Here we go again ! :ugh::ugh::ugh:

Anti-virus and any other software WILL NOT protect you from XP vulnerabilities. They all rely on the OS and its APIs. I do wish people would take 20 seconds to get that into their heads !

Its only a matter of time before we hear publicly .... if, not when ! As time goes on, there will be more and more exploits released of increasing seriousness.

I suspect there have already been zero-day exploits but the clinger-ons probably are to busy being artificially smug to notice.

If you show more empathy you will have more success at getting people to move away from xp.

You will note I am trying to get them away with a solution. But with a more sympathetic outlook to the situation.

OFSO wrote: It was the same at a Mercedes-Benz bodywork repair centre I visited today - WinXP running on their core system.

mixture and other techie geeks, the simple fact (as mad_jock has explained very well) is that the day-to-day user who simply does a little e-mailing, web-surfing and who cannot afford to throw away sound equipment has no idea about Micro$oft's decision. Those who perhaps do then take one look at the Windows 8.1, 8.1 update, 8.2 chaos and Windows 8.1 support nonsense and throw their hands up in confusion.

As has been said, how many other companies are prepared to abuse their dominant market position in such an obscene manner? M$ really seem hell-bent on handing their non-geek customers over to Apple....:uhoh:

BEagle mate that sort of user if the perfect one for the transition to Linux and to cut the tie forever to microtwat.

Your system speed will seem if its a new machine. Most software is free. Unless you have a xp software only application you need to use its definately an option.

As someone with technical knowledge, they are turning to you for advice.

If you sit there and empathise away, telling them not to worry, then you are sending them the wrong message. Its a lose-lose situation, they are not getting the correct advice and you are not helping your own cause when you have to then go tidy up the mess later.

As that article OSFO linked to said. Not spending money is not an option. Its simply a case of whether you spend it proactively now (i.e. by migrating to other OS) or you spend it later (i.e. clearing up the mess you've caused by being a clinger-on).

Stamping the feet rarely convinces anyone to change their mind.

I think most of us are aware that ONCE THE VIRUS HAS GOT IN, then AV and other software won't protect against it. However, it's got to get past the router and its firewall, and then the AV, and then be clicked on (or activated in another way) before it can do its thing. That's the same whether it's an XP virus, or a Win 7 one, or a non-specific one.

If I banged my head on the wall at these folks, their bottom lips would quiver and they wouldn't talk to me any more. Right now, I'm the chap who sorted out their recalcitrant PCs, installed (free) anti-virus, and set up their broadband for them. In most cases I also got Skype working so they can chat with the family. They trust me.

They aren't going to spend a week's pension money on Microsoft stuff (especially not after they've heard the horror stories from the treasurer, who bought a Win 8 laptop a few months ago). I'm also not going to spend the next few weeks of my life going around installing Linux and then being forever after responsible for everything that goes wrong with their (old) machines. That isn't my primary role in this community.

Your coming across as a OCD geek mixture.

As the rev keef who I might add has more human interaction training that all the admins in the UK I suspect. Your method off interaction to get people to change will do more harm than good.

No Keef.

I think you have to go back and read up on your fundamentals.

Anti-virus and all other software runs on top of the Operating System and relies on APIs and other aspects of the Operating System to function.

Compromised OS integrity equals compromised software functionality. No two ways about it... that's the hard facts. They WILL have a way to bypass Anti-Virus... not IF... but WHEN, and that "when" will come sooner than the cling-on brigade would like to hope ! :)

Just look at all the EXTRA security measures you get in operating systems later than XP if you want another good reason to upgrade :

http://blogs.technet.com/resized-ima...7.Untitled.png
(Image courtesy of this article... which should be one of many on the required reading list for the cling-on brigade)

The fact you have to resort to name-calling means you've realised you've lost the argument and are desperately trying to save face, when instead you're just digging yourself into a deeper hole.

I think Mr mixture's computer has been hacked.

Over two weeks ago, and not for the first time, he said

It's obvious that someone is using his id and we should not blindly assume that all these subsequent posts have come from him.

:cool:

I blame OSFO (I think it was) for mentioning my name and citing an article that supported my point of view.

Thus I felt it merited a reply.

I then allowed myself to fall pray to the madness of jock and his sidekick from Dibley ....

But, I know I've said it before, but this time I mean it. I've well and truly had it with the cling-on brigade and am now leaving you lot to stew in your own juices.

Good riddance.

Mixtures back in the game and running on high octane. We are lovin' it, Mixture's lovin' it.

Come on it is game on again!


Regards
Exeng

If the OAPs have older machines then Linux would probably run quite well on them. I upgraded my father to Linux from Window 2000 (!) a few years back. He wanted to stick with Windows until I told him what a retail copy would set him back. I can fix most of his problems remotely, even to the point of getting his scanner working, when I told him to leave something on it so I could have something visible to scan and check the resulting file.

If it's a bit of email, web surfing and occasional letter writing, Linux is cheaper and easier, especially on older hardware as used for XP. It's bleeding-edge new hardware without drivers that lets it down, and that's the manufacturers' fault for not making them available, despite providing several flavours of Windows driver. Strangely enough, Windows sometimes has the opposite problem, new OS doesn't have drivers for older hardware because the manufacturer didn't bother to write one.

Far from digging a hole I would think that my message is having more of an effect than yours.

And if you look I am not saying that people shouldn't change. I am just stating the fact and reasons why they won't even if the upgrade was absolutely free.

Of the computational engines in my household, all have an anti-virus scan at least once a day (except the Linux netbook which is currently asleep).

Some machines have double scans morning and night from two different antivirus.

The only machine which has thrown up a malware detected notification since support for XP was withdrawn is a WIN7 laptop.

I do that every morning, and preach on them most Sundays.

However, to get into my computer (and those of the folks in question), the "nasty" has to get through the firewall in the router. That comes before any APIs in the computer. Or do firewalls not work if the connected computer is using XP?

However, the argument is now in a spin. The folk in question are using XP and aren't going to change. I'm not going to spend weeks swapping them to Linux (not even Linux Mint), and they aren't going to spend a large chunk of pension on Microsoft products. Their firewalls and AV are all they have between them and eternal perdition. So far so good...

I get several per day from Avast, invariably referring to one of those pesky Russian spam e-mails with virus attached. They are obviously trying to convert me...

It wouldn't surprise me if M$ executives leak out future WinXP exploits to drive up profits - after all that's what their busine$$ is all about.

I find that security features table above to be very interesting. Seems to be a lot of obfuscation of the execution image in the heap, or in layman's terms, a sign of a bad original design.

It sure is very hard to change something when you don't have the funds. I recall years ago people used to change their laptops readily providing a trickle down effect that would eventually filter down to the technologically challenged demographic. It all seems to have slowed down since the GFC.

If only some smart cookie would quickly "invent" LinuXP :8

I DO NOT want Mixture on here coming across as all sympathetic and empathetic and cuddly.

I want the usual strident opinionated simple messages. Even the wrong ones about we all know who.

We'd miss him/her if they went away.

cattletruck, there's no need for MS to do anything of the sort. All they have to do is release patches for their supported OSes and the blackhats will take care of the rest. A good percentage of the flaws will also affect WinXP so they reverse engineer the patches (as they've always done) and bingo! Flaw after flaw after flaw that will never be patched on XP.

I blame OSFO (I think it was) for mentioning my name and citing an article that supported my point of view.

My fervent and grovelling apologies to all here for doing this. It won't happen again.....