What's the future for Impulse in all of this??
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What's the future for Impulse in all of this??
In amongst the tremendous goings on that have been occurring recently, does anyone have any idea what - if any - grand plans exist for Impulse?
Quiet achiever that it is right now (well, I THINK it is!!
What does everyone make of these all economy aircraft entering service? Saw the big full page ad from QF advertising the painted up 738...but where does that leave Impulse, particularly with the lower cost base that they operate under? Since Impulse operate under the QFLink (re: regional) banner - offering the SAME level of all economy service, what gives??
Just a wee bit curious, as we can all appreciate, in these troubled times, security is what we ALL want for our jobs and companies.
All rumours welcome - even the one about us getting 757's!!!!!
Quiet achiever that it is right now (well, I THINK it is!!
What does everyone make of these all economy aircraft entering service? Saw the big full page ad from QF advertising the painted up 738...but where does that leave Impulse, particularly with the lower cost base that they operate under? Since Impulse operate under the QFLink (re: regional) banner - offering the SAME level of all economy service, what gives??Just a wee bit curious, as we can all appreciate, in these troubled times, security is what we ALL want for our jobs and companies.
All rumours welcome - even the one about us getting 757's!!!!!
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Well I can tell you one thing - there are 108 spare seats on the last plane to Melbourne from Launceston tonight - don't know how many pax they need to carry to break even, but they'll be struggling to survive out of Launceston.
Where to from there?
Where to from there?
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There have bean a few rumours floating around since QF announced their plan to purchase new aircraft that will be configured in "Y" class. QF are also going to re-configure some of the older 733 and 734 into an all "Y" class.
It would appear that the B717 fleet will not expand and may be reduced. Once the 738 and the older 733 go into service there are many routes that the 717's operate now that could be replaced.
Routes such as:
SY-HB-SY
SY-LT-SY
SY-HMI-SY
SY-TL-SY
SY-MC-SY
QF may move the 717 onto routes that are currently operated by the 146 (which would be a good move).
QF would also like to remove the 1900's from the fleet. This will start next month when Sunstate's new Dash 8 replaces the 1900's on the ROM and CV routes. Qantas are also planning on putting the Dash 8 back on the SY-NTL-SY route.
It would appear that the B717 fleet will not expand and may be reduced. Once the 738 and the older 733 go into service there are many routes that the 717's operate now that could be replaced.
Routes such as:
SY-HB-SY
SY-LT-SY
SY-HMI-SY
SY-TL-SY
SY-MC-SY
QF may move the 717 onto routes that are currently operated by the 146 (which would be a good move).
QF would also like to remove the 1900's from the fleet. This will start next month when Sunstate's new Dash 8 replaces the 1900's on the ROM and CV routes. Qantas are also planning on putting the Dash 8 back on the SY-NTL-SY route.
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So what happens to the current operators if Qantas move the 717 onto routes currently operated by the 146s (second time that's been suggested on this forum)?
I can see how a contractor (Impulse) can replace another contractor (National Jet) - your services are no longer required - but they can't do that to Southern, as the agreement Qantas had with the ACCC when it took over Impulse was that there would be no job losses as a result. Looks like Southern are entrenched in Canberra for the time being.
Also, the 717s already do Hobart/Sydney; Launceston/Sydney runs.
I can see how a contractor (Impulse) can replace another contractor (National Jet) - your services are no longer required - but they can't do that to Southern, as the agreement Qantas had with the ACCC when it took over Impulse was that there would be no job losses as a result. Looks like Southern are entrenched in Canberra for the time being.
Also, the 717s already do Hobart/Sydney; Launceston/Sydney runs.
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I would be surprised to see Southern in CBR for long.
Impulse committed themselves to building a 717 maintenance facility in CBR and Qantas have recently confirmed that this centre will be built. This being the case, it would seem logical to see Impulse's 717s on CBR routes - the obvious would be MEL and BNE routes (especially as there is now comptetion with Virgin's 737NGs) - possibly a few SYD services too.
This would also point to the fact that QF have no intention of getting rid of the 717s altogether.
Impulse committed themselves to building a 717 maintenance facility in CBR and Qantas have recently confirmed that this centre will be built. This being the case, it would seem logical to see Impulse's 717s on CBR routes - the obvious would be MEL and BNE routes (especially as there is now comptetion with Virgin's 737NGs) - possibly a few SYD services too.
This would also point to the fact that QF have no intention of getting rid of the 717s altogether.
Having a hangar doesn't mean you are staying anywhere, look at the new Southern hangar in Launceston.
I think you will find the supposed 717 facility in Canberra will end up being a nice garage for the VIP 737's.
I think you will find the supposed 717 facility in Canberra will end up being a nice garage for the VIP 737's.
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OK, so Impulse go to Canberra and do the Brisbane run. Where does that leave Southern? Back to Launceston when Qantas get their arse kicked by Virgin Blue? If Qantas as a sole operator can't fill the 717s now, they've got even less hope when Virgin come on line with one flight next week, and a second daily flight starting 1st December (and they're talking about a third daily flight during peak times!). Virgin fares are $23 cheaper return, which is significant for Tasmanians who don't have the option of road transport and who have to travel regularly to the mainland, especially those with families. And despite the fact that Kendells re-entry to Launceston is being howled down (like who'd travel in a SAAB when you can go by jet), the fact that their service is underwritten until the end of January 2002 means that they will operate through the busiest time of the year and the passengers they get will be those that would have flown with the competition.
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The November issue of Australian Aviation says that the hangar in Canberra will go ahead after a cash injection from Qantas. It says it is stil planned to house Impulse's regional operations headquarters and to perform 717 heavy maintenance.
So maybe one of these may occur:
a. Qantas does move the 717 operation to Canberra, and they operate CB-ML-CB, CB-BN-CB, CB-AD-CB and CB-SY-CB.
b. Qantas takes over the lease of 2-3 717 (If they can) and hand them over to Southern to operate.
c. The hangar is used by Qantas to perform maintenance on the 604's and BBJ.
d. If b or c occur maybe the B717's would be sent to NZ. Over there they could compete not only against ANZ B737's but could compete against MT Cooks ATR 72's.
I have heard from a few B1900 pilots who say they don't have much faith in Qantas keeping the B1900 operation.
If only Impulse held out for another 3-4 months. They would have been in the box seat after the Ansett collapse, already flying the East Coast trunk routes plus having their own regional operation.
[ 01 November 2001: Message edited by: ComeByChance ]
So maybe one of these may occur:
a. Qantas does move the 717 operation to Canberra, and they operate CB-ML-CB, CB-BN-CB, CB-AD-CB and CB-SY-CB.
b. Qantas takes over the lease of 2-3 717 (If they can) and hand them over to Southern to operate.
c. The hangar is used by Qantas to perform maintenance on the 604's and BBJ.
d. If b or c occur maybe the B717's would be sent to NZ. Over there they could compete not only against ANZ B737's but could compete against MT Cooks ATR 72's.
I have heard from a few B1900 pilots who say they don't have much faith in Qantas keeping the B1900 operation.
If only Impulse held out for another 3-4 months. They would have been in the box seat after the Ansett collapse, already flying the East Coast trunk routes plus having their own regional operation.
[ 01 November 2001: Message edited by: ComeByChance ]
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It is agood thing pilots do not run Airlines.
What is the most important reason for any company to be operating? Answer PROFIT PROFIT P - R - O - F - I - T. Shareholders want profit.
Now the second question. Why would Qantas get rid of Impulse or do a silly thing like handing over 717,s to Southens. Heck Qantas has NJS operating around 20 146's even with its big problems. Reason. They operate them cheaper than Qantas mainline. Bloody hell Qantas have 80 million invested in Impulse. Impulse can only expand. Qantas have 8 new state of the art 717's. Maybe the pax in Tasmania don't like brand new jets.
Southens, NJS, Impulse, Q mainline, Sunstate etc provide services to Qantas and the lower the cost the higher the profit = Happier shareholders.
In this day and age when there is doom and gloom when a lot of companies are struggling to survive do you really think Qantas would get of a cost effective way to generate profit.
I think all of us know in this industry loyalty means nothing.
Next question please?
What is the most important reason for any company to be operating? Answer PROFIT PROFIT P - R - O - F - I - T. Shareholders want profit.
Now the second question. Why would Qantas get rid of Impulse or do a silly thing like handing over 717,s to Southens. Heck Qantas has NJS operating around 20 146's even with its big problems. Reason. They operate them cheaper than Qantas mainline. Bloody hell Qantas have 80 million invested in Impulse. Impulse can only expand. Qantas have 8 new state of the art 717's. Maybe the pax in Tasmania don't like brand new jets.
Southens, NJS, Impulse, Q mainline, Sunstate etc provide services to Qantas and the lower the cost the higher the profit = Happier shareholders.
In this day and age when there is doom and gloom when a lot of companies are struggling to survive do you really think Qantas would get of a cost effective way to generate profit.
I think all of us know in this industry loyalty means nothing.
Next question please?
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I will give you one reason why Qantas why Qantas could get rid of Impulse or National Jet and hand the B717 over to Southern, Eastern or Sunstate, they own the last 3 and the first 2 are only contractors. Yes NJS or Impulse may provide a lower cost base theN Qantas mainline, but so would the fully owned Qantas regionals.
Profit and Shareholders were mentioned, yes I agree that the NJS/Impulse setup does help the profit and the shareholders but some of that profit has to go on payments to NJS/Impulse for there services provided. Now if these same services were provided by the fully owned Qantas regionals all the profits remain within the company.
Yes Qantas may have invested $80M into Impulse, but wasn't that a loan? This deal was done before the Ansett collapse and Sep 11th and the aviation world has changed. Qantas is out to capture 70-80% of the Australian domestic market and Impulse/NJS are helping them do that, but Qantas are now also the sole carry on many routes and are searching for extra capacity hence the order and options for the 737-800.
I don't think Qantas will stop their deals with Impulse/NJS, but I can't see them expanding Impulse/NJS.
[ 01 November 2001: Message edited by: ComeByChance ]
Profit and Shareholders were mentioned, yes I agree that the NJS/Impulse setup does help the profit and the shareholders but some of that profit has to go on payments to NJS/Impulse for there services provided. Now if these same services were provided by the fully owned Qantas regionals all the profits remain within the company.
Yes Qantas may have invested $80M into Impulse, but wasn't that a loan? This deal was done before the Ansett collapse and Sep 11th and the aviation world has changed. Qantas is out to capture 70-80% of the Australian domestic market and Impulse/NJS are helping them do that, but Qantas are now also the sole carry on many routes and are searching for extra capacity hence the order and options for the 737-800.
I don't think Qantas will stop their deals with Impulse/NJS, but I can't see them expanding Impulse/NJS.
[ 01 November 2001: Message edited by: ComeByChance ]
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All very valid points people - love your work!
Reason for my interest is primarily because of November 11th - the day when QF decide, under the terms of the 'honeymoon peiod', to either:
1) Purchase Impulse outright or
2) Continue as present as a wet lease operation
Admittedly, I don't know nor am experienced in the true costs of one versus the other, but I would have imagined bringing us all in under the QF banner would be cheaper (instead of conferring with Impulse - as the middleman - about schedule and price charges per flight, they could absorb the company and reap the benefits of (perhaps) further flexibility in the operation) - I admit I may be wrong on this one, so don't crucify me for it!!!
LST isn't a terribly busy route for us - but isn't cheaper to operate a 717 over a 146??
Reason for my interest is primarily because of November 11th - the day when QF decide, under the terms of the 'honeymoon peiod', to either:
1) Purchase Impulse outright or
2) Continue as present as a wet lease operation
Admittedly, I don't know nor am experienced in the true costs of one versus the other, but I would have imagined bringing us all in under the QF banner would be cheaper (instead of conferring with Impulse - as the middleman - about schedule and price charges per flight, they could absorb the company and reap the benefits of (perhaps) further flexibility in the operation) - I admit I may be wrong on this one, so don't crucify me for it!!!
LST isn't a terribly busy route for us - but isn't cheaper to operate a 717 over a 146??
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Starbuc,
I will spell it again for you, O-W-N. Qantas OWN Eastern, Southern and Sunstate, therefore if they make a PROFIT it goes back to QANTAS and the shareholders, they don't have to pass any of it onto third party contractors. The shareholders of Qantas are therefore sharholders in Eastern, Southern and Sunstate, they are not shareholders of Impulse and NJS.
If you read the last line of my post you will see I said Qantas would not dump Impulse or NJS, but they won't expand past the current size with Qantas taking up to 65 737-800 (includes the options).
airbrake42,
Yes there has been expansion of af 146 flying at NJS, but didn't Easterns Dash 8 just replace the 146 on the NTL-MEL route. And last year Qantas Mainline took over what was a 146 route from CNS-ASP and put a 737 on it. Part of the concept of the Australian Airlines(Qantas)/Airlink was the 146's would operate on routes that could not support the mainline larger aircraft. If traffic did build up and required the larger type (B737) then it would replace the smaller 146.
Qantas are doing this now. The Impulse 717 aircraft that were operating to CG have been replaced by 767 and 737. Qantas have also replaced the 717 on the ML-MCY route with a 737. In turn the 717 has replaced the 146 on routes into Tassie. Whay have they done this, because they demand is there for the larger type, more pax means more money, which means more PROFIT.
[ 02 November 2001: Message edited by: ComeByChance ]
I will spell it again for you, O-W-N. Qantas OWN Eastern, Southern and Sunstate, therefore if they make a PROFIT it goes back to QANTAS and the shareholders, they don't have to pass any of it onto third party contractors. The shareholders of Qantas are therefore sharholders in Eastern, Southern and Sunstate, they are not shareholders of Impulse and NJS.
If you read the last line of my post you will see I said Qantas would not dump Impulse or NJS, but they won't expand past the current size with Qantas taking up to 65 737-800 (includes the options).
airbrake42,
Yes there has been expansion of af 146 flying at NJS, but didn't Easterns Dash 8 just replace the 146 on the NTL-MEL route. And last year Qantas Mainline took over what was a 146 route from CNS-ASP and put a 737 on it. Part of the concept of the Australian Airlines(Qantas)/Airlink was the 146's would operate on routes that could not support the mainline larger aircraft. If traffic did build up and required the larger type (B737) then it would replace the smaller 146.
Qantas are doing this now. The Impulse 717 aircraft that were operating to CG have been replaced by 767 and 737. Qantas have also replaced the 717 on the ML-MCY route with a 737. In turn the 717 has replaced the 146 on routes into Tassie. Whay have they done this, because they demand is there for the larger type, more pax means more money, which means more PROFIT.
[ 02 November 2001: Message edited by: ComeByChance ]
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If Qantas do purchase Impulse could the 737-800's then go to Impulse? Does anyone know if Impulse could be broken up, the 717 fleet to Qantas and the 1900 fleet remains with Impulse?
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Impulse's future is very bright. Once Qantas complete the purchase the B1900s will be painted in Qantas colours. The B1900 fleet is also to be expanded with the arrival of 1-2 more this year.
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Comebychance,
you miss the point. You said NJS will not get any bigger. WRONG.
The reason the Dash took over the NTL-ML route was that the 146 was required to fly MT ISA twice a day, that may change as more jets become available, whether it be 146,717 or 737, and yes a 737 did take over one of the CS-AYR services however that aircraft (146) was immediately used on other sectors not replaced relocated.
With all that has been going on NJS have been growing the whole time, based on hours flown, aircraft numbers, another QLink Dash started out of Perth last week as well as more 146's and a considerable amount of recruiting. So in answer to your question they have,are and hopefully will continue to grow in the longer term.
The 717 is NOT a suitable replacement, simply doesn't have the range for some sectors. passenger numbers are not high enough for other sectors. They really are an east coast short sector machine.
[ 03 November 2001: Message edited by: airbrake42 ]
you miss the point. You said NJS will not get any bigger. WRONG.
The reason the Dash took over the NTL-ML route was that the 146 was required to fly MT ISA twice a day, that may change as more jets become available, whether it be 146,717 or 737, and yes a 737 did take over one of the CS-AYR services however that aircraft (146) was immediately used on other sectors not replaced relocated.
With all that has been going on NJS have been growing the whole time, based on hours flown, aircraft numbers, another QLink Dash started out of Perth last week as well as more 146's and a considerable amount of recruiting. So in answer to your question they have,are and hopefully will continue to grow in the longer term.
The 717 is NOT a suitable replacement, simply doesn't have the range for some sectors. passenger numbers are not high enough for other sectors. They really are an east coast short sector machine.
[ 03 November 2001: Message edited by: airbrake42 ]
