dropping em out
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dropping em out
Im interested to get a little insight from anyone with experience flying parachute ops.
Roughly how far above Vs do you fly for the drop? Do you use any flap? And any other info you think may be important is also welcome.
Roughly how far above Vs do you fly for the drop? Do you use any flap? And any other info you think may be important is also welcome.
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Peanut I fly at climb the 182, 206, 185 at 80 kts as it provides the best combination of climb rate and cooling, any less and the CHT starts to rise. 10 deg flap for take off but climb out clean.
For power off and decent you must have the cowl flaps closed and around rpm/manifold pressure at around 20 20 to prevent shock cooling, Landing with out pax with and only your reserve fuel - the c of g is reasonably far forward, for this reason I would avoid using lots of flap.
For power off and decent you must have the cowl flaps closed and around rpm/manifold pressure at around 20 20 to prevent shock cooling, Landing with out pax with and only your reserve fuel - the c of g is reasonably far forward, for this reason I would avoid using lots of flap.
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throttlemonkey, thankyou. However I was particularly interested in the events (speeds, power settings, flaps settings etc) surrounding the drop itself. i.e when you boot them out the door.
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Peanutter,
Here's how I did it in the C206 in the UK.
10 degrees flap for take off, full power on take off and as soon as the wheels left the ground, power was reduced to 24" and 2400Rpm and flaps up (this could all happen before you even reach 100 feet agl).
We climbed using 24" and 2400 Rpm, and 90 Mph (we had an old ASI in miles per hour). Maintain 24" as you climb by opening throttle. 1000ft checks were taxi, landing and strobes OFF, low boost OFF and Mixture to 14Gph (some companies use top of green arc).
For the run in (except for the last run in), Cowl Flaps open, 2400Rpm, throttle as required to maintain 80Mph (Vs was 70Mph). At this stage, the flying becomes more of an Instrument flight than anything as you will be pinned to the ASI for correct drop speed for the jumpers and to prevent stall, also, eagle eye on the heading given by the jump master (JM). When the JM calls cut, close throttle, MAINTAIN 80Mph at all costs, you will start decending naturally. When the jumper(s) is out power on to about 22" minimum/max 24" and left turn to climb for next pass.
On the Last Drop, for the run in, Cowl Flaps closed, Prop 2200Rpm, throttle as required for 80Mph. When the last jumper is out, power to 19" and nose over to 150Mph and descend maintaining 19"MP as you descend. You can also reduce RPM to 2000 if you want to keep things quiet.
Our check list called for 90Mph for the Vat but I found this much too fast for a very light aircraft, more like 80-85 with Flap 30. Never used Flap 40, only up to 30 degrees did we use as we had lots of windsheer where we flew at low level. Maintain 2200 or 2000 Rpm all the way through the approach with flaps selected as required (10 on base, 20 on final and 30 mid-short final) then on short final, Prop to Fine and Vat for landing (80-85Mph). Land, grab another load, go up, come down, do the same again.
I have a check list on my website regarding the C206 drop ship, you can download it if you like at v1rotate website
Let me know if you need more info.
v1...rotate
Here's how I did it in the C206 in the UK.
10 degrees flap for take off, full power on take off and as soon as the wheels left the ground, power was reduced to 24" and 2400Rpm and flaps up (this could all happen before you even reach 100 feet agl).
We climbed using 24" and 2400 Rpm, and 90 Mph (we had an old ASI in miles per hour). Maintain 24" as you climb by opening throttle. 1000ft checks were taxi, landing and strobes OFF, low boost OFF and Mixture to 14Gph (some companies use top of green arc).
For the run in (except for the last run in), Cowl Flaps open, 2400Rpm, throttle as required to maintain 80Mph (Vs was 70Mph). At this stage, the flying becomes more of an Instrument flight than anything as you will be pinned to the ASI for correct drop speed for the jumpers and to prevent stall, also, eagle eye on the heading given by the jump master (JM). When the JM calls cut, close throttle, MAINTAIN 80Mph at all costs, you will start decending naturally. When the jumper(s) is out power on to about 22" minimum/max 24" and left turn to climb for next pass.
On the Last Drop, for the run in, Cowl Flaps closed, Prop 2200Rpm, throttle as required for 80Mph. When the last jumper is out, power to 19" and nose over to 150Mph and descend maintaining 19"MP as you descend. You can also reduce RPM to 2000 if you want to keep things quiet.
Our check list called for 90Mph for the Vat but I found this much too fast for a very light aircraft, more like 80-85 with Flap 30. Never used Flap 40, only up to 30 degrees did we use as we had lots of windsheer where we flew at low level. Maintain 2200 or 2000 Rpm all the way through the approach with flaps selected as required (10 on base, 20 on final and 30 mid-short final) then on short final, Prop to Fine and Vat for landing (80-85Mph). Land, grab another load, go up, come down, do the same again.
I have a check list on my website regarding the C206 drop ship, you can download it if you like at v1rotate website
Let me know if you need more info.
v1...rotate
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Some good stuff there v1rotate. Would also add to that to be sure in something like a 182/206 that you also ensure that you do not land with the park brake still applied (you sometimes do get asked to lock the wheel so that someone can stand on it).
I have been flying a C185 and have been using a climb speed of 80/85 KIAS (cooling), a power setting all the way to full throttle height of 25/25 (then full throttle), at TOC and around 30secs before opening the door (our a/c is fitted with a proper parachute ops door) start reducing the rpm/map SLOWLY and start closing the cowls. When you are asked to "power-off" you can then retard the throttle and we usually try to maintain 60-65 KIAS (stalling with 5 people hanging off one of your wing struts isn't too good a look). The a/c will start to descend, and as previously stated this part is usually an instrument/GPS excercise. When they have chosen to depart the steed we use 18"/2000 and hold the top of the green (or slightly higher) IAS. Have also found that in most descents one must "unwind" oneself when around halfway down so that one fuel tank doesn't feed off the other on the way down, and it gets a bit boring turning the same way for 3-4 minutes.
Have been using 10deg flap for t/o, 20deg for wheeler landing, and 30deg for 3 pointer.
Approach airfield as per local rules etc.
Hope that helps you.
ed for flap settings.
[ 19 August 2001: Message edited by: 429 CJ ]
I have been flying a C185 and have been using a climb speed of 80/85 KIAS (cooling), a power setting all the way to full throttle height of 25/25 (then full throttle), at TOC and around 30secs before opening the door (our a/c is fitted with a proper parachute ops door) start reducing the rpm/map SLOWLY and start closing the cowls. When you are asked to "power-off" you can then retard the throttle and we usually try to maintain 60-65 KIAS (stalling with 5 people hanging off one of your wing struts isn't too good a look). The a/c will start to descend, and as previously stated this part is usually an instrument/GPS excercise. When they have chosen to depart the steed we use 18"/2000 and hold the top of the green (or slightly higher) IAS. Have also found that in most descents one must "unwind" oneself when around halfway down so that one fuel tank doesn't feed off the other on the way down, and it gets a bit boring turning the same way for 3-4 minutes.
Have been using 10deg flap for t/o, 20deg for wheeler landing, and 30deg for 3 pointer.
Approach airfield as per local rules etc.
Hope that helps you.
ed for flap settings.
[ 19 August 2001: Message edited by: 429 CJ ]
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Thankyou, thankyou, thankyou v1rotate and 429 CJ. Excellent stuff; exactly what I was looking for. And particular thanks to v1rotate for the link to the checklist - all I have to do now is convert your speeds into knots and I'll have all the info I was after.
Cheers!
Cheers!
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Having spoken to a number of LAMEs on the descent issue, I've taken all they've said on board and now descend at max MP (initially, but not above 20 inches if it's a low drop) and 2450 rpm (top of the green arc).
Reason: Higher rpm = more bangs/fire = more heat.
Turbofan
Reason: Higher rpm = more bangs/fire = more heat.
Turbofan
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Keep the engine warm in a 182, but high RPM settings can cause the prop to drive the engine (high speed descents) and that causes piston ring flutter=wear. Recommend MAP top of green or slightly less and 2350RPM. Make power changes smoothly, too!
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I think the issue of RPM seting on the descent is still a little unclear. Some say 2000RPM (For the C206), some say 2200RPM, LAMES say another. I guess do what your company tells you and you wont be busted for doing something different EXCEPT if you know for sure that it wont kill you in the end.
429 CJ
No, havent heard of the wheel brake check before. I guess it's because that we use the C206 for Static Line and students only with a restriction of 2 jumpers hanging out of the aircraft all with feet on the ledge and hanging onto the "JesusBar" inside the top ledge of the barn doors. 5 hanging off one wing strut is FULL ON
429 CJ
No, havent heard of the wheel brake check before. I guess it's because that we use the C206 for Static Line and students only with a restriction of 2 jumpers hanging out of the aircraft all with feet on the ledge and hanging onto the "JesusBar" inside the top ledge of the barn doors. 5 hanging off one wing strut is FULL ON
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AND FULL AILERON 'ON' AS WELL ! The guy who suggested these power settings to me is also a lame for his day to day work (and he maintains this a/c), and apparently the a/c has never blown a pot yet in many thousands of descents. As he knows much better than I do in that regard, he gets what he asks for - 18"/2000rpm.
The guy who suggested these power settings to me is also a lame for his day to day work (and he maintains this a/c), and apparently the a/c has never blown a pot yet in many thousands of descents. As he knows much better than I do in that regard, he gets what he asks for - 18"/2000rpm.
I don't want to be the best pilot in the world - Just the oldest
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Did about 400hrs jump flying over a few years and found different 182 operators wanted their aircraft flown at different pwr settings.
At one end of the spectrum was a normal takeoff, 25" 2500rpm for the climb. level off nlt 1 min before the drop and descend at 20" 2400rpm at no more than 130kts. A run to 10,000ft would normally be about .5
Another guy wanted full throttle from takeoff to top of climb, throttle back, drop the meatbombs at 70kts then full throttle and descend at VNE minus 10kts keeping MAP at 23" until circuit. Not sure how his airfame and engine maintenance bills went but he sure had quick sortie times.
I found that each operator had their own views based on personal experience or on LAME advice on the best way to fly the aircraft and achieve the best time to height and descent. Except one DZ who owned an aircraft and not one of them was a pilot. They were just happy for to have a pilot turn up and fly for them.
At one end of the spectrum was a normal takeoff, 25" 2500rpm for the climb. level off nlt 1 min before the drop and descend at 20" 2400rpm at no more than 130kts. A run to 10,000ft would normally be about .5
Another guy wanted full throttle from takeoff to top of climb, throttle back, drop the meatbombs at 70kts then full throttle and descend at VNE minus 10kts keeping MAP at 23" until circuit. Not sure how his airfame and engine maintenance bills went but he sure had quick sortie times.
I found that each operator had their own views based on personal experience or on LAME advice on the best way to fly the aircraft and achieve the best time to height and descent. Except one DZ who owned an aircraft and not one of them was a pilot. They were just happy for to have a pilot turn up and fly for them.
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Hey fellas,
I'm no stranger to 5 guys on the strut. Now, keeping it from stalling, getting it ready for descent, making calls, and generally dealing with a bunch of stuff like this all at once can be a bit of a handful, but try throwing in a stray freakin' pilot chute flapping in the doorway that belonged to the guy in the V (where strut meets fuse)...!!!
I saw it there, grabbed the damn thing so the slipstream didn't take it over the tailplane, screamed at the guys but of course none of them heard me, and none even saw it there flapping in their faces (skydivers...
). I figured I was a dead man if one of them didn't take it with them (didn't want it going over the tail when they left the plane), so as a last split second save my life' measure I wrapped it once around the arm of the guy in the door as they went. It was just enough to get it clear of the a/c before it opened up...
And damn it all happened quick...!
Stay switched on fellas!
You never know when the sh!t could hit the... well, tail!
Turbofan
I'm no stranger to 5 guys on the strut. Now, keeping it from stalling, getting it ready for descent, making calls, and generally dealing with a bunch of stuff like this all at once can be a bit of a handful, but try throwing in a stray freakin' pilot chute flapping in the doorway that belonged to the guy in the V (where strut meets fuse)...!!!
I saw it there, grabbed the damn thing so the slipstream didn't take it over the tailplane, screamed at the guys but of course none of them heard me, and none even saw it there flapping in their faces (skydivers...
). I figured I was a dead man if one of them didn't take it with them (didn't want it going over the tail when they left the plane), so as a last split second save my life' measure I wrapped it once around the arm of the guy in the door as they went. It was just enough to get it clear of the a/c before it opened up...And damn it all happened quick...!
Stay switched on fellas!
You never know when the sh!t could hit the... well, tail!
Turbofan
