Time entries for a logbook when there is no VDO
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Australia
Age: 44
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Time entries for a logbook when there is no VDO
So here's the deal: the hours in my logbook are based on VDO hours. However, I've just spent some time flying a plane with no VDO meter. I realise I should/could have just used a watch to work out my time, but I managed to not remember to do that every time I flew! So, what is the best/approved/correct way to record such flying time in one's logbook? The few ideas I've had are:
I'm really a bit unsure here, so any helpful advice would be great.
- Use tacho time
- Estimate VDO time based on a multiple of tacho
- Estimate VDO time based on the small proportion of flights where I remembered to time myself and multiply by a suitable factor to compensate for the other flights
I'm really a bit unsure here, so any helpful advice would be great.
You'll probably find for an average taxi, runup and taxi after landing there will be a .3 difference between flight and MR time.
(Multiplying a 3 hour flight by 1.2 would mean you spent over half an hour taxiing. Don't think so.)
(Multiplying a 3 hour flight by 1.2 would mean you spent over half an hour taxiing. Don't think so.)
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 429
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For charter the norm is to add .2 or .3 depending on where you're flying to and from. Get used to jotting the times down though. Remember tacho is dependant on what RPM you're using too! Sometimes it can be as far out as .2 per hour... if you're clever 
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Australia
Age: 44
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks for the responses guys. And yes, I know I need to make a habit of writing watch times down. Also, noting that the time I have available is tacho (not airswitch), I was wondering - at what RPM does the tacho time run at 1=1 hour? Obviously this would be different for different planes - but on what basis is it determined? (ie., would the LAME just set to to something like at the top of the green arc, 1 on the tacho = 1 hour of real time?)
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: YBBN
Posts: 1,022
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What I get told to do is add 0.2 for every startup/taxi etc. so If i went for a local flight for 1.0 tacho, i'd log 1.2
flight to ... Gold coast, stop for lunch, come back, say each way was 1.0 on the tacho, i'd log 1.2 each way.
Pyro
flight to ... Gold coast, stop for lunch, come back, say each way was 1.0 on the tacho, i'd log 1.2 each way.
Pyro
Folks,
The law (as in LAW) is quite clear about what to log;
Blocks time (aircraft first moves under its own power etc) for the pilot log book.
Air time, wheels off to wheels on for the MR.
The Act/Regulations do not recognize any rules of thumb, as one major operator at YSBK (and owners with aircraft on line with said operator) found out to his/their very great expense, in a CASA audit.
The law requires you to have a timepiece in the aircraft, use it.
Tootle pip!!
The law (as in LAW) is quite clear about what to log;
Blocks time (aircraft first moves under its own power etc) for the pilot log book.
Air time, wheels off to wheels on for the MR.
The Act/Regulations do not recognize any rules of thumb, as one major operator at YSBK (and owners with aircraft on line with said operator) found out to his/their very great expense, in a CASA audit.
The law requires you to have a timepiece in the aircraft, use it.
Tootle pip!!
I flew an aircraft some time back with no clocks at all. I kept a sheet with four time columns on it; Engine Start / Engine Stop - that went in the log book and Wheels Off / Wheels On - that went in the MR. My trusty Casio did the rest.
It's not an unreasonable question from Krazy, if all he / she has been used to is flying school aircraft with a Hobbs meter working off oil pressure. Beware though of some operators who have them hooked up to the master switch
It's not an unreasonable question from Krazy, if all he / she has been used to is flying school aircraft with a Hobbs meter working off oil pressure. Beware though of some operators who have them hooked up to the master switch
Or do you mean Aircraft?
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Sale, Australia
Age: 80
Posts: 3,832
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
at what RPM does the tacho time run at 1=1 hour?
Untitled
BTW, loved your other thread. All the best for the future.
Super Cecil, you need to get out more.
Aircraft were called planes long before your father was a glint in his fathers eye. Well in 1920 at least, which is the furtherest back I've bothered to research.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: your house
Posts: 66
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Logbook Time
Leadsled has it..
It has nothing to do with when you started the engines or when the engines stopped. It is Chocks Off (when the aircraft first begins to move under its own power), to Chocks On (when it comes to a stop). A lot of larger aircraft above 5,700 kg don't have any instruments indicating engine time, flight time etc, so they rely on the fitted timepiece.
Also remember VDO is just the name of the manufacturer so in some aircraft it will be called something different. Finally, if you apply 0.2 habitually, you could actually be falsifying hours (favourably or unfavourably) depending on what airport you are taxying at.
S
It has nothing to do with when you started the engines or when the engines stopped. It is Chocks Off (when the aircraft first begins to move under its own power), to Chocks On (when it comes to a stop). A lot of larger aircraft above 5,700 kg don't have any instruments indicating engine time, flight time etc, so they rely on the fitted timepiece.
Also remember VDO is just the name of the manufacturer so in some aircraft it will be called something different. Finally, if you apply 0.2 habitually, you could actually be falsifying hours (favourably or unfavourably) depending on what airport you are taxying at.
S
Folks,
The Law is the Law is the Law!!!
THE LAW on pilots logging flight hours is quite clear !!
Failure to comply with the LAW is a CRIMINAL OFFENSE ---- but perhaps that is too complex a concept for you "rule of thumb" merchants.
VDO is the name of an instrument manufacturer.
Hobbs is the name of an instrument manufacturer.
VDO/Hobbs/airswitch/master switch/oil pressure switch are all of a total irrelevance in the no small matter of the requirement to comply with the law.
Various aircraft operators practices for charging out aircraft, be they flying schools or whatever, are of a total irrelevance when it come to your obligation to comply with the LAW.
Failure to comply with the aviation law is a criminal offense, a serious matter for any pilot, in this post 9/11 world were ANY criminal action against a pilot (not even necessarily a conviction) can seriously limit your ability to travel outside Australia.
Quite apart from the fact that CASA inspectors love this subject, the "proof of the offense" is all there in writing ----- and given the reality of CASA Administrative fine system ---- log book offenses have become a "nice little earner".
So why don't you all do yourself a favour, comply with the law, and avoid all the easily avoidable but totally predictable consequences.
Tootle pip!!
The Law is the Law is the Law!!!
THE LAW on pilots logging flight hours is quite clear !!
Failure to comply with the LAW is a CRIMINAL OFFENSE ---- but perhaps that is too complex a concept for you "rule of thumb" merchants.
VDO is the name of an instrument manufacturer.
Hobbs is the name of an instrument manufacturer.
VDO/Hobbs/airswitch/master switch/oil pressure switch are all of a total irrelevance in the no small matter of the requirement to comply with the law.
Various aircraft operators practices for charging out aircraft, be they flying schools or whatever, are of a total irrelevance when it come to your obligation to comply with the LAW.
Failure to comply with the aviation law is a criminal offense, a serious matter for any pilot, in this post 9/11 world were ANY criminal action against a pilot (not even necessarily a conviction) can seriously limit your ability to travel outside Australia.
Quite apart from the fact that CASA inspectors love this subject, the "proof of the offense" is all there in writing ----- and given the reality of CASA Administrative fine system ---- log book offenses have become a "nice little earner".
So why don't you all do yourself a favour, comply with the law, and avoid all the easily avoidable but totally predictable consequences.
Tootle pip!!
Last edited by LeadSled; 3rd Mar 2010 at 10:56.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 168
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LeadSled - yep, spot on. I'm also a little worried at some of the responses from apparently working professional pilots in some recent threads. First guys logging pre-determined amounts of instrument time regardless of weather - and now pre-determined amounts of taxi time.
Sure LeadSled, the law is the law, however if you forgot to time a flight then you need to put something in. Logging less than your actual block time is illegal as is logging more, so the only thing to do is to put in a good faith guess. No one's going to take you to court for that as long as you're not making a habit of it.
The worst case I've heard of people using rule of thumb times was a company in NZ that was timing blocks off to blocks on and then subtracting a set amount for taxi and coming up with a dodgy flight time (resulted in some spectacularly fast Cook Straight crossings
.) That is much worse than adding a set time to a measured flight time to obtain your log time.
The worst case I've heard of people using rule of thumb times was a company in NZ that was timing blocks off to blocks on and then subtracting a set amount for taxi and coming up with a dodgy flight time (resulted in some spectacularly fast Cook Straight crossings
.) That is much worse than adding a set time to a measured flight time to obtain your log time.
No one's going to take you to court for that as long as you're not making a habit of it.
That's not the way CASA sees it, and it is not the way the law sees it ------ and "It won't matter if I don't make a habit of it" ---- will cut no ice in an audit or ramp check --- and this is something that is routinely checked, because CASA inspectors so often get a score ---- and enough administrative fines to pay for the visit.
The best I have seen was where every non-compliant entry, ie each pilot log book entry for months, was treated separately, as a separate offense, the total was a doozy. Glad I wasn't paying the bill and copping the points ----- in this case enough for a long license suspension.
Oh!!, and by the way, a prosecution under the Crimes Act as well as penalties under the Civil Aviation Act are not unknown, as some of you who have had any dealings with CASA Compliance and Enforcement will be able to testify ---- the DPP seem to have a habit of taking whatever CASA puts up at face value.
Tootle pip!!
PS: Re. transonic crossings of Cook Straight, that wouldn't be Sounds Air, would it. Maybe it was just very strong winds that day ---- after all, 50-60 kt. is not unknown between Wellington and Picton.
