlements many, many times over. About time Jh fixed that.
Always scrutinise politicians "promises" very cautiously. AN employees may have got the impression that they will get their entitlements in full but if you look carefully it was mentioned about normal community "caps" so it is likely that a 25 year employee will get the same as a 10 year or 5 year employee regardless of accrued long service and annual leave.
Hard to believe that you would be able to get so drunk as to get into bed with that.
Waking up next to that, on the other hand, would be enough to make one swear off from drink for life.
The welfare dollars filched by kiwis over the years would pay the AN employees entitlements many, many times over. About time Jh fixed that.
Always scrutinise politicians "promises" very cautiously. AN employees may have got the impression that they will get their entitlements in full but if you look carefully it was mentioned about normal community "caps" so it is likely that a 25 year employee will get the same as a 10 year or 5 year employee regardless of accrued long service and annual leave.
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Where are the insults against KIWI's in general???
Most of the flak has been directed towards the Airnz board in my view and to a lesser extent the dithering Govt. that does have a majority in Parliament.
This idea that Aussies are persistent KIWI bishers is ludicrous.
But by God, that Labour Govt could not run a cold tap let alone a bath.....
Most of the flak has been directed towards the Airnz board in my view and to a lesser extent the dithering Govt. that does have a majority in Parliament.
This idea that Aussies are persistent KIWI bishers is ludicrous.
But by God, that Labour Govt could not run a cold tap let alone a bath.....
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Agreed. Where is the so called kiwi bashing? I think you are a little sensitive. Perhaps feeling a little guilt that the Air New Zealand board are just so incompetent. Perhaps at your Prime Ministers inability to act in a timely manor as value adding solutions presented themselves. Why then take joy in grounding ANZ aircraft? The ANZ board seems to need the sledgehammer approach to sit up and take notice
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Just a thought.
If the Kiwis are getting a bit sesitive towards the supposed insults towards them then that is quite justified.
They must realise that any comments directed at the NZ PM are comments towards the people that she represents and, as this person represents NZers, any comments made by her are comments, seen by many, to be coming from her supporters, the majority of NZ voters.
If NZ people are upset by the slanging match directed at the NZ PM (and thus the NZ people), then they should do something towards the muzzling of there countries figure head, so that she is unable to say anything that will further embarass her country.
If the Kiwis are getting a bit sesitive towards the supposed insults towards them then that is quite justified.
They must realise that any comments directed at the NZ PM are comments towards the people that she represents and, as this person represents NZers, any comments made by her are comments, seen by many, to be coming from her supporters, the majority of NZ voters.
If NZ people are upset by the slanging match directed at the NZ PM (and thus the NZ people), then they should do something towards the muzzling of there countries figure head, so that she is unable to say anything that will further embarass her country.
Kiwi PPRuNer
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yeah, like that australian covert
submarine at the 95 americas cup,
back to the topic, you can say
what you like about the air nz board,
or the nz government we don't exactly
care too much about them, helens only
got another year or so in government,
and she's allready stuffed the defence force,
and now maybe air nz, so what else can
she turn to custard, as some of the previous
posters have said, yes nz is a welfare state
13 billion dollars a year, which the average
guy thinks is shocking, but with the old-boy network in parliament if anyone new to the scene, tried to abolish it, all the goody-goods would come out and say , oh what are those poor people going to do, well some of
them could get of their a$#% and get a job,
i agree that welfare is needed in some cases,
but i think we have gone a bit over the top.
[ 17 September 2001: Message edited by: ZK-NSJ ]
submarine at the 95 americas cup,
back to the topic, you can say
what you like about the air nz board,
or the nz government we don't exactly
care too much about them, helens only
got another year or so in government,
and she's allready stuffed the defence force,
and now maybe air nz, so what else can
she turn to custard, as some of the previous
posters have said, yes nz is a welfare state
13 billion dollars a year, which the average
guy thinks is shocking, but with the old-boy network in parliament if anyone new to the scene, tried to abolish it, all the goody-goods would come out and say , oh what are those poor people going to do, well some of
them could get of their a$#% and get a job,
i agree that welfare is needed in some cases,
but i think we have gone a bit over the top.
[ 17 September 2001: Message edited by: ZK-NSJ ]
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Never mind the supposed Kiwi bashing, now she is showing her true colours, not supporting Australia, the USA and about 99% of the World.............
NATIONAL NEWS
MONDAY, 17 SEPTEMBER 2001
N A T I O N A L N E W S S T O R Y
PM cuts links to Anzus
17 September 2001
By SETH ROBSON
Prime Minister Helen Clark has pledged intelligence support in the global fight against terrorism, but is refusing to enact the Anzus treaty.
Yesterday, Ms Clark said New Zealand was no longer an operational member of Anzus and would not participate in negotiations between Australia and the United States in response to the terrorist attacks in America.
Anzus, from which New Zealand has never formally withdrawn despite friction over the Government's nuclear-free stance, includes a provision under which Australia, New Zealand, and the US regard an attack on one partner as an attack on all.
Australia implemented Anzus provisions on Friday following America's European allies such as Britain, France, Germany, Italy, and Spain who have similar obligations under the Nato treaty.
However, Ms Clark said New Zealand was no longer bound by the treaty and that the US should feel under no obligation to defend New Zealand in future.
"No, it (America) would have no obligation. For the past 15 years it (Anzus) has ceased to exist as far as New Zealand is concerned," she said.
The move leaves New Zealand without a major ally as the world prepares for a war on terrorists that could involve invasion of Afghanistan and other States known to harbour such criminals.
Ms Clark said New Zealand was taking a similar position to countries such as Ireland, Sweden, and Finland, who had condemned the actions of the terrorists.
"New Zealand is being counted in to an international response to terrorism. It is important for the response to go beyond what is normally considered by the Western countries," she said.
"The Russians have concerns, the Chinese have concerns, all countries have concerns."
Ms Clark said she still believed New Zealand was living in a "benign" defence environment, despite the US attack.
What was not so benign was the intelligence environment.
"I have been a lonely voice for years in pointing out the importance of New Zealand having a strong intelligence capability," she said.
New Zealand's intelligence capability would be put to work rooting out potential terrorists operating out of New Zealand.
However, this would not mean a crackdown on Muslims or people from the Middle East.
"It is not a question of targeting a particular ethnic group," Ms Clark said.
Earlier this year Security Intelligence Service (SIS) director Richard Woods revealed that there were several people with links to terrorist groups living in New Zealand.
The US and Australia have yet to respond to Ms Clark's repudiation of Anzus.
Opposition defence spokesman Max Bradford said reneging on Anzus was not a credible moral or military stance.
The decision was a reflection of Ms Clark's "dislike" of the US and Australia and her "sympathy" for groups who disliked the US.
"This is the true Helen Clark coming out – her true anti-American, anti-Australian stance.
"She will talk and talk and do nothing. Neither the Australians or the Americans can rely on us."
NATIONAL NEWS
MONDAY, 17 SEPTEMBER 2001
N A T I O N A L N E W S S T O R Y
PM cuts links to Anzus
17 September 2001
By SETH ROBSON
Prime Minister Helen Clark has pledged intelligence support in the global fight against terrorism, but is refusing to enact the Anzus treaty.
Yesterday, Ms Clark said New Zealand was no longer an operational member of Anzus and would not participate in negotiations between Australia and the United States in response to the terrorist attacks in America.
Anzus, from which New Zealand has never formally withdrawn despite friction over the Government's nuclear-free stance, includes a provision under which Australia, New Zealand, and the US regard an attack on one partner as an attack on all.
Australia implemented Anzus provisions on Friday following America's European allies such as Britain, France, Germany, Italy, and Spain who have similar obligations under the Nato treaty.
However, Ms Clark said New Zealand was no longer bound by the treaty and that the US should feel under no obligation to defend New Zealand in future.
"No, it (America) would have no obligation. For the past 15 years it (Anzus) has ceased to exist as far as New Zealand is concerned," she said.
The move leaves New Zealand without a major ally as the world prepares for a war on terrorists that could involve invasion of Afghanistan and other States known to harbour such criminals.
Ms Clark said New Zealand was taking a similar position to countries such as Ireland, Sweden, and Finland, who had condemned the actions of the terrorists.
"New Zealand is being counted in to an international response to terrorism. It is important for the response to go beyond what is normally considered by the Western countries," she said.
"The Russians have concerns, the Chinese have concerns, all countries have concerns."
Ms Clark said she still believed New Zealand was living in a "benign" defence environment, despite the US attack.
What was not so benign was the intelligence environment.
"I have been a lonely voice for years in pointing out the importance of New Zealand having a strong intelligence capability," she said.
New Zealand's intelligence capability would be put to work rooting out potential terrorists operating out of New Zealand.
However, this would not mean a crackdown on Muslims or people from the Middle East.
"It is not a question of targeting a particular ethnic group," Ms Clark said.
Earlier this year Security Intelligence Service (SIS) director Richard Woods revealed that there were several people with links to terrorist groups living in New Zealand.
The US and Australia have yet to respond to Ms Clark's repudiation of Anzus.
Opposition defence spokesman Max Bradford said reneging on Anzus was not a credible moral or military stance.
The decision was a reflection of Ms Clark's "dislike" of the US and Australia and her "sympathy" for groups who disliked the US.
"This is the true Helen Clark coming out – her true anti-American, anti-Australian stance.
"She will talk and talk and do nothing. Neither the Australians or the Americans can rely on us."