Putting it together (was:Choosing a case!).
 

I have project "Deep Thought" in progress. The building of my first home made machine - dual core chip, 8gB RAM, 2 x 512mB video cards, 2 x 500gB HDDs (RAID). 64 bit Vista Ultimate.

I'm nearly there with the shopping list which, fur various reasosn, is all from www.newegg.com but still need case, power supply and DVD drive(s) - and maybe some extra cooling fans.

Cases, to my uneducated brain are just steel boxes - so why are some $20 and some $200?

I thought I'd found a reasonable combo with http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811129024 as for US$110 it includes a 500W power supply (which would retail for $US55 on it's own) and free shipping (no tax payable).

But then I find another 500W supply http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817148027 for just $40 (dropping to $25 with rebates).

I also saw a PSU with "SLI" technology for only $40 after rebates at http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16817159054
and, whilst I don't understand what "SLI" is - it matches the promotion for the video cards and the motherboard.

Front sockets (USB/Firewire/Audio) I may have built in, I may purchase a "media centre" panel to fit in one of the large drive bays.

Where do you begin?

For SLI information, google is your friend:

http://www.pcmech.com/article/sli-technology/

Cases, cases!

Write down your requirements, particularly around quiet operation, cooling fan requirements, number of internal / external drive bays, toolfree operation and appearance / lighting (this latter leaves me totally cold). Probably more, but that's a start.

Select case, based on the above, assuming that EMR shielding is equal for all (it isn't, but how are you going to tell).

If buying from a website, there are often reader reviews that give clues.

Don't expect the cheapest case to be well finished (but then many expensive ones aren't either).

Read the small print - some cases come with a lot more screws, cables, adaptors than others.

SD

I currently use an Antec P182. It's a very nice case, can't fault it at all. Google for it and you should get plent of reviews. It is probably the most popular case around at the moment.

Not that you can necessarily tell from the price but some cases are built to be easy to open up (but can be more expensive) whilst others are quite the reverse. The former are great for those who like to fiddle with their innards whereas if you're the sort of person who is likely to put it together and not change anything for the next five years then the latter will suit.

Vista is limited to 4GB of RAM. You can put more in if you want but it won't get used.

Agree with NeoDude, Antec cases are good for the price and are nice and easy for access (you still want to get into it easily to build the PC, after all. You don't want to be pulling out the PSU just so you can fit the motherboard like some cases force you to do.)

Coolermaster is another brand I like, but these ar just my personal choices.


Oh, one other thing, I would go for a PSU larger than 500w if possible, won't do any harm and since the psu will be stressed less it should last a heck of a lot longer

Kanos,


Keygrip's supports 128GB.

"64 bit Vista Ultimate......supports 128GB"

Required in order to run Super Mario at DOS 3.21 speeds

:}

I thought cases were just tin boxes till I bought my last PC.

It's got a 700 watt power supply, and there's one screw to undo to take off the top or the sides. That one screw is designed for fingers, not screwdrivers. The slight snag is that it makes opening up the case TOO easy.

It has 4 full-size drivebays, 4 HDD bays, 2xUSB and 1x Firewire on the front, plus an LCD panel, headphone socket, switch for the flashing lights (always switched off), floppy drive and PCMCIA slots.

In other words, totally over the top. But you may be sure my next PC will have a similar case. After years of simple boxes with 300 watt power supplies that feel like ovens after they've been on for a couple of hours, this cool device (with its two large fans) is the bees knees.

Strangely, there's no maker's name on it.

Vista will run fine with 8Gb of RAM.
2x512 Graphics cards will suck juice from the 12 volt rail like it is going out of fashion, so make sure that whatever power supply you buy will be Sli ready. If you want to future proof look fo a 1000W model.

You can pay a hell of a lot for a case as this will help with cooling, some of the more expensive cases are machined from a single bloc of alloy.

Sad but very true. :ugh:

Order placed. Thanx folks.

Ended up with 1000w PSU to be installed inside a very lenghty named "COOLER MASTER Stacker 830 Evolution RC-830-KKR3-GP Black Aluminum ATX Full Tower Computer Case"

Fingers crossed.

:8 It's not too late to ditch the fascist gatesware and go to Linux.

Don't be sucked in by the "ease of backup" claims of Ultimate: they are b/s.

If you are looking to encrypt: lots of luck - more gateswareb/s. Go to the knowledge base forums and look around.

Are you used to being able to install/move/uninstall/delete files on your own computer? Lots of luck with Ultimate, mate.

Run Linux, run Apple,Run Away from Vista.

Declaration: the only reason I am running a single-boot XP system is because I can't afford to be shagged by gatesware on a dual boot linux machine.

edited for fat fingered spelling

The Linux training starts shortly after the installation of this machine (tagged "Deep Thought").

An old laptop, running what has turned out to be an illegal copy of WinowsXP (an upgrade from original legitimate 98SE) will be converted to Linux as a test bed.

It's first job is to become a telephone exchange for the house (and route calls into/out of the internet, rather than copper pair rented from the phone company).

I'd also like it to run "SAM4 Broadcaster" from Spacial Audio - but not found out if SAM will run under Linux yet.

It's a fairly low powered machine, but will try to run a Second Life character on it, too.

Any other suggestions as to what to do with a hi-speed connection and a Linux machine?

Do consider what you will do for telephone calls if any part of the internet connection / exchange fails.

SD

Cell!

I have actually considered that, as during the hurricanes of 2005, the only service to stay connected to our home was landline telephone.

Cable TV went, electricity went, cellphones went, phone stayed connected. Radio was OK, lol.

Two big boxes of bits arriving by UPS today.

*Never* built one from zero before.

Apart from "RTFM" - any hints or tips?

Piece of pee to do it.

First, in your case, READ THE INSTRUCTION MANUALS!! Taking the power supply out can give you more room to work but that depends on the case.

Insert the CPU and fit it's cooler before you fit the motherboard into the case as it can save scraped knuckles and gives you a nice lump to hold onto. Fit RAM before fitting mobo into case too as space could be limited. Make sure "jumpers" are set properly (if necessary, some mobos don't have that any more) before you fit the motherboard in the case. Fit motherboard in case next. Connect up things like "speaker"/hdd light/power/reset/usb panel/etc wires next. Fit all components after you fit the motherboard into the case, they'll only fit one way so if you have to force things you are doing it wrong so don't force anything. Once all components are fitted, add all cables. That's it basically. Oh, if possible, make sure it's easy to add anything else in the future (put your dvd drive in the bottom drive bay so if you add another it's easier to fit that in above the existing one, as an example). Many cables, etc, are now colour coded so it's even easier than in the past.

Ultimately, take your time. Patience is a virtue and since you'll spend so long installing software an extra few minutes doing the build will not make a difference to things.

Oh, make sure at least one part of your body is touching the case when you add things as static can cause havoc.

Anti-static
 

If you are adding CPU, cooler and RAM to the motherboard before installing the mobo in the case, make sure that the mobo is well and uniformly supported to ensure you don't flex it.

Take particular care that the mobo mounting studs are the correct length for the correct location in the case. The mobo is flat, but the "bottom" of the case need not necessarily be!

Sometimes it is easier to install some of the audio / CD cables before all of the PCI cards, and similarly it may be easier to plug the mobo ends of IDE and SATA cables in before installing the drives.

Be prepared to remove drives, cables and cards to change the installation order (don't screw them down until it all fits together) to get everything to fit!

It's well worth getting some cable ties and / or or cable tubing to tidy up the cabling inside, as this can aid airflow, reduce irritating noises and make working on the system easier in the future.

SD

To follow on to SD's post (I should have been clearer), I usually put the mobo on it's antistatic bag, then on the foam pad that will be in the box and all that in the actual box whilst adding things before installing it in the case. Of course, you will be doing all this on a table of some kind so that means you have a nice, flat, stable platform to work on.

TBH, E.Z., I have never used antistatic gloves/straps/etc and I've never had an issue. Just make sure you hold any components at the edges, with as little contact as possible (think of holding a CD, you hold it so your fingers are on the very edges so you don't touch stick a fingerprint on the bit the disc is read from. Treat components in the same way.), don't touch any parts on the component and keep fingers clear of the connections. In an ideal world the power supply will be in the case as you work so you can connect the power cable, plug it into the wall (DO NOT SWITCH POWER ON AT WALL!!) and then the whole case is earthed so as long as a part of your hand/arm (big toe if your a contortionist) is then touching the case there shouldn't be any chance of any sort of issue as you and the PC will be at the same "potential". And there's always plenty exposed metalwork in a PC case to do that with.

This is all great advice, especially from HB - all stuff I've learnt the hard way! The best nugget in there is TAKE YOUR TIME :) and never, ever, force anything!

Just rewinding to the cases debate, I've had a few & found Antec to be the est thought out in termsof logical cable routing, cooling strategy & ease of access of any. MSI are about the worst & all small form factors suck.

Whenever I am building/renovating a PC I find the most essential piece of equipment to be an elastoplast as I always manage to cut my finger(s) on the metal case.

Deep Thought failed.
 

Good try! Close, but no cigar - as they say.

Finally managed to get both HDD in the case, both video cards in and connected in SLI, chip and ram mounted, DVD drive clamped and USB/media card plugged.

Pressed "Go". Not a lot.

All the fans that are supposed to whirr, whirred. All the LED's that are supposed to light, lit.

Nuth'n came out of the video cable(s) to the digital monitor(s).

:{:{:{:{

Now, ladies and gentlemen, we move forwards into a new dawn, a new era. (Troubleshooting).

Cabling, by the way, was a dream. 1000w psu had oodles of cables cascading from it - but found only 4pin CPU and millipede pin ATXpower were needed to the mobo, and then one SATA power cable gave volts to the 2 x HDD and the DVD.

3 x USB cables, 1 x 1394 cable, one AC97 (?) audio and one conglomorate of led/pwr/reset wires all fell into place in a ginormous case full of cooling fans. 3 x SATA data leads simply clicked into place. Skts 1 & 2 being the HDD's, Skt 3 being the DVD.

Didn't need PCI Express power leads, didn't need 8 pin CPU power lead, didn't need the 4 pin 12v lead (all tie-wrapped and stowed away.

Didn't really matter what I needed, as it didn't work, lol. Any of you guys live near Orlando?

Keygrip

You have a bundle of wires/connections that come from the front of the case. Are they connected in the right places and are you sure none have come off as you hook everything up? (Power button connected to reset line, for example)

Also, and this is something that can catch a heck of a lot of people out, there could be a "jumper" which has to be moved (cmos reset) as some boards have this set to "reset" to preserve the battery whilst the board is kept on the shelf. That one little jumper will stop the machine powering up if it's in the "wrong way"


What motherboard is it, btw.

I find it strange that you didn't need to use the PCI-E power cables for your graphics cards. Are you sure they don't require seperate power supplies?

HB - it's an ASUS M2N-Sli Deluxe http://usa.asus.com/products.aspx?l1...60&modelmenu=1

I did read a paragraph (2.6 p2-20) about "a" jumper - singular - that suggests you "can" (not "must") move the jumper from pins 1 and 2, place it on pins 2 and 3 for 5 to 10 seconds, then replace on pins 1 and 2.

This, apparently, clears the "Real Time Clock RAM in CMOS". It comes with two warnings, don't do this unless clearing the clock as removal will cause system boot failure (ah, interesting!!) and if you do do it, you must reset the bios afterwards.

This al suggests that it's an option for later use, after having run the machine initially -especially as the first line is "Turn off the computer with the power switch".

The jumper is in it's default pin 1 and 2 position.

All the scrawny little wires from the front, HDD LED, PWRLED, RESET and PWR are connected through a "Quick Connect" adaptor that makes them into a single plug for direct connection to their new home in the corner of the motherboard. It's one ribbon cable that splits into four individual connections. The ribbon is run alongside the two front panel USB cables, the front panel 1394 cable and the front panel audio cable - all connected to their individual places.

The audio has three connection options, HD Audio, AC97 and "Azalia" - mother board is default enabled to AC97 (whatever that is), so that was the choice.

Neo, I'm convinced that the cards don't use the external power - though equally surprised. Each card has a fan on it, so I'm assuming a reasonable current draw. Having seen the plethora of eight ad six pin connectors on the PCI EXpress power cords from the PSU (there are 4 cords, each with a minimum of two connectors (an 8 pin and a 6 pin)), I was convinced that they would be put to use, but I promise you, there is no connector available on either the cards, or the board, to plug anything into.

The only connectors on the cards are the PCI slot itself and a small bridge connector on the top, to connect the two cards to each other (and they are). Nowhere on cards or board for the power connectors.

Couple of things I have thought of - as this machine is (hopefully) going to run Vista Ultimate, I didn't see much point in installing a floppy disk drive, and I'm wondering if the motherboard is looking for one.

I also wonder about having both graphics cards in and connected to gether with the SLI bridge connector. Is it too early for that? Will they confuse the system?

A UK buddy suggested that an analogue video signal would be available by default and that the board might require digital to be enabled afterwards. Snag is both video cards are dual DVI output, so I have 4 DVI sockets - nothing analogue (and no mention of anything similar in the manual).

The next silly question is which graphics cards are they.

Exactly what lit? Numlock on the keyboard, quick flash from 3 LEDs on the keyboard?? No BIOS beeps when it started?

The Nvidia 8800 & 9600 series require extra power (6 pin skts) the 8400 & 8600 don't

ATI 38xx series do (6 pin and for the 3870 6 & 8pin) the 3400 & 3600 don't.

No experience of such things as SLI bits myself but as a general principle given your circumstances I would keep things as simple as possible to start with. Put together the absolute basic configuration - say, mobo, processor, one strip of RAM and one HDD - see if anything happens. You should get some beeps as it boots up if there are problems - the manual will tell you what it means - IIRC one beep means all is well. No beeps suggests that it's not even getting to the POST - in this case start to suspect the processor, check that it is correctly installed.

During boot up I think all graphics cards have a very basic mode (can't recall what it's called) which will display text, I think this should work through the DVI sockets too (but I stand to be corrected).

If that works, shut it all down and put another bit in and try again - if there's a duff part this will usually enable you to pin it down.

Just a few thoughts - hope they help.

"No beeps suggests that it's not even getting to the POST"

My Dell has never beeped on bootup - except to complain about the RAM I tried to introduce to it - so that may not indicate a fault.

Okies, we progress. Back from an hour and a half troubleshooting session with "Firedog" self-proclaimed gurus at the high street mega-chain store.

Gurus highly complementary on all aspects, equipment, case, build technique - everything. All looked 100% (but didn't work, lol).

The motherboard obviously has two PCIExpress video slots. One blue, one black. One card in each, bridge across for SLI - nuth'n.

EITHER card in blue slot only brought us to full boot up and bios showing on monitor - so both video cards are good. Yay!! Any attempt to do anything with the black socket (either just one card in there on it's own (nothing in the blue one) or card sat there but not bridged) causes complete failure of the boot.

The guru's instantly go for "faulty slot on the motherboard, send it back for replacement".

Machine is now at home, running on one card, and loading Vista files from the CD.

Graphics cards, by the way are XFX, nVidia GeForce 8600GT. 512mb, DDR3, 128 bit, 540 clock, PCI Express, SLI Ready. (No idea what any of that means, lol).

There is no speaker in this case - so "No encouraging beeps" ever heard from it.

busy downloading manual, keygrip, but THINK for two cards to work they have to be bridged.


Change that, should be ok in either blue or black slot for single card

The Blue skt is 16 times and the black is 8 times, do you have to set both the cards to 8x (if there is a jumper for it) or change the slot speeds in the bios?
The speed needs to be both the same I think.

Yeah, I see the word "recommended" when it says single card in blue slot - not the word "must", so either should work.

Two cards, yes, they have to be bridged to work as dual - but it *seems* that plugging anything into the black socket kills the whole system (hence the guru feeling that the mobo is faulty).

Yes, both need to run at x8 (and the blue is a x16) - not seen anything, anywhere, on how to change the rate. I've certainly not done anything deliberate.

Running fine as a single card - although only feeding one of my two monitors (both plugged into the single dual DVI card in the blue slot).

Vista is being sucked from the DVD drive and being laid out neatly on one of the hard drives.

We are getting there.

Nope, apparently we are not.

Vista was sucked from the Install DVD but ended in a "black screen of death".

All the reports I have managed to find on line suggest going back to XP (or whatever) and updating drivers before doing a re-install of the dreaded Vista.

Now as this machine is a clean new build and has never had anything running on it before, "going back" is not an option.

Please, no comments on "dump it", use linux, buy a Mac (whatever) - but anything constructive would be appreciated. I found lots of on-line reports of it going wrong - no suitable reports on making it work.

If I reboot I do get the screen offereing

Safe Mode.
Safe mode with Networking.
Safe mode with Command Prompt
Last known good configuration
Start Windows Normally.

How about buying the cheapest video card you can, get everything working with that first?

Thanx Bushfiva - you beat me to it, lol.

I'd just come back in to apologise for my frustration driven sense of humour failure.

Your suggestion may well be the way forward. Sigh.

If you have a XP disc I suggest you try installing XP (reformat the HD when it asks you) at least if it works ok then you know it's a Vista problem, if it doesn't it's a hardware one.