Being a Positive Influence in Changing the Future of Our Aviation Industry & Communit
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Dog- . .Your obvious passion for Aviation is shared by most of us!. .Aviation personnel across the spectrum turn up each day largely because we wouldn’t want to work in any other industry!
[quote] . .Charlie again.. . .
Most including Flight training organisations, small Charter etc have seen the results of past changes made in regards to service levels, “User pays” etc. Which brings us to the debate today! –. .How do we cut costs Safely? - Can that be achieved without wholesale slashing and burning of the infrustructure we have left?. .Aviation Infrastructure has been sectionalised, corporatised and where able privatised. As a result Industry receive multiple bills from many! Each of these separate organisations must have administrative structures that were previously less in number as there were fewer organisations and therefore less cost? Not to mention the cost of administering “User pays” . .I am not an economist! However the effect on industry is clearly visible.. .This is largely the result of a well-known crusader purporting to save Industry huge cost. I think the term “ Affordable safety” might also have been used!
CFI Can see the forest! <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> . . . . [quote] . .Tell me then, who is pricing aviation these days?. .<hr></blockquote>
A good start might be the Federal Government! Maybe removing the profit/dividend requirement placed on services by the Fed's might save a few dollars!. .A Government department if instructed to do so can charge for revenue neutral or subsidise if unable to charge a reasonable amount to recoup costs! . .A private service has but one motive! <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
[quote] . .To practically everyone,. .Why on earth tear down someone like Aussie Pilot in regards to what he has to say, he truly believes that aviation, with some prodding from organisations, can become worthwhile again. . .Almost all of you have said something along the lines of "like your heart, right attitude, I want changes too", but it seems like its just too hard for a lot of you folk out there to make a change. . .'Tis easier to criticise than to assist.. .<hr></blockquote>
Aviation is always worthwhile! Ya just got to grin and bare the C#$Kheads! <img src="redface.gif" border="0"> . .If you can solve the many and varied issues confronting us- Please! the floor is yours. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
Change for changes sake has already been tried! Lets not go there again! <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
[quote] . .Charlie again.. . .
. .quote:
Most of us GA operators are too busy running our businesses to get involved in "tearing the industry apart <hr></blockquote>
Bingo. Excellent attitude to have. . .I commend you on seeing the trees and not the forest.
Most of us GA operators are too busy running our businesses to get involved in "tearing the industry apart <hr></blockquote>
Bingo. Excellent attitude to have. . .I commend you on seeing the trees and not the forest.
CFI Can see the forest! <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> . . . . [quote] . .Tell me then, who is pricing aviation these days?. .<hr></blockquote>
A good start might be the Federal Government! Maybe removing the profit/dividend requirement placed on services by the Fed's might save a few dollars!. .A Government department if instructed to do so can charge for revenue neutral or subsidise if unable to charge a reasonable amount to recoup costs! . .A private service has but one motive! <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
[quote] . .To practically everyone,. .Why on earth tear down someone like Aussie Pilot in regards to what he has to say, he truly believes that aviation, with some prodding from organisations, can become worthwhile again. . .Almost all of you have said something along the lines of "like your heart, right attitude, I want changes too", but it seems like its just too hard for a lot of you folk out there to make a change. . .'Tis easier to criticise than to assist.. .<hr></blockquote>
Aviation is always worthwhile! Ya just got to grin and bare the C#$Kheads! <img src="redface.gif" border="0"> . .If you can solve the many and varied issues confronting us- Please! the floor is yours. <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
Change for changes sake has already been tried! Lets not go there again! <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
Moderator
When you are in the middle of the forest, you can't help but see the trees that are closest to you.
Read the thread on the runway collision at Jandakot. Having tower hours that reflect traffic density is a change that DOES need to be made. Those are the sorts of changes that need to be made, changes that will improve SAFETY. Sadly, I recall a former prominent AOPA committe member wanting JT turned into a permanent MBZ at one time. So I'm not holding my breath for AOPA to campaign on behalf of the industry on this one.
If there are people who want to make flying cheaper, here's some things that you can do!
. .Ask local govt not to charge rates and water rates for services that we don't get inside the airport boundary.. .Ask the Govt not to charge us land tax on crown land.. .Improve the value of the Aussie dollar against the US dollar so our parts don't cost so much.. .Chat to the guys in OPEC and see if they would like to reduce the price of oil. Then chat to the guys who set the price of AVGAS and see if they would like to pass those savings on to the consumer.. .Then, talk to the government and ask if something can be done about superannuation guarantees not geting any higher than they are now. Then, talk to the compo people and ask them to please reduce their premiums. Then ask the insurance companies if they would like to run at a loss so we don't have to pay so much nasty insurance for our aircraft and our liability insurance for our businesses.
In other words, most of the things that dictate the cost of flying are beyond our control, so we have to set our prices according to market forces, and get on with making a living from our chosen PROFESSION.
Just a few of the trees I can see from my little corner of the woods. <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
[ 24 February 2002: Message edited by: Charlie Foxtrot India ]</p>
Read the thread on the runway collision at Jandakot. Having tower hours that reflect traffic density is a change that DOES need to be made. Those are the sorts of changes that need to be made, changes that will improve SAFETY. Sadly, I recall a former prominent AOPA committe member wanting JT turned into a permanent MBZ at one time. So I'm not holding my breath for AOPA to campaign on behalf of the industry on this one.
If there are people who want to make flying cheaper, here's some things that you can do!
. .Ask local govt not to charge rates and water rates for services that we don't get inside the airport boundary.. .Ask the Govt not to charge us land tax on crown land.. .Improve the value of the Aussie dollar against the US dollar so our parts don't cost so much.. .Chat to the guys in OPEC and see if they would like to reduce the price of oil. Then chat to the guys who set the price of AVGAS and see if they would like to pass those savings on to the consumer.. .Then, talk to the government and ask if something can be done about superannuation guarantees not geting any higher than they are now. Then, talk to the compo people and ask them to please reduce their premiums. Then ask the insurance companies if they would like to run at a loss so we don't have to pay so much nasty insurance for our aircraft and our liability insurance for our businesses.
In other words, most of the things that dictate the cost of flying are beyond our control, so we have to set our prices according to market forces, and get on with making a living from our chosen PROFESSION.
Just a few of the trees I can see from my little corner of the woods. <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
[ 24 February 2002: Message edited by: Charlie Foxtrot India ]</p>
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Good Morning,
I have been wading through what has been written over the weekend and some very interesting and positive comments from some very positive people with great ideas.
I am very surprised at one of the comments about being “amateurs”. You have to realise it is us customers who keep your businesses running. If I am paying for something, I have an invested interest into my return from that industry.
You have to realise if you have no one hiring, training, charters or whatever that involves paying for a service to the aviation industry, then you do not have a business, for much longer. “It is we Customers that keep your businesses going”. Finance comes from providing a professional service.
I think using the comparison to hiring a car to hiring an aircraft was a bad one. When I have had to hire a car, you do not get the organisation checking your logbook and have to do a check ride and pull an engine failure and so on. “I take your point to a degree, but only a point.”
I have to run and I hope you all had a great and productive weekend!
AW <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> <img src="cool.gif" border="0">
[quote]Cut the "im" out of impossible, leading that dynamic word standing out free and clear -- possible. <hr></blockquote>
. . [quote]You can fuss with the birds on the ground or Soar with the Eagles and ride out the storms of life. <hr></blockquote>
[ 25 February 2002: Message edited by: Aussie Pilot ]</p>
I have been wading through what has been written over the weekend and some very interesting and positive comments from some very positive people with great ideas.
I am very surprised at one of the comments about being “amateurs”. You have to realise it is us customers who keep your businesses running. If I am paying for something, I have an invested interest into my return from that industry.
You have to realise if you have no one hiring, training, charters or whatever that involves paying for a service to the aviation industry, then you do not have a business, for much longer. “It is we Customers that keep your businesses going”. Finance comes from providing a professional service.
I think using the comparison to hiring a car to hiring an aircraft was a bad one. When I have had to hire a car, you do not get the organisation checking your logbook and have to do a check ride and pull an engine failure and so on. “I take your point to a degree, but only a point.”
I have to run and I hope you all had a great and productive weekend!
AW <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> <img src="cool.gif" border="0">
[quote]Cut the "im" out of impossible, leading that dynamic word standing out free and clear -- possible. <hr></blockquote>
. . [quote]You can fuss with the birds on the ground or Soar with the Eagles and ride out the storms of life. <hr></blockquote>
[ 25 February 2002: Message edited by: Aussie Pilot ]</p>
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Hello Leadsled, you sound like a mover and shaker who might actually be able to answer some of those simple questions that have alluded scrutiny so far.
Thanks for the info on the Doctor, and very well done to him also, and the wide ranging experience of the Club Captains. Since everything is apparently so dreadful here, and you said it, one wonders how these experts have not managed a slightly better result.
It might of course be much, much worse without you although that is hard to imagine.
Thanks also for telling us how terrific it all is in NZ. Perhaps AOPA NZ have got better answers
You haven't got their contact details have you?
Thanks for the info on the Doctor, and very well done to him also, and the wide ranging experience of the Club Captains. Since everything is apparently so dreadful here, and you said it, one wonders how these experts have not managed a slightly better result.
It might of course be much, much worse without you although that is hard to imagine.
Thanks also for telling us how terrific it all is in NZ. Perhaps AOPA NZ have got better answers
You haven't got their contact details have you?
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snide remark
I think we've got one of those mercilessly cheerful and terrifyingly optimistic happy clappers here, with that childlike and quite charming ingenuousness that makes them totally invulnerable to reality.
It would help if they could get right the quotations from "Pollyannas Big Book of Irritatingly Cheerful Sayings" they got in their Christmas stocking.
Mealy mouthed "fuss with the birds on the ground", <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0"> sheeesh , my version goes something like "I get so sore from having to deal with the turkeys that I can only hope in my wildest dreams to be able to soar with Eagles like Leadsled." <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
I await excitedly for the next little uplifting gem that might, just might give me the inspiration I need to break out of my stupefyingly dull and boring ignorance.
Cheers. .from one know nothing, geriatric/ retired/ unemployed aeroplane salesperson ....with background, directly responsible for the livelihood of over 500 souls 24/7, International Charter Airline operator, GA pilot, and, Charter/Airwork operators, Flying School operator, private aircraft owners over many years, and probably a few more things I don't know about or can't remember, but are probably relevant qualifications, with a tax bill more than a QF drivers salary and who had the good fortune not to become one of those annointed with the superior life skills and knowledge that apparently comes with the package . <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <img src="frown.gif" border="0"> . .gaunty.
[ 25 February 2002: Message edited by: gaunty ]</p>
I think we've got one of those mercilessly cheerful and terrifyingly optimistic happy clappers here, with that childlike and quite charming ingenuousness that makes them totally invulnerable to reality.
It would help if they could get right the quotations from "Pollyannas Big Book of Irritatingly Cheerful Sayings" they got in their Christmas stocking.
Mealy mouthed "fuss with the birds on the ground", <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0"> sheeesh , my version goes something like "I get so sore from having to deal with the turkeys that I can only hope in my wildest dreams to be able to soar with Eagles like Leadsled." <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
I await excitedly for the next little uplifting gem that might, just might give me the inspiration I need to break out of my stupefyingly dull and boring ignorance.
Cheers. .from one know nothing, geriatric/ retired/ unemployed aeroplane salesperson ....with background, directly responsible for the livelihood of over 500 souls 24/7, International Charter Airline operator, GA pilot, and, Charter/Airwork operators, Flying School operator, private aircraft owners over many years, and probably a few more things I don't know about or can't remember, but are probably relevant qualifications, with a tax bill more than a QF drivers salary and who had the good fortune not to become one of those annointed with the superior life skills and knowledge that apparently comes with the package . <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <img src="frown.gif" border="0">
. .gaunty.[ 25 February 2002: Message edited by: gaunty ]</p>
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I guess it was a pretty good posting if thats all you *people* can pick on.
Aussie, well done, it shows the calibre of people we are arguing against.
Just make sure you get your spelling right so that they might actually have to think when arguing.
Scary that these people might be *actual* professional pilots with peoples lives in their hands. *Shudder* And also pity they dont carry that professionalism out of the cockpit. Or maybe they dont have it in the cockpit either?!. Makes you wonder doesn't it.
. .Cheers
Dog
[ 25 February 2002: Message edited by: Dogimed ]</p>
Aussie, well done, it shows the calibre of people we are arguing against.
Just make sure you get your spelling right so that they might actually have to think when arguing.
Scary that these people might be *actual* professional pilots with peoples lives in their hands. *Shudder* And also pity they dont carry that professionalism out of the cockpit. Or maybe they dont have it in the cockpit either?!. Makes you wonder doesn't it.
. .Cheers
Dog
[ 25 February 2002: Message edited by: Dogimed ]</p>
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Dogimed old chap
It does indeed "show the calibre of people against whom you are arguing."
Just a bunch of ordinary guys unblessed with QFCaptdom, who just happen to disagree with your point of view, but don't need the homilies or care about the pontifically <img src="tongue.gif" border="0"> attempted put downs <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0"> that are substituted for "argument or discussion" in your part of the world. <img src="redface.gif" border="0">
Real professionals deal with reality, Pollyanna is something I reserve for idle day dreaming whilst supping on a superior singing syrup. <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
We ALL agree that being positive is more constructive than otherwise, but that does not mean, per se, that disagreeing with a point of view is negative.. .Unless of course you want to go back to the highly enlightened religious style of the Star Chamber, burning of heretics and witches or sending the serial unrepentant to hell and damnation. <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> <img src="cool.gif" border="0">
It does indeed "show the calibre of people against whom you are arguing."
Just a bunch of ordinary guys unblessed with QFCaptdom, who just happen to disagree with your point of view, but don't need the homilies or care about the pontifically <img src="tongue.gif" border="0"> attempted put downs <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0"> that are substituted for "argument or discussion" in your part of the world. <img src="redface.gif" border="0">
Real professionals deal with reality, Pollyanna is something I reserve for idle day dreaming whilst supping on a superior singing syrup. <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
We ALL agree that being positive is more constructive than otherwise, but that does not mean, per se, that disagreeing with a point of view is negative.. .Unless of course you want to go back to the highly enlightened religious style of the Star Chamber, burning of heretics and witches or sending the serial unrepentant to hell and damnation. <img src="eek.gif" border="0"> <img src="cool.gif" border="0">
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For the sake of clarity, before a claret!
Aussie Pilot alerts us to "a good thread" in other places and b%##*r me, he wrote it himself!
Creampuff tells us that forum is censored.
Aussie Pilot thinks it should be more censored.
Snide trys to get more information.
Lead Balloon admits to being the antichrist and backs up Creampuff on the censorship issue.
CoodaShooda is confused.
Woomera wades in with nice words and some facts re the attitude of AOPA No1.
Aussie Pilot gets confused about the identity of Lead Balloon, promises Snide some answers and then accuses Snide of fussing over detail.
Snide trys to ask some more questions.
Dogimed asks what the alternative to AOPA is.
Snide still don't know what AOPA think they are.
Aussie Pilot accuses Snide of "Being Happy" Snide still waiting for answers.
Dogimed is worried about CASA knocking on his door. Snide tries to help.
Aussie Pilot thinks that Bob Roberts, Lead Balloon and Creampuff are all one CASA lawyer.
Lead Balloon denies it.
Aussie Pilot confesses to being in "I T"
Velocity asks a very good question. That will be ignored.
My old mate Gaunty comes aboard.
Dogimed thrashes Snide with a lettuce leaf.
Aussie Pilot still hasn't got the answers he promised but he's being ever so nice.
Aussie Pilot is a Dogimed fan.
Creampuff admits to being everyone!
Aussie Pilot is calling Creampuff Bob? I think he's telling Bob, er Creampuff, not to be frightened of him.
Capcom wants some answers too.
CFI isn't fond of Aussie Pilot.
Dogimed isn't fond of AOPA No1. Not too keen on CFI either, or Gaunty and presumably still Snide but still thinks Creampuff is Creampuff.
Icarus 2001 likes CFI.
Dogimed is getting sarky with Icarus 2001.
Icarus 2001 makes a move for the middle ground.
Leadsled bores in and scatters the skittles. His comments are more snide than Snide's, oh s@^t, perhaps he's really me. Waddaa you think Aussie?
But now we are getting the answers we needed so that we could make a reasoned and rational command decision. Leadsled seems to know his AOPA stuff.
NZ GA is Fab!!! OZ GA is furgled!
GA ace proffessionals is bad!!
QF Captains Club is good!!
AOPA is FAB!!! Alphabet soup is bad!
Leadsled says "We can learn a lot from the NZ turn around, but are we able/"
Well OK then, Snide is still up to learn something here.
Snide drags up the IAOPA site so he can make some comparisons.
Now remember, NZ is FAB! AOPA NZ has 475 members and No 1 and 2 are named Richard and Neil with not even a Mr. in sight.
Now Oz is furgled! AOPA Australia has 10,200 members, great men doing great works, and Numbers 1 and 2 are both Capt.
Seems you just can't find a good Richard when you so really need one.
Aussie Pilot alerts us to "a good thread" in other places and b%##*r me, he wrote it himself!
Creampuff tells us that forum is censored.
Aussie Pilot thinks it should be more censored.
Snide trys to get more information.
Lead Balloon admits to being the antichrist and backs up Creampuff on the censorship issue.
CoodaShooda is confused.
Woomera wades in with nice words and some facts re the attitude of AOPA No1.
Aussie Pilot gets confused about the identity of Lead Balloon, promises Snide some answers and then accuses Snide of fussing over detail.
Snide trys to ask some more questions.
Dogimed asks what the alternative to AOPA is.
Snide still don't know what AOPA think they are.
Aussie Pilot accuses Snide of "Being Happy" Snide still waiting for answers.
Dogimed is worried about CASA knocking on his door. Snide tries to help.
Aussie Pilot thinks that Bob Roberts, Lead Balloon and Creampuff are all one CASA lawyer.
Lead Balloon denies it.
Aussie Pilot confesses to being in "I T"
Velocity asks a very good question. That will be ignored.
My old mate Gaunty comes aboard.
Dogimed thrashes Snide with a lettuce leaf.
Aussie Pilot still hasn't got the answers he promised but he's being ever so nice.
Aussie Pilot is a Dogimed fan.
Creampuff admits to being everyone!
Aussie Pilot is calling Creampuff Bob? I think he's telling Bob, er Creampuff, not to be frightened of him.
Capcom wants some answers too.
CFI isn't fond of Aussie Pilot.
Dogimed isn't fond of AOPA No1. Not too keen on CFI either, or Gaunty and presumably still Snide but still thinks Creampuff is Creampuff.
Icarus 2001 likes CFI.
Dogimed is getting sarky with Icarus 2001.
Icarus 2001 makes a move for the middle ground.
Leadsled bores in and scatters the skittles. His comments are more snide than Snide's, oh s@^t, perhaps he's really me. Waddaa you think Aussie?
But now we are getting the answers we needed so that we could make a reasoned and rational command decision. Leadsled seems to know his AOPA stuff.
NZ GA is Fab!!! OZ GA is furgled!
GA ace proffessionals is bad!!
QF Captains Club is good!!
AOPA is FAB!!! Alphabet soup is bad!
Leadsled says "We can learn a lot from the NZ turn around, but are we able/"
Well OK then, Snide is still up to learn something here.
Snide drags up the IAOPA site so he can make some comparisons.
Now remember, NZ is FAB! AOPA NZ has 475 members and No 1 and 2 are named Richard and Neil with not even a Mr. in sight.
Now Oz is furgled! AOPA Australia has 10,200 members, great men doing great works, and Numbers 1 and 2 are both Capt.
Seems you just can't find a good Richard when you so really need one.
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Snide....
<img src="smile.gif" border="0"> <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> Sheer Brilliance. I can't believe you have been following this. <Clap><clap>
Whatssis about Bob? Whos that?! <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
qaunty.
[quote] Just a bunch of ordinary guys unblessed with QFCaptdom, who just happen to disagree with your point of view, but don't need the homilies or care about the pontifically attempted put downs that are substituted for "argument or discussion" in your part of the world.
<hr></blockquote>
unblessed? doubt it. I think you have to pass a certain immoral factor before being allowed to be a QF captain. I was just trying to point out that the last 3 postings were in regards to spelling? . .Negative? yes, If someone says something different to me, and its logical, how is it negative? I dont consider different to be negative.. .Look at it this way, I am a member of AOPA, I dont care if you are a member of AOPA, I dont care if you dont join, I dont expect you to care that I am, but is it really necessary to put down someone who is enthusiastic about aviation, and happens to see AOPA as a postive tool in the industry? Surely you can see that the comments are negative towards aviation, and unfortunaly AOPA is the brick wall to throw mud at?
. .Snide, again.. sheeeer brilliance.
Dog <img src="cool.gif" border="0"> <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> <img src="tongue.gif" border="0"> <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">
<img src="smile.gif" border="0"> <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> Sheer Brilliance. I can't believe you have been following this. <Clap><clap>
Whatssis about Bob? Whos that?! <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
qaunty.
[quote] Just a bunch of ordinary guys unblessed with QFCaptdom, who just happen to disagree with your point of view, but don't need the homilies or care about the pontifically attempted put downs that are substituted for "argument or discussion" in your part of the world.
<hr></blockquote>
unblessed? doubt it. I think you have to pass a certain immoral factor before being allowed to be a QF captain. I was just trying to point out that the last 3 postings were in regards to spelling? . .Negative? yes, If someone says something different to me, and its logical, how is it negative? I dont consider different to be negative.. .Look at it this way, I am a member of AOPA, I dont care if you are a member of AOPA, I dont care if you dont join, I dont expect you to care that I am, but is it really necessary to put down someone who is enthusiastic about aviation, and happens to see AOPA as a postive tool in the industry? Surely you can see that the comments are negative towards aviation, and unfortunaly AOPA is the brick wall to throw mud at?
. .Snide, again.. sheeeer brilliance.
Dog <img src="cool.gif" border="0"> <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> <img src="tongue.gif" border="0"> <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">
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snide me old <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0"> now I do need some of that syrup.
Dog.. .Fair Cop
I'm just too tired for unrelenting enthusiasm. <img src="frown.gif" border="0"> <img src="cool.gif" border="0"> maybe I need that holiday I keep promising myself.
Dog.. .Fair Cop
I'm just too tired for unrelenting enthusiasm. <img src="frown.gif" border="0"> <img src="cool.gif" border="0"> maybe I need that holiday I keep promising myself.
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qaunty,
As Aussie was saying, maybe its time everyone took a big breath and had a big go at making a difference.. However I would suggest taking that holiday first
A pilot is a pilot. Maybe we should all be recognised first and foremost for being pilots. Let the job,hobby,fun segregation come second.
. .Live Long. Die Young. .Dog <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">
As Aussie was saying, maybe its time everyone took a big breath and had a big go at making a difference.. However I would suggest taking that holiday first
A pilot is a pilot. Maybe we should all be recognised first and foremost for being pilots. Let the job,hobby,fun segregation come second.
. .Live Long. Die Young. .Dog <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">
Hey Gaunty, why am I getting that feeling of deja vu (again) <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
Must be that confusion that Snide kindly diagnosed for me <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">
Or is it that I'm so far removed that I can't see the trees, much less the woods and so have to sometimes wonder at the tone of the debate.
[quote] maybe its time everyone took a big breath and had a big go at making a difference <hr></blockquote>. .Seems a good approach to me <img src="cool.gif" border="0"> <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
Must be that confusion that Snide kindly diagnosed for me <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">
Or is it that I'm so far removed that I can't see the trees, much less the woods and so have to sometimes wonder at the tone of the debate.
[quote] maybe its time everyone took a big breath and had a big go at making a difference <hr></blockquote>. .Seems a good approach to me <img src="cool.gif" border="0"> <img src="smile.gif" border="0">
Folks,. .It's not rocket science to dredge a few stats., or the civil aircraft register from the NZ CAA web site, and compare them with the Australian equivalent.
Try it over the last 10 years.
I hope we can all agree that the Australia land mass and population is somewhat larger than New Zealand.
Then take the time to have a look at some of the NZ regs., all available on the NZ CAA web site, and see how much more simple and straightforward they are!! Have a look for the bit about promoting NZ aviation, a total no no in the CASA culture, roundly opposed for inclusion in our CAA Act.
Of course, it is not that simple. The one huge difference I see across the Tasman is the level of cooperation between all the industry groups in NZ. I don't see anything like the seemingly eternal squabbling that goes on here.
Of course it's not all a bed of roses, witness the recent bunfight over medical standards, but look what happened.
Just about every group, and many individuals got together, pooled resources ( money and expertise) and took CAA on, politically and legally. This is a very simplified account of a serious situation, but the results were only achieved by shoulder to shoulder effort ( I know NZ rugby is a religion, is that it. We just play games??).
The results: A recalcitrant Director resigned, enabling him to become a consultant to CASA, medical standards were revised, and almost everybody was happy.
Are we all so collectively dumb that we can't learn from the NZ successes. I just hope that the answer to that question is not "Yes".
The truth is out there, but don't let that spoil your day.
Tootle pip !!
Try it over the last 10 years.
I hope we can all agree that the Australia land mass and population is somewhat larger than New Zealand.
Then take the time to have a look at some of the NZ regs., all available on the NZ CAA web site, and see how much more simple and straightforward they are!! Have a look for the bit about promoting NZ aviation, a total no no in the CASA culture, roundly opposed for inclusion in our CAA Act.
Of course, it is not that simple. The one huge difference I see across the Tasman is the level of cooperation between all the industry groups in NZ. I don't see anything like the seemingly eternal squabbling that goes on here.
Of course it's not all a bed of roses, witness the recent bunfight over medical standards, but look what happened.
Just about every group, and many individuals got together, pooled resources ( money and expertise) and took CAA on, politically and legally. This is a very simplified account of a serious situation, but the results were only achieved by shoulder to shoulder effort ( I know NZ rugby is a religion, is that it. We just play games??).
The results: A recalcitrant Director resigned, enabling him to become a consultant to CASA, medical standards were revised, and almost everybody was happy.
Are we all so collectively dumb that we can't learn from the NZ successes. I just hope that the answer to that question is not "Yes".
The truth is out there, but don't let that spoil your day.
Tootle pip !!
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: middleofthehighway
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Jeeze Snide, I think you killed the thread.
How could you point out how immature the arguement was.
<img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
Ho hum, it was fun.
Dog
How could you point out how immature the arguement was.
<img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0"> <img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
Ho hum, it was fun.
Dog
