Cockpit visits
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: NSW, AUSTRALIA
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Cockpit visits
G'day folks,
Just wondering what the current situation is regarding visits to the flight deck ??
Ive got a domestic (744) QF flight in the new year and would love to get up front.... What are my chances ??
Thanks
Just wondering what the current situation is regarding visits to the flight deck ??
Ive got a domestic (744) QF flight in the new year and would love to get up front.... What are my chances ??
Thanks
What a bummer. I'm flying SY-ML-SY next week with QF and was thinking there may be a glimmer of hope, but guess not.
It's gonna be real hard sitting down the back in cattle class wishing I was up front.
Oh well, it's all for a very good reason I spose.
Cheers,
TL
It's gonna be real hard sitting down the back in cattle class wishing I was up front.
Oh well, it's all for a very good reason I spose.
Cheers,
TL
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You MAY be able to, IF you get one of these nice Marshals to escort you...... 
(QUOTE)
Marshals for Christmas flights
From AAP
16dec01
ARMED sky marshals will be placed on domestic flights in time for the Christmas travel rush as the cabinet prepares to approve a range of counter-terrorism measures.
Federal cabinet meets for the last time this year tomorrow and Tuesday in Sydney and Attorney-General Daryl Williams said improved national security measures would be announced soon.
Before last month's federal election, the government promised to give ASIO extra powers to investigate terrorism, allowing officers to question, investigate and detain terrorist suspects for up to 48 hours.
A law specifically relating to the act of terrorism would be introduced, carrying a maximum penalty of life imprisonment, and the Crimes Act would be amended to allow terrorist assets to be seized.
Mr Williams said a related offence of preparing or planning terrorist attacks would also be introduced when parliament resumes next February.
"As a result of a high-level review of Australia's counter-terrorism arrangements, recommendations to further strengthen these arrangements are currently before cabinet and will be announced shortly," he said in a statement.
Unions today launched a nationwide protest at what they said was lax airport security in the wake of the September 11 terrorist attacks in the United States.
The Australian Liquor, Hospitality and Miscellaneous Workers Union handed out bogus boarding passes at Sydney Airport's Qantas domestic terminal, telling passengers their safety was at risk.
The union called on the government to introduce a national five-point safety plan, including uniform security standards on all flights, upgrading of screening equipment, a national training standard for security officers and a 20 per cent wage increase over two years.
The union's national secretary Jeff Lawrence said Australia lagged behind the US and Canada in terms of measures implemented since September 11 and there was virtually no screening of cabin baggage at regional airports.
"Australian passengers are much less safe than in comparable countries around the world," he said.
"Our members report no significant changes in screening and security, no upgrading of equipment, skills and training since September 11."
But Mr Williams labelled the union claims ill-informed and irresponsible.
He said the government would come good on its promise to introduce sky marshals by the end of the year, with the first expected to be in place by Christmas.
"Security at all major airports has been strengthened, including upgrading of the screening of passengers and luggage," he said.
"The Australian public can be assured that the government is absolutely committed to the protection of our national security."
Justice Minister Chris Ellison's office said there would be 22 sky marshals in the first batch, Australian Protective Services officers trained in consultation with US experts and state and federal police.
The coalition has also promised a national security summit to discuss giving the commonwealth more power to fight terrorism.
A spokesman for Prime Minister John Howard said no date had yet been set for the summit.
(QUOTE)
Marshals for Christmas flights
From AAP
16dec01
ARMED sky marshals will be placed on domestic flights in time for the Christmas travel rush as the cabinet prepares to approve a range of counter-terrorism measures.
Federal cabinet meets for the last time this year tomorrow and Tuesday in Sydney and Attorney-General Daryl Williams said improved national security measures would be announced soon.
Before last month's federal election, the government promised to give ASIO extra powers to investigate terrorism, allowing officers to question, investigate and detain terrorist suspects for up to 48 hours.
A law specifically relating to the act of terrorism would be introduced, carrying a maximum penalty of life imprisonment, and the Crimes Act would be amended to allow terrorist assets to be seized.
Mr Williams said a related offence of preparing or planning terrorist attacks would also be introduced when parliament resumes next February.
"As a result of a high-level review of Australia's counter-terrorism arrangements, recommendations to further strengthen these arrangements are currently before cabinet and will be announced shortly," he said in a statement.
Unions today launched a nationwide protest at what they said was lax airport security in the wake of the September 11 terrorist attacks in the United States.
The Australian Liquor, Hospitality and Miscellaneous Workers Union handed out bogus boarding passes at Sydney Airport's Qantas domestic terminal, telling passengers their safety was at risk.
The union called on the government to introduce a national five-point safety plan, including uniform security standards on all flights, upgrading of screening equipment, a national training standard for security officers and a 20 per cent wage increase over two years.
The union's national secretary Jeff Lawrence said Australia lagged behind the US and Canada in terms of measures implemented since September 11 and there was virtually no screening of cabin baggage at regional airports.
"Australian passengers are much less safe than in comparable countries around the world," he said.
"Our members report no significant changes in screening and security, no upgrading of equipment, skills and training since September 11."
But Mr Williams labelled the union claims ill-informed and irresponsible.
He said the government would come good on its promise to introduce sky marshals by the end of the year, with the first expected to be in place by Christmas.
"Security at all major airports has been strengthened, including upgrading of the screening of passengers and luggage," he said.
"The Australian public can be assured that the government is absolutely committed to the protection of our national security."
Justice Minister Chris Ellison's office said there would be 22 sky marshals in the first batch, Australian Protective Services officers trained in consultation with US experts and state and federal police.
The coalition has also promised a national security summit to discuss giving the commonwealth more power to fight terrorism.
A spokesman for Prime Minister John Howard said no date had yet been set for the summit.
Nunc est bibendum
I wonder how many 6-12 year olds won't now become pilots because they didn't visit the flight deck as a kid!!
Very sad to have to knock them back. Perhaps if we get some real door security we may begin to allow kids back up again or some way of getting visits.
I'm sure most of the blokes I've been flying with have been wishing we could get visitors back in again. I'm sick of me after a couple of hours too!!
Very sad to have to knock them back. Perhaps if we get some real door security we may begin to allow kids back up again or some way of getting visits.
I'm sure most of the blokes I've been flying with have been wishing we could get visitors back in again. I'm sick of me after a couple of hours too!!
Keg,
That is sooo true. I still have photos of me sitting up front of a B747 enroute to HNL as a 5 year old. I have no doubt that this had something to do with me choosing to enter the flying fraternity.
Cheers,
TL
That is sooo true. I still have photos of me sitting up front of a B747 enroute to HNL as a 5 year old. I have no doubt that this had something to do with me choosing to enter the flying fraternity.
Cheers,
TL
I agree, I have no doubt cockpit rides since I was 9 years old shaped my desire to be a pilot. My old man worked at one of the majors and I grew up having rides in the jump, as I got older I remember the looks some of the younger kids(and their parents) got when the Captain opened up the door and let everyone come up for a look, very sad to see that the events of one day have changed this forever, I'm certainly glad for my memories and experiences sitting upfront
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I would prefer some discretion be returned to the Captain. A blanket ban is a sop to panicky Business class pasengers and nothing else.
If I know the person who wants to visit, I should be allowed to let them do so. Banning dead heading crew and kids is ridiculous.
If I know the person who wants to visit, I should be allowed to let them do so. Banning dead heading crew and kids is ridiculous.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Unfortunately it's TRUE.........NO more cockpit visitors, regardless of previous experience.
Sept 11 has been a "watershed" for jump seaters!!
Unless you have prior clearance, don't bother even thinking about it!
Sorry folks, that's just the way it is!!
Sept 11 has been a "watershed" for jump seaters!!
Unless you have prior clearance, don't bother even thinking about it!
Sorry folks, that's just the way it is!!
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The last time I was in the jump seat it occured to me that being smack bang in the middle of the entrance to the cockpit might actually be an impediment to a terrorist trying to get at the pilots.
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djembe56,
That would certainly be true on some aircraft, for sure DC9s/MD80s and probably others, but not all of course.
I remember one night in Townsville, about 30 odd years ago, receiving a DC9 direct from Brisbane. One of the Hostesses (as they were called then) had occupied the jump seat ex Brisbane as the flight was not that full, the seat became jammed and she had to stay there for the whole flight until I could lift her out over the seat and release the seat. 
There was NO way anyone could have got at those Pilots, not sure about the Hostess
Best regards,
"lame"
That would certainly be true on some aircraft, for sure DC9s/MD80s and probably others, but not all of course.
I remember one night in Townsville, about 30 odd years ago, receiving a DC9 direct from Brisbane. One of the Hostesses (as they were called then) had occupied the jump seat ex Brisbane as the flight was not that full, the seat became jammed and she had to stay there for the whole flight
until I could lift her out over the seat and release the seat. There was NO way anyone could have got at those Pilots, not sure about the Hostess
Best regards,
"lame"
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It is a shame. Like many, I was fortunate enough to get a few jumpseat trips as a teenager. These really cemented my desire to fly for an airline. In more recent times, I have enjoyed having flight deck visitors, not only for the expression it leaves on kids' faces, but because I felt I was continuing the privilege extended to me.
To give you some idea of how off limits the flightdeck is, I recently took my father on a trip. He is terminally ill, and it was the first time (and potentially the last time) that he has ever flown with me in any thing larger than a metro. I couldn't even let him visit me in the cruise, let alone have him in the jumpseat for takeoff and landing.
To give you some idea of how off limits the flightdeck is, I recently took my father on a trip. He is terminally ill, and it was the first time (and potentially the last time) that he has ever flown with me in any thing larger than a metro. I couldn't even let him visit me in the cruise, let alone have him in the jumpseat for takeoff and landing.
Join Date: Mar 2000
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I'll never forget sitting in the cockpit of an AN 727 with christmas cake and a VB mmmmmmmmmm years ago but memorable.
Its a real ****** now though, no escaping that passenger you don't want to sit next to (or the missus) for a quick wander to the pointy end.
Now if you want to go you'll just have to get that airline job.
Its a real ****** now though, no escaping that passenger you don't want to sit next to (or the missus) for a quick wander to the pointy end.
Now if you want to go you'll just have to get that airline job.
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Hijacker: "excuse me sir/madam may I visit the flight deck"
F/A: "No, I am sorry sir, visits are not allowed since 11/9.
Hijacker to fellow Hijacker: "dam now how do we get up there???"
What a load of poorly thought out non sense, like some body previously said to cater for irrational business class passengers.
Along similar lines, I noticed that protesters have broken into lucas heights!!! High security. CRAP. They just walked in!
All that has changed is some obvious changes so the general public thinks that government and airlines are doing their job.
I would much rather see a secure cockpit door than Rambo in the cabin.
F/A: "No, I am sorry sir, visits are not allowed since 11/9.
Hijacker to fellow Hijacker: "dam now how do we get up there???"
What a load of poorly thought out non sense, like some body previously said to cater for irrational business class passengers.
Along similar lines, I noticed that protesters have broken into lucas heights!!! High security. CRAP. They just walked in!
All that has changed is some obvious changes so the general public thinks that government and airlines are doing their job.
I would much rather see a secure cockpit door than Rambo in the cabin.
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The Airlines accountants see the need to be "seen" to be doing something about security so that the passengers will still see "their" airline as the preferred one.
They have transferred that "fear" to Flt Ops via the regulators who have followed the push from the pollies who need to be seen to be "security aware".
You can reinforce as much of the door, insert pins, locks, passwords, marshalls and as much operational inconveniance as you like, but if you just kept them off the A/C in the first place by a better security system the job of the "AVIATOR" would be a lot easier.
No staff travel. Why not? The extra person in the cockpit would enhance the security, make the access for food/drink much easier and SECURE, as getting out of the operational seat, unlocking the door after checking the identity of the caller, getting the refreshments organised, relocking the door, back in the seat, find the tray on the floor and enjoy!!!.
All so we can have the facard of SECURITY.
On 2 crew long sectors it is IMHO a degridation to the safe operation of the Aircraft.
It is taking a lot of the enjoyment out of the job in the last year or so of so much good fun over the last 40.
To the guy with his Dad, Stuff 'em, get him on again, give the chief pilot the call and get an approval, YOUR DAD IS THAT IMPORTANT!!! and even Chief pilots sometimes have Dads too, not often, but sometimes they are mortals.
Off to the locked room again, got to increase the profits of the boss.
They have transferred that "fear" to Flt Ops via the regulators who have followed the push from the pollies who need to be seen to be "security aware".
You can reinforce as much of the door, insert pins, locks, passwords, marshalls and as much operational inconveniance as you like, but if you just kept them off the A/C in the first place by a better security system the job of the "AVIATOR" would be a lot easier.
No staff travel. Why not? The extra person in the cockpit would enhance the security, make the access for food/drink much easier and SECURE, as getting out of the operational seat, unlocking the door after checking the identity of the caller, getting the refreshments organised, relocking the door, back in the seat, find the tray on the floor and enjoy!!!.
All so we can have the facard of SECURITY.
On 2 crew long sectors it is IMHO a degridation to the safe operation of the Aircraft.
It is taking a lot of the enjoyment out of the job in the last year or so of so much good fun over the last 40.
To the guy with his Dad, Stuff 'em, get him on again, give the chief pilot the call and get an approval, YOUR DAD IS THAT IMPORTANT!!! and even Chief pilots sometimes have Dads too, not often, but sometimes they are mortals.
Off to the locked room again, got to increase the profits of the boss.
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I believe greybeard is correct. The banning of flightdeck visits has as much to do with keeping valuable corporate customers happy (and therefore keeping their accounts) as to do with security.
On the subject of security, the best method is a layered defence (don't put all your eggs in on basket). ie concentrating on on aspect only (screening, flight deck door security etc) is not the optimum defence.
Rather you should:
Don't let them buy a ticket (pax profiling, watch lists from security forces etc).
If they do buy a ticket, don't let them check-in (once again profiling etc).
If they do check-in, don't let them board the aircraft (security screening, random body searches etc).
If they do board the aircraft, don't let them out of the cabin (sky marshalls, flight attendents, pax etc).
If they do leave the cabin, don't let them enter the flight deck (secure door, controlled access etc).
If they do enter the flight deck, don't let them get control of the aircraft (????).
In this way a terrorist has to get past multiple defences and the difficulty in doing so increases exponentially.
On the subject of security, the best method is a layered defence (don't put all your eggs in on basket). ie concentrating on on aspect only (screening, flight deck door security etc) is not the optimum defence.
Rather you should:
Don't let them buy a ticket (pax profiling, watch lists from security forces etc).
If they do buy a ticket, don't let them check-in (once again profiling etc).
If they do check-in, don't let them board the aircraft (security screening, random body searches etc).
If they do board the aircraft, don't let them out of the cabin (sky marshalls, flight attendents, pax etc).
If they do leave the cabin, don't let them enter the flight deck (secure door, controlled access etc).
If they do enter the flight deck, don't let them get control of the aircraft (????).
In this way a terrorist has to get past multiple defences and the difficulty in doing so increases exponentially.