WinXP: only 6 months left
 

With WinXP officially being taken out behind the shed & shot in April what are current users intending to do?

Alright, the Win8 Metro interface is a dog without a touchscreen, but throw on something like Classic Shell and you have a perfectly usable Windows system.

FWIW here in Oz Win8 upgrade is still available for $68 from Officeworks.

No, I'm not flogging Win8 (I use Linux) but you need to plan to use something other than XP come April as continuing to use it is not a sensible option. Note that WIn7 only has 15 months of mainstream support left.

My back - up pc is on XP. The change is a shame. I'll have to buy a new pc.

Consumerism, huh!!

True, but there's a further 5 years extended support (the same level of support that is ending for XP next year) until 2020, so I for one have no plans to migrate all 5 of my home PCs from Win 7 anytime soon. I just hope that SP2 is released before 2015.

Microsoft Support Lifecycle

Let's have this discussion again in 6 years! Or, for Vista users, in 3 years time. :)

SD

Why fix something when it works perfectly. Typical Microsoft trying to catch up with Apple's OS systems. They never will!

Windows 98 still in regular use with no problems, so why worry about XP?

crewmeal

Microsoft would go bankrupt if they didn't strongly nudge the customer to buy newer, newer.

A dilemma of theirs is Office software. People buy a copy and use it for a long time ... during which MS get no additional money. This could explain Office365 ... which will produce a continual flow of income from its users.

It sounds as though Google may be working on ChromeOS to be pushed as a replacement for WinXP. We shall see. Interesting times.

We have three computers, two desktops and one netbook... the netbook and the older desktop are both on XP the newer desktop is on Vista... I for one have no intentions whatsoever of further lining the pockets of M/Soft by 'upgrading' to anything else.
Similarly, we use M/Soft Office Home and Student Edition 2003 on all three machines and are quite happy with its capabilities. If documents in the .doc format have been successfully used for so many years why do we suddenly need .docx? Its just change for change sake...
Firefox is my browser of choice, but it used to be so much better when at v3.16 after which it just got heavier and heavier with incompatibilities with other programs introduced at every upgrade...
AVG Antivirus... again, used to be good, but like FF got heavier and heavier slowing down everything. We gave it up as a bad job three years ago and went over to Avast.
Like they say... IF IT AIN'T BROKE, DON'T FIX IT!

but to whom are you talking :)

MS or the end users ?

Should the end user just keep on using it until it finally stops running having been taken over by a virus +

Heck if all it is being used for is a backup computer should anybody care?

Is it going to act like typhoid mary and spew its germs to all who come in contact?

where this sort of microsoft upgrade really hurts is in the industrial controls environment. most of these systems are based on windows.

as the window of hardware availability has moved over the years the computers are getting less and less usable.

you need to set up a system with reliable connections. cant do that any more.
usb connections are great until the system reconfigures port names after a plug vibrates out.

apple will not allow their machines to be used in controls environments.

XP service pack 2 with all the drivers and hardware available was far in away the best interface and computer hardware combination to use.

one of the reasons I dont go back to control systems engineering is the sheer impossibility of getting windows current versions to configure for usable work.

linux mint may prove to be the new boy on the block as far as operating systems go.

The real question is, what will Microsoft do when they try to 'stop support' but there are still tens or hundreds of millions of XP machines in use by businesses around the world?

It's not as though they're all going to rush out and replace them with Windows 8 and its tablet interface.

Computing moves on and it becomes harder and harder to bolt improvements on to a clunky old chassis without cutting and welding. Why would any company do that if you aren't paying for it?

MG32, seriously, why would MS care? Those companies are probably too wedded to other MS products to change to anything different. If they really want to keep using XP they can start writing large cheques for the privilege of continued support or take their chances......

It's not like they haven't had however many years warning to plan a transition.

Because the global infrastructure is totally reliant on computers these days, and it only takes one exploitable, unpatched and unpatchable XP bug to give the world a really bad day?

'Oh, it's not our fault, we warned you,' doesn't go down too well after something like that.

I believe Microsoft already extended support once because hardly anyone wanted to move away from XP. I won't be at all surprised if they have to extend it again, at least for major security fixes.

And smaller companies love spending money to replace computers that still do everything they need.

I think you'll be sorely disappointed with MS extending support any further. How many years are you expecting MS to continue supporting people who refuse to change? People have to take some responsibility for their own behaviour.

A computer is not a toaster, despite what the marketoids have managed to convince people of! It's a highly complex device that needs maintaining. If a small company can't budget a few dollars a week per PC to cover issues known years ahead of time then more fool them. How the hell do they cope with anything else with a fixed and known lifespan?

Last I heard, about 30% of Internet traffic came from XP machines. It was reported that Microsoft hoped to get that down to 15% by the drop-dead date. That, of course, doesn't consider embedded systems.

One needs to consider Microsoft's imperatives as a business. They can't go on forever supporting operating systems or Office software which brings them no continuing income. Subscription software ("Office365") is an answer to their need for a continual flow of income.

There is perhaps a reason why MS has moved to the DOCX and XLSX formats. They are nearer the ISO standard which is used by OpenOffice / LibreOffice as their default. OO and LO read DOCX and XLSX documents without complaint. They can write DOC & XLS. I understand that recent versions of MS Office read OO and LO formats.

My main XP machine is so well set up with all the tools I require that it would be a costly exercise just to upgrade it for the sake of Microsoft.

If anything is going to kill it it will be because it's a 32 bit machine.

When I finally decide to make the move to new hardware my plan is to convert my physical machine into virtual form - probably VMWare. This way I get to keep my current setup in operational form.

I haven't investigated an easy way of converting an existing physical machine into virtual form, but I know I can shoe-horn it into there if required.

The problem is that many of these supposed improvements are not used nor wanted by the majority of institutional users. They do want a bug-free, unhijackable machine, but they don't need an enhanced "user experience" when most of the time the computer is being used for relatively simple tasks like text entry and spread-sheet construction.

I am quite proud that my eldest, recently embarked on a computer science degree, has taken after his old man and delights in persuading his programmable calculator to accomplish with 125kB of RAM what his classmates are struggling to do with 4GB.

Wish there were more around like your son!

I am frequently horrified by some piece of bloatware that takes up huge amounts of RAM to do what something 10% of its size used to do faster.

I suppose that I am living in an alternate universe, but I'm surprised to hear that anyone has based serious industrial control software on Windows.

I thought that Linux or various real-time operating systems were what was used on mission-critical industrial control systems.

CelticRambler, some of those improvements include a better security model. If all they're using it for is data entry and such then the changes to the GUI are of little consequence, so how can they cause any hassle?

It's because they made the mistake of well and truly welding themselves to a given set of tools and didn't evolve that they're crying.

seacue, most of the high end control interfaces are based on windows.

at one stage the advances of hardware and windows meant the end of serial ports. the usb edgeport fixed that and microsoft bought out an industrial version that was basically an XP interface with all the previous drivers.

I have no problems at all with the security being fixed up but leave the man machine interface at XP.

computers nowadays are far less useful than they were 10 years ago.

I am dreading the day that I am compelled to upgrade from XP. I invested in XP in the early norties because it offered photographic handling facilities that Win 98 did not. Since that time I have managed to get XP to do everything I want including running some programmes I have been using since the days of wn 3.1 and some DOS based games. Recently I needed to acquire a new laptop and was therefore obliged to start learning win 7. I am still struggling to get it to work in the way XP does for me - silly things like my ancient version of Outlook will not store passwords - a problem I have as I have to re-enter them every day. I suppose that I am expected to invest a fortune in acquiring up to date versions of much of my software, but as people keep saying, "if is ain't broke, don't fix it". Hopefully a solution, for all the reasons stated above will emerge. I wouldn't be averse to buying a new license from Microsoft to keep my version of XP up to date. If they made it cheap enough, I am sure many others would as well so Microsoft's income could be maintained.

P.P.

When - and if - I have a major problem with XP, Linux Mint will be put on my PC and everything swapped over.

But I'm hoping that the Cleverbridge guys from Brabanter Strasse, Köln, will stay on guard after MS support ends.

MS is really not interested in extending support for XP any further:

"An IT manager, who wished to remain anonymous because he was not authorized to speak on the matter, told Computerworld that Microsoft had quoted his company $1 million for the first year of custom support to cover 5,000 Windows XP machines, $2 million for the second year, and $5 million for the third."

Microsoft gooses Windows XP's custom support prices as deadline nears - Computerworld

Maybe if you put aside a couple of dollars/pounds/euro a week you'd have enough money to buy new versions every so often. It's not like it's an unexpected event.

For better or worse software evolves and unless you can maintain it yourself (or pay for the privilege) you have little choice but to go along for the ride. Changing in a number of gradual steps is a hell of a lot easier than one huge leap every ten years.

Is the XP Mode still available for Windows 7 Pro?

I know that no version of Win 8 has an XP mode.

Manufacturers are still selling PCs with Windows 7 since major commercial customers are not ready to replace a fraction of their PCs with Win 8. There are significant retraining and support costs for having both 7 and 8 in house..

The next time you pop into your local (UK) post office and watch the nice lady behind the counter using her touch screen computer you're watching someone using Windows NT4 SP6 on a Pentium 4 running at 200MHz with 256MB of memory. When you pay for your coffee in Starbucks the IBM till is running NT4 too.

What he said, except I'd put it in much stronger terms.

People who use XP after it goes EOL are fools.

I don't care if you're running anti-virus or whatever, it won't help you one iota if the underlying OS is not patched up. Anti-virus and other third party security software all use underlying OS APIs.... if those APIs are insecure, then so is your security software.

As for the people here implying Microsoft don't care, those people have evidently never been involved in software development. You can't realistically continue to support all historical editions of software, you have to draw a line somewhere.

Get yourselves upgraded to a newer version of Windows or migrate to Linux or Mac.

Remaining on XP is not an option. There is ZERO justification for any private individual to remain on XP, and there is ZERO justification for any business other than large corporates with legacy systems (and a healthy sized IT department) to remain on XP.

The time has come, Microsoft gave you more than enough notice. Deal with it.

This board has generally been a gold mine of valuable and helpful information, but posts such as the one above can easily destroy that illusion.

People are entitled to make their own decisions about what operating system they use and for how long. Some may disagree with those reasons, but to vindictively label such people as 'fools' destroys confidence in the advice offered in this board, and weakens and perhaps even destroys for some what has been a valuable and trusted arena for genuine help and fraternal advice. Frankly some of the arguments offered for dumping XP - and the scenarios promised - are strongly reminiscent of what we heard toward the end of last century about something called the Y2K bug.

Changing to a new operating system is not something to be undertaken lightly. Scores of programs need to be re-installed – some of them will not operate in anything after XP. New ones may have to be purchased and learned afresh. Realistically serviceable and functional machines may have to be dumped and new ones purchased. It’s a major dislocation of functionality and familiarity. And it’s expensive in terms of time, money and frustration. Multiply this by the number of computers some of us have, and the disincentives are enormous.

The most persuasive reason for changing to a new operating system is that it will offer improvements in performance, ease of use and productivity. If that hasn't been adequately demonstrated in post XP versions of Windows then it isn't the fault of the users.

I submit that millions of users are probably going to stay with Windows XP for good and varied reasons. Whilst it may be unwise from a professional IT point of view, their reasons are valid for them, and that needs to be accepted.

In the meantime treating people with respect, politeness and goodwill may just ensure that this board remains the valuable and competent source of help and friendly advice which users had come to expect.

Agreed, but you learn to recognise some posters and make appropriate allowances.

the other option of course is that microsoft will become bankrupt before realising the error of their ways.

anyway that is microsoft's problem not mine since I have a non microsoft solution that works pretty well the way I want.

posts such as the one above can easily destroy that illusion.

Mixture's technical advice is well thought-out and first rate. Sadly his interpersonal skills leave a lot to be desired and tend to make one disregard everything he writes.

MS might go bankrupt but it won't be due to letting old OSes die. MS Office isn't going anywhere soon and the corporate world will move onto Win7. How does the average home user acquire Windows? They buy a PC. Attrition will take care of that.

In his own gentle manner Mixture is correct. Seriously, the purveyors of malware must be rubbing their hands together waiting for April because they know oodles of users will stick with XP. They'll have any number of zero day exploits waiting to be unleashed and every XP system will be vulnerable in perpetuity.

If you value the data on your computer and your bank balance then please stop using XP online after April. Would you leave your valuables in a car that was known to be easy to break into? No? Why would you do it with a computer? Sure, you might get away with with it or you might not,,,,,

Yes, I know it won't necessarily be easy to make the move but there are ways and means to ease the migration. Investigate using XP in a virtual machine for instance. Just don't take the bloody thing online.

You've got six months so get cracking!

Exactly ! :D

If I were a malware writer, sure I'd continue releasing a few scraps here and there. But I'd be holding off my best work until April, both because I'd know I'd be able to charge a premium rate on the black market, and also because there would be bugger all Microsoft would ever do about it.

Seriously, do not underestimate the malware writers.

I'm firmly on the side of the upgraders.

It isn't just personal data at risk, it's the internet as a whole that can be hugely impacted by large numbers of unpatched PCs with out-of-date OSes.

Fine if your Win 9x / NT4 / 2000 / XP PC is never, ever connected to the internet.

Otherwise it is putting others at risk as well.

SD

Mixture:
 

I'm an XP user on old "2007" kit: + Linux (IP tables Locked as a brick House.)

I do have commercial experience of supporting small 18-24 user groups , not big iron kit. SCO and Win R2003- perhaps small cake in your experience.

Surely, using Win 2003/2008 R server Admin you can limit and modify the the usage policies associated with your win XP users: hard ! Game

On the home front; for people like me - save your EM outbound data ( say Minitab/Mathcad attachments to USB) and only use your PC in Lnux mode.for internet - I have done the usual port i/o allocations - T'bird for the afflicted BT users - like me.

It's not as Mad Hat (No joke) as you imagine:

There's a huge intellectual input, in terms of customisation associated with long standing units associated with many user individuals and groups.

Its not the game promoted by "PC Mags/Advice helpers sponsored by MS advertising" etc.

Its a stinker of a problem for many ! - Am I going to migrate my Mathcad 14 ! - to 8.1 Sod knows.

Look at the granularity of the problem. ?

It's a very complex call - MS have really given the pony the stick of ginger up the jet pipe here. - I can switch off N/W connections physically.

CAT III

The problem is that most users don't have the knowledge or interest to do anything other than use a computer as an appliance. They need to be presented with a ready-made and safe solution. Continuing to use XP online is, very definitely, not a safe or sensible option for those users. Bespoke security arrangements won't work for them.

The safe and sensible options are:

1. Buy a new system for accessing anything on-line, then pull the network cable on XP, or if you must leave it on a local network disable Internet access.

2. Dual boot a new OS with XP on the original machine. A pain in the backside having to reboot the system to switch between OSes. Again disable Internet access on XP.

3. Run XP in a virtual machine with Internet access disabled. Provided you have sufficient RAM and enough CPU grunt (not really a problem with a modern machine) this is a nice solution. There are ways and means to virtualise your current system (licensing permitting of course). Accessing legacy hardware could be a problem though.

As I said.... built-in or third-party security... running on top of XP is as good as having no security whatsoever. It'll all be exploitable via bugs in the APIs.

As le Pingouin said. If you insist on using XP, then I insist on you only using it with the internet unplugged ... permanently. Anything else is not an option.

From a personal usage POV, the best way to upgrade your XP computer filled with legacy apps that are proven to already work and will cost you a small fortune to update while giving you endless migraines in the process is.....

don't.

Disconnect the network cable and buy yourself the latest and most cheapest laptop (which are spec'd pretty good) with Win 8.1 pre-installed and use that exclusively for all your internet activity. $300 is all it takes and you get a shiny new play thing.

Thanks Mixture
 

When Push becomes shuv - In the short term I'm going to save my work to USB - re boot and re boot into Linux (Network enabled) and send the requisite attachments by EM that way. Of course this only applies in some cases.

What a pa-lava - But needs as must.

But cattletruck has the solution.

It's the ordinary users and I don't mean that in a derogatory way, who really are going to be stuffed by the forced change.

Company computers in many cases, are protected behind all manner of sophisticated technologies and its been estimated that by the cut off, something like 26% of PC's on the internet will still be XP operating system based.

I know the statistic is open to question and I bet that does not include those used in industrial applications.

From Mixture.

But.....

"built-in or third-party security... running on top of XP is as good as having no security whatsoever. It'll all be exploitable via bugs in the APIs."

What a mess

Microsoft are a commercial operation and XP is obsolete for a number of reasons but Microsoft could have made the transition easier between XP and WIn 7.

It's rare that I now visit this forum, and even rarer that I post any more.

However, this subject sees me logging in to post this:

The bottom line, for anyone who is determined to use Windows XP post-April 2014 is that you must NEVER EVER connect it to the internet following that date unless you've paid the $Xm to Microsoft for ongoing corporate support (nobody here i'd wager).

IT guys are not renowned for their interpersonal skills, but the 2 individuals on this thread who's technical opinions I can respect are Mixture and Saab, and when you get both of them and me in consensus on this issue the people who don't consider themselves IT experts should take that for the message that it is.

Mike.

What a fuss! For Heavens sake!

Virtualize your old XP machine and run it in a VM on a modern OS (Win or *nix)

Just don't give the VM access to the Net - or let it and just revert to a known clean snapshot everytime you run it.

You could use a non-routable protocol like NetBIOS/NetBEUI or DLC to communicate.

Paragon's Go Virtual works nicely - Virtualize your computer (make a virtual copy of it) with Paragon Go Virtual | Reviews, news, tips, and tricks | dotTech

So does VMWare - Virtualize your old Win XP machine on Windows 7 | DigiBlog

Anyone would think the skies were falling!

Mac

Edited to add:

I don't of course mean that folks should still be running XP as their main OS.

They shouldn't.

BUT if you're keeping it around to run some very specific app then there might be some rationale for keeping an old copy around and there are ways of doing this in reasonable safety.