Bankstown Prang
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Bankstown Prang
Saw a Cherokee (VH-DJM?) suffered engine failure after takeoff from BK around 4pm this arvo. The aeroplane was pointed in the opposite direction with a collapsed undercarriage near the airport perimeter fence when I had a look - anyone know the full story? One very lucky pilot by the look of it. Hopefully no injuries.
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Drove past about 4ish and noticed 3 choppers all holding very low towards the west almost over the river. Then a bunch of ambo's and coppers came screaming by towards YSBK minutes after. Wondered if something had happened.
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He/she suffered an EFATO in a single engine aeroplane and you call them lucky?
Why should lower the nose and land straight ahead require luck? If there's nowhere to go then OK, but still inside the perimeter fence should'nt be too much of a problem.
Why should lower the nose and land straight ahead require luck? If there's nowhere to go then OK, but still inside the perimeter fence should'nt be too much of a problem.
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Messiah, bitter-sweet, I admit. He turned it back to the field after the failure and didn't get it back with much room to spare by the look of it. It could have been a lot worse very easily, hence his luck.
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Yes I sit corrected, very lucky indeed.
But turning back??? Dear o' dear o' dear. They keep doing it don't they, and then the papers get hold of it and then the public decide that small aeroplanes are 'unsafe'.
Where to start?
But turning back??? Dear o' dear o' dear. They keep doing it don't they, and then the papers get hold of it and then the public decide that small aeroplanes are 'unsafe'.
Where to start?
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Just a q guys. What is the taught method to handle an EFATO at YSBK. Never flown from there but i figure there ain't too many green paddocks off the end of the runways to go for. Streets? OR do they actually teach turnbacks to studs (heaven forbid!!!!).
Where I was taught to fly (at BK) the standard take-off brief always applied, i.e. below 300' look for a field 30 degrees either side of the nose and above that you can widen your scope to 60 degrees either side. The bit that always stuck in my mind however was "I will not turn back to the field until above 1000' or established on downwind". Because of this, turnbacks have always astonished me, although good on them for making it in this case.
Given that the above is a standard safety brief, in my belief it is also important to have some pre-determined fields in mind. At an airport like BK that can be a very scary thing when you actually stop and think what your options are.
Quite a few people here fly out of BK and as such will have their own opinions on where they would put it in should the unthinkable happen.
RWY 11] - probably the worst case scenario, especially if off 11L. There is a large netball complex straight ahead surrounded by some fields, however this becomes out of the question once above about 300'. Beyond that, there is the Trotting Track, not the safest bet but one that would preserve life on the ground. Off 11R, the M5 motorway is an option, given there is no powerlines on it - just remember to land with the traffic! Like I said, once you stop and think about it, it's almost time for a change of undies.
RWY 29 - Few more options in this direction. Immediately after take-off there are a number of golf courses - plenty of trees of course, but no houses and probably the odd fairway long enough to stop a lightie. Beyond that is the river and Chipping Norton lake which could be safer depending on what your opinions of ditching are. Surrounding the lakes there is a fair bit of waste land, although this is gradually being taken over by new housing projects. Further past that you have Warwick Farm racecourse, but you would want to be at a decent height and hope the westerlies aren't too strong if you're aiming for that.
So yeah, that's pretty much it for BK...Enjoy!
Cheers,
TL
Given that the above is a standard safety brief, in my belief it is also important to have some pre-determined fields in mind. At an airport like BK that can be a very scary thing when you actually stop and think what your options are.
Quite a few people here fly out of BK and as such will have their own opinions on where they would put it in should the unthinkable happen.
RWY 11] - probably the worst case scenario, especially if off 11L. There is a large netball complex straight ahead surrounded by some fields, however this becomes out of the question once above about 300'. Beyond that, there is the Trotting Track, not the safest bet but one that would preserve life on the ground. Off 11R, the M5 motorway is an option, given there is no powerlines on it - just remember to land with the traffic! Like I said, once you stop and think about it, it's almost time for a change of undies.
RWY 29 - Few more options in this direction. Immediately after take-off there are a number of golf courses - plenty of trees of course, but no houses and probably the odd fairway long enough to stop a lightie. Beyond that is the river and Chipping Norton lake which could be safer depending on what your opinions of ditching are. Surrounding the lakes there is a fair bit of waste land, although this is gradually being taken over by new housing projects. Further past that you have Warwick Farm racecourse, but you would want to be at a decent height and hope the westerlies aren't too strong if you're aiming for that.
So yeah, that's pretty much it for BK...Enjoy!
Cheers,
TL
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I recall during the 80's sometime there were two separate aircraft that suffered EFATO off one of the 29 Runways.
One was a Cherokee six that ended up into a factory roof at Chipping Norton and killed all on board. The other, a C210 ended up either the same or into a tree at Chipping Norton and also sadly killed all on board.
Other EFATOs of Rwy 29 have fortunately survived that were able to land closer to the airport, if not within the confines.
I have'nt heard of any failures from Rwy 11 that ended up the same as the first two, thank god.
One was a Cherokee six that ended up into a factory roof at Chipping Norton and killed all on board. The other, a C210 ended up either the same or into a tree at Chipping Norton and also sadly killed all on board.
Other EFATOs of Rwy 29 have fortunately survived that were able to land closer to the airport, if not within the confines.
I have'nt heard of any failures from Rwy 11 that ended up the same as the first two, thank god.
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It seems what is briefed and what actually happens are two different things in the event of an actual failure when you're presented with so few options. I did my initial training at BK and had it drummed into me never to turn back, but trying to resist the urge to land on the 1100m strip right behind you when there aren't any good options and you're inexperienced would be very difficult under pressure.
Best demo I had was an instructor proving to me that I couldn't make it back while at altitude. It should be a mandatory part of the GFPT syllabus.
Turns out it was an instructor with a student and passenger on board this one.
Best demo I had was an instructor proving to me that I couldn't make it back while at altitude. It should be a mandatory part of the GFPT syllabus.
Turns out it was an instructor with a student and passenger on board this one.
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Do the maths.
180 deg turn at rate 1= 1 min
ROD during gliding turn= 1000fpm approx.
Below 1000' definately not an option.
Above 1000' nearly always there are many other options.
180 deg turn at rate 1= 1 min
ROD during gliding turn= 1000fpm approx.
Below 1000' definately not an option.
Above 1000' nearly always there are many other options.
I wonder if anyone out there is smart enough to work out what angle of bank gives the best ratio of (Rate of Turn) / (Rate of Descent), ie 180 degree turn with the smallest loss of height. My gut feeling is that it is 45 degrees angle of bank but I can't prove it.
Would the ideal speed be the same as best glide speed (wings level) or would it be at a higher airspeed?
I'm thinking that it may need to be a higher speed seeing as the G-loading in the turn gives the aircraft an apparent increase in weight. We all know that an increase in weight means that the best lift / drag ratio is achieved at a higher airspeed.
Perhaps this is something that glider pilots are well versed on.
<img src="confused.gif" border="0">
Would the ideal speed be the same as best glide speed (wings level) or would it be at a higher airspeed?
I'm thinking that it may need to be a higher speed seeing as the G-loading in the turn gives the aircraft an apparent increase in weight. We all know that an increase in weight means that the best lift / drag ratio is achieved at a higher airspeed.
Perhaps this is something that glider pilots are well versed on.
<img src="confused.gif" border="0">
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An old hand told me once and I have remembered it ever since: "Go straight ahead to the hospital or turn back to the graveyard!"
Very relieved to say I've never been forced to test his saying.
I hope all involved are OK or soon will be.
Very relieved to say I've never been forced to test his saying.
I hope all involved are OK or soon will be.
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Messiah,
I was inferring that rate 1 is too LITTLE AoB. The greater the AoB the less height we lose in the turn provided we fly a set airspeed. Just a matter of finding the best airspeed in such a critical phase of flight.
I was inferring that rate 1 is too LITTLE AoB. The greater the AoB the less height we lose in the turn provided we fly a set airspeed. Just a matter of finding the best airspeed in such a critical phase of flight.
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The latest Australian Flying talks all about EFATO, quite a good article. I always liked to take my students up to altitude, say 4000' and then simulate a failure and get them to do a 180 and see how much altitude they would lose, to prove my point on turnbacks below 1000', especially in high sink rate aircraft like short-wing arrows.
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Just for interest, the pilot was Ashley Sky ( a BK instructor ), he did not turn back, and he, in my opinion did himself credit.
As an antidote to this happening, he had only enough time to get the following transmission out to BK tower , Quote" F$ck", Unquote.
Well, that pretty much would sum the situation up to me.
Good job Captain Sky ( pun ).
As an antidote to this happening, he had only enough time to get the following transmission out to BK tower , Quote" F$ck", Unquote.
Well, that pretty much would sum the situation up to me.
Good job Captain Sky ( pun ).
I was in JWW, taking off immediately ahead of him, heared on 132.8..."awww f$ck......crash, bang thump....you allright guys". Appeares he was hanging on to the yoke and was squeezing the press to talk swith. Good to see the proceedures we teach to in fact work when it all goes pear shaped. Well done!!!
