B717 Finished ?
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B717 Finished ?
A aviation news item in the U.S suggests Boeing are concerned about the B717 program with orders slower than anticipated. My guess is that production will cease next year.
With United grounding a further 75 aircraft and American announcing they are fighting for their survival and will have to ground further aircraft who will want to purchase new aircraft over the next few years.
With United grounding a further 75 aircraft and American announcing they are fighting for their survival and will have to ground further aircraft who will want to purchase new aircraft over the next few years.
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Aus. Aviation had an article in October issue that says that the 717 orders are decreasing, and that the production line will slow down next year (would have to check the article again to get numbers).
Add to that the fact that the 717 line has not hit targetted production numbers yet at all, and i think it is safe to say that it is probably going to shut down within the next two years.
Pity, as its a very economic aircraft, quiet and comfy. A better run of luck and it might have followed in the 73's footsteps.
Add to that the fact that the 717 line has not hit targetted production numbers yet at all, and i think it is safe to say that it is probably going to shut down within the next two years.
Pity, as its a very economic aircraft, quiet and comfy. A better run of luck and it might have followed in the 73's footsteps.
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Termination of the B717 was always on the cards. This aircraft was originally conceived by Douglas Aircraft Corporation as the MD95 (back in 1990), with the idea that it would successfully grow into a stretched series of aircraft like the original DC9 family. DC-9's started with the DC9-10 (essentially a 50 seat regional jet), and ultimately stretched into the MD-90 (a twin engined alternative to the B727). Unfortunately, Douglas Aircraft folded into Boeing and the 737NG family (dash 600 to dash 900), has run away with the 'family' prize.
These 737NG aircraft, with their very superior range and comparable economics, ultimately in my view will run commercial 'rings' around the single B717-200 product.
Its a real pity, as I'm sure most will agree that the B717/MD-95 is a beautiful aircraft in many respects!!
The oracle!!
These 737NG aircraft, with their very superior range and comparable economics, ultimately in my view will run commercial 'rings' around the single B717-200 product.
Its a real pity, as I'm sure most will agree that the B717/MD-95 is a beautiful aircraft in many respects!!
The oracle!!
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The important thing to remember here is the price difference between the 717 and 737. About 37 to 55 million US.
The only thing really hurting the 717 is its uniqueness in regards to crew training.
The only thing really hurting the 717 is its uniqueness in regards to crew training.
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Impulse/Qantas are very happy with the 717 and a strong rumour doing the rounds is they want another 8 aircraft by early next year.
The problem they have is finding the aircraft, with all the current aircraft under production already sold/leased.
[ 03 October 2001: Message edited by: Ramrod ]
The problem they have is finding the aircraft, with all the current aircraft under production already sold/leased.
[ 03 October 2001: Message edited by: Ramrod ]
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Now Boeing are saying it may be finished, along with the whole Long Beach Plant....
BOEING BUSINESS: COMMERCIAL...
In addition to the 20,000 to 30,000 mostly commercial business jobs
Boeing will slice out of its ranks by the end of next year, Chairman
Phil Condit Thursday warned that the production of the 717 -- already
experiencing anemic sales -- may be halted all together. Condit
explained that the company examined the benefit of each production line
and found them all to be economically viable ... except one. Along with
the 717, the future of the company's Long Beach, Calif., plant is now in
question.
BOEING BUSINESS: COMMERCIAL...
In addition to the 20,000 to 30,000 mostly commercial business jobs
Boeing will slice out of its ranks by the end of next year, Chairman
Phil Condit Thursday warned that the production of the 717 -- already
experiencing anemic sales -- may be halted all together. Condit
explained that the company examined the benefit of each production line
and found them all to be economically viable ... except one. Along with
the 717, the future of the company's Long Beach, Calif., plant is now in
question.
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Boeing lose money on every B717 sold. They did not want to put the B717 into production but the suppliers to McDonnell had water tight agreements.
To cut a long story short it was cheaper to honour the supply cotracts and produce a certain number of a/c than to face the suppliers in court.
To cut a long story short it was cheaper to honour the supply cotracts and produce a certain number of a/c than to face the suppliers in court.
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End of the line looms large for Boeing's 717 jet
LOS ANGELES - It was meant to capture the market for short-haul air travel. But after years of struggling to get off the ground, Boeing Co's smallest commercial jet - the 717 - may have only a matter of weeks left to prove it really has wings.
Boeing said last week it would evaluate the 717, its one commercial jet whose long-term viability is 'in question', and decide on the plane's fate as early as by year-end.
A decision to stop making the 106-seat jet would affect the 3,000 people who now work on production in Long Beach, California.
Another 1,800 who provide support for the programme could also be affected.
Cancellation would also mark the end of an era for commercial jet production in Southern California, which has given the world such jet- liners as the DC-8, DC-9, DC-10, MD-80, MD-90 and MD-11.
In fact, the 717 is the lone commercial jetliner that Boeing decided to keep after purchasing rival McDonnell Douglas in 1997.
In February, Boeing delivered its last MD-11, ending an era of production for jets bearing the McDonnell Douglas name.
The 717 - once considered a rising star in the expected market for short-haul airliners - has struggled for most of its brief life, attracting firm orders for 137 planes to date.
Boeing has said it needs to sell 200 of the planes for the programme to break even.
'We are going to look at it again, one more time,' said Mr Alan Mulally, chief executive of Boeing's commercial jet unit, in a conference call last week to discuss the company's third-quarter results.
'We are going to look at it very carefully.'
He added that the travel crisis that began with the Sept 11 air attacks in New York and Washington, which led many airlines to cut capacity by about 20 per cent, has further clouded the picture.
Since the crisis began, Boeing and most of the major airlines have laid off thousands of workers in a bid to stay afloat. --Reuters
LOS ANGELES - It was meant to capture the market for short-haul air travel. But after years of struggling to get off the ground, Boeing Co's smallest commercial jet - the 717 - may have only a matter of weeks left to prove it really has wings.
Boeing said last week it would evaluate the 717, its one commercial jet whose long-term viability is 'in question', and decide on the plane's fate as early as by year-end.
A decision to stop making the 106-seat jet would affect the 3,000 people who now work on production in Long Beach, California.
Another 1,800 who provide support for the programme could also be affected.
Cancellation would also mark the end of an era for commercial jet production in Southern California, which has given the world such jet- liners as the DC-8, DC-9, DC-10, MD-80, MD-90 and MD-11.
In fact, the 717 is the lone commercial jetliner that Boeing decided to keep after purchasing rival McDonnell Douglas in 1997.
In February, Boeing delivered its last MD-11, ending an era of production for jets bearing the McDonnell Douglas name.
The 717 - once considered a rising star in the expected market for short-haul airliners - has struggled for most of its brief life, attracting firm orders for 137 planes to date.
Boeing has said it needs to sell 200 of the planes for the programme to break even.
'We are going to look at it again, one more time,' said Mr Alan Mulally, chief executive of Boeing's commercial jet unit, in a conference call last week to discuss the company's third-quarter results.
'We are going to look at it very carefully.'
He added that the travel crisis that began with the Sept 11 air attacks in New York and Washington, which led many airlines to cut capacity by about 20 per cent, has further clouded the picture.
Since the crisis began, Boeing and most of the major airlines have laid off thousands of workers in a bid to stay afloat. --Reuters
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essjay,
Yeah, you have to carry ballast around if you are ferrying the thing! A lot of aircraft are the same! Gees! You had to put a s@it load of fuel in the guts of a 727 if you just had to tow it!
Gaunty, the only real problem with the jet, is that it's actually too light down the back! (Due to lighter engines and the removal of the airstairs) Unfortunately the aft cargo is small and fills up mighty quick. Therefore it is limited on how much can be crammed in the forward hold, due to C of G. Boeing stuff-up. Maybe if the aft cargo was lined with lead we could effectively carry more freight.
Will be sad to see the end of the Long Beach plant, and the end of MD products. I believe that in the future (now a few years off though due to Sept.11) their will still be a market for this size jet in the States.
To the DC-9/MD-80/MD-90/B717 Series, some of the best looking and versatile aircraft built. I think a lot of people out there will miss 'em.
Cheers!
GTG!
Yeah, you have to carry ballast around if you are ferrying the thing! A lot of aircraft are the same! Gees! You had to put a s@it load of fuel in the guts of a 727 if you just had to tow it!
Gaunty, the only real problem with the jet, is that it's actually too light down the back! (Due to lighter engines and the removal of the airstairs) Unfortunately the aft cargo is small and fills up mighty quick. Therefore it is limited on how much can be crammed in the forward hold, due to C of G. Boeing stuff-up. Maybe if the aft cargo was lined with lead we could effectively carry more freight.
Will be sad to see the end of the Long Beach plant, and the end of MD products. I believe that in the future (now a few years off though due to Sept.11) their will still be a market for this size jet in the States.
To the DC-9/MD-80/MD-90/B717 Series, some of the best looking and versatile aircraft built. I think a lot of people out there will miss 'em.
Cheers!
GTG!
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GTG,
IF that is all the problem is, about ballast etc when the aircraft is empty or lightly loaded, then that is no big deal as you say..
The DC9 freighters were the same, but the other way round. Because of the heavy hushkitted JT8Ds, and one aircraft still had airstairs too, they were too heavy aft when empty, IF you were ferrying the aircraft as we often did, you had to have ballast in the forward cabin or forward locker to be able to fly it.
It was attempted once or twice to go without, but then the crew couldn't steer the thing...
Best regards,
"lame"
IF that is all the problem is, about ballast etc when the aircraft is empty or lightly loaded, then that is no big deal as you say..
The DC9 freighters were the same, but the other way round. Because of the heavy hushkitted JT8Ds, and one aircraft still had airstairs too, they were too heavy aft when empty, IF you were ferrying the aircraft as we often did, you had to have ballast in the forward cabin or forward locker to be able to fly it.
It was attempted once or twice to go without, but then the crew couldn't steer the thing...
Best regards,
"lame"
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GoodToGo You sure about the lighter engines???
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I thought the BR715's actually weighed in heavier than anticipated, hence the absence of the rear airstair and ballast attachment points up forward (3,500 lbs or so aside isn't it?) for keeping the nose down when undergoing maintenance and stuff while completly empty.
The up side of the BR715 equation was much better than expected fuel burn so all was forgiven.
You are right, a nice aircraft that deserves a better fate.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I thought the BR715's actually weighed in heavier than anticipated, hence the absence of the rear airstair and ballast attachment points up forward (3,500 lbs or so aside isn't it?) for keeping the nose down when undergoing maintenance and stuff while completly empty.
The up side of the BR715 equation was much better than expected fuel burn so all was forgiven.
You are right, a nice aircraft that deserves a better fate.
Nice aircraft that deserved a better fate? Here's one rather unique Douglas Commercial that should have had a greater future than it did.
Question for the Douglas Commercial fans:
Which Douglas Commercial (DC) were there only twelve built, all of which went to Indonesia with six ending up in Australia with Australian civil registrations?
Clue: Not one example survives today.
Question for the Douglas Commercial fans:
Which Douglas Commercial (DC) were there only twelve built, all of which went to Indonesia with six ending up in Australia with Australian civil registrations?
Clue: Not one example survives today.
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So where would this leave Impulse? If you believe the rumours and what has been written aviation mags they are still looking at another 8-12 aircaft. If Boeing cancel the B717 it could become a very expensive aircraft (ie parts) in the future.
The B717 could very quickly become an orphan.
The B717 could very quickly become an orphan.
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Midwest Express have just placed firm orders for 20 B717 aircraft. Airtran are still looking at taking their 47 options and Northwest are also looking at a large order (They are also looking at the A318). The current firm order total is now 157 aircraft.
If Airtran do take their options that would put firm orders over 200 and there are still those rumours that Impulse will end up with a total fleet of 20.
Torres, My guess is also the DC5. From memory it was a mid-wing fat looking aircraft.
If Airtran do take their options that would put firm orders over 200 and there are still those rumours that Impulse will end up with a total fleet of 20.
Torres, My guess is also the DC5. From memory it was a mid-wing fat looking aircraft.
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Ramrod. The Midwest Express order for 20 a/c was placed in April 2001 with deliveries commencing in 2003 at the rate of 4 a year. The B717 will be long gone by then. Also I wager the price negotiated looks expensive in todays market place.
Airtran may be gone by the time you read this or say the end of the year. Their equity as a % of assets is 0.9%. They are extremely short of working capital and their current liabilities as a % of equity is 4354%.
Northwest will still be looking in 3 years time and will probably order the next generation Do928.
You may be aware Boeing have only delivered 81 B717's. My guess is that production will cease with completion of line number 100 !.
Airtran may be gone by the time you read this or say the end of the year. Their equity as a % of assets is 0.9%. They are extremely short of working capital and their current liabilities as a % of equity is 4354%.
Northwest will still be looking in 3 years time and will probably order the next generation Do928.
You may be aware Boeing have only delivered 81 B717's. My guess is that production will cease with completion of line number 100 !.