TCS, I earned my money pre-aviation as a MCSE. I did Windows, Office, etc, on hardware dating from 386s to pentium 3, on op systems from CP/M thru MSDOS 2 thru to Win98. I have also worked in the past on Unix, Vax/VMS and IBM mainframe environments

Two months ago I bought an eMac G4/1GHz/640MByte/40GByte for AU$1,780 running mac OSX, cheaper than any cash-and-carry department store Win XP machine.

And it out-performs any Win XP machine that costs up to 50% more.

No blue screens. Not one lost minute of productivity getting a driver to work, or finding the .dll that the latest program calls for.

Programs that are user-focussed and aware of each other. Superb graphics and audio capabilities in a basic machine.

Unfortunately the rest of the world is flooded with cr@p. This now I know. Took almost 20 years.

Wanna run PC programs like JeppView? Go to a garage sale and buy an old Win98 machine for the equivalent of one overnight allowance.

I pooh-poohed Macs for eons. I was wrong. Time to take a look at REAL value in a computer, TCS.

TCS,

As the recent viruses and worms have amply demonstrated you and the majority of this very useful forum are freaks:} :}

The vast majority of home PC users had none of the service packs, updates and security patches on board. Ask any PC shop after the last demented 10 days:uhoh: :uhoh:

Your list of fab components are gibberish to the vast majority as well. They are buying computers as white goods for the basics. They follow the advice of any anorak they know to be pointed in roughly the right direction.

They are buying machines unsuitable for their needs because they want a working basic computer not a new hobby. Is this too difficult for PC enthusiasts to understand??? Please just spend half an hour reading this forum as if you just wanted a computer than did e-mail, printed photos and sent them to family over the net.

If you know the name of your motherboard you are a freak in the eyes of 90 plus percent on this site and the rest of the real world. The luxury car analogy is utterly wrong because you are working from your enthusiasts' baseline instead of the vast majority of users. A more realistic view is that you think cars were spoiled the day they took away your lever for advancing and retarding the ignition yourself:E :E

I know that my MX5/Miata/Eunos will fly if I spend the 15 minutes to retime to 14 degrees BTDC rather than 10 degrees although I`ll have to watch carefully for detonation on hot days or with suspect fuel. However, this also means I am a freak in the eyes of the other 250,000 MX5 users who couldn`t give a stuff and thoroughly enjoy the car the way it came from the factory thank you very much................

Same with computers but ordinary people will persist in asking advice from propellorheads who think the stuff on this forum is fun.

It is not fun - it's a pain for the vast majority. That's why they don't run any service packs at all or actively utilise virus protection. They are no more interested in this crap than you are in my ignition timing. Windows and the wintel system will stay crap until you bozos stop helping, stop enjoying this arcane nonsense and the real users demand something that works properly. Just how long would the car industry last if your car ecu started giving giving you the blue sceen of death?????

Other than that - excellent post:ok: :ok: :} :}

Rob

Rob,

WinXP configured properly does not give BSODs, and WinXP does the auto update for you. All you have to do when it updates is hit the button saying it is done and the computer would like to reboot.

Still it comes down to what the person prefers, PC or MAC. That is why there are so many choices out there. Everyone is different.

Take Care,

Richard

P.S. I just chipped my car and boost the HP to 355bhp. I also know the every detail about my mobo. Does that make me a double freak? :eek: :confused: :eek: :confused:

Makes me an ex PC freak and a saddo car freak Richard. I've long held the view that if we'd ever started a car forum here on PPRuNe the aviation content would have been forced into the shade in a matter of months:O :O

Stand by my point though. An enforced stay in another part of the UK in the last two weeks saw me helping out at a really good, local computer store. I can categorically assure you that XP Home edition users have not been using the auto update feature. Most work on the if it ain't broke principle - this went for their virus updating as well:mad: :mad:

This isn't a wintel versus Mac thing - it goes much deeper in my view. An entire industry sells itself on ease of use and practicality but as you pointed out a few weeks ago if you stay away from the state of the art discussion forums for more than a couple of weeks you really feel you're losing touch. I used to be the same way.

Reality is that the overwhelming majority simply buy, plug in the power and comms and work the machine in that state till it stops. They don't update OS, drivers, programs or anything else - it's just supposed to work. That's not hearsay, it is simple maths comparing the non pro networked licence users versus the uptake in service packs and security patches. In percentage terms it's not even double digit uptake.

If you sense any bitterness in the foregoing it's still not a Mac versus PC thing. Sad fact is that 80% of our mailbag here at the Towers is pathetically inept users baffled by the most basic aspects of using a computer. We're talking the level of ''what's logging in??'' :{ :{ :{

Regards
Rob

This threadcreep has been brought to you as a service to soothing my tortured soul after years of answering our admin mail.

PS If I add up the power on the Volvo, the Mazda and the C90 in the tailwheeler I share I can beat your chipped beast....... just.

Rob,

I know what you mean, talking about people not knowing anything about their computers. I gave my father his first computer back in 1994. He still to this day calls me up to ask how to cut and paste. I have taught him dozens of times. Each time he tells me I never taught him that before.

My father is very old school. He ran his businesses without any computers till the day he retired. He would always say, computers were not from his generation and he had no plans of ever using them.

Well, if the cable modem or the mail server ever go down, he is immediately on the phone to me. I think it is that feeling you are cut off from the world when you do not have the information available at your fingertips that the internet provides. Also, he has friends all around the world that he made when he competed in the Olympics in the 60's and 70's. He as been able to fire up the friendship again though email that just was not there with the yearly christmas card.

He is of the mindset that the computer is pure magic and something he will not understand, so he does not try to. He just wants it to work and if it does not, my phone rings seconds later.

I have seen may people out there that think exactly as my father does.

Take Care,

Richard

P.S. With that comment I thin we have successfully hijacked WCollins' thread! :D

Oh, Hijack away! Whip out your Swiss Army Knives and do your worst...I got the information I needed days ago :p

I too provide computer support to everyone in SE England who has my phone number. This is a total pain in the arse. The trouble is, there is not one person among them I want to say no to. Not my father, my wife, my children, my cousin dying of cancer, not the widow of my friend who died of cancer. not my sister, my niece, my father in law, nor any of my colleagues on the bench etc etc.

The trouble is that I say yes to all of them and get absolutely no time to myself. Zilch.

It's a real quandary.

W

WCollins, you would be in exactly the same trouble if you were an auto mechanic, a doctor, a house painter or a plumber......

Thank god we are pilots and not in charge of the ticketing!

"Er, ITCZ, could you just come over and take a look at my basic IF scan....."

:)

As for VALUE, aka $250 pc vs. $1000 mac....... I had a Win98 box that owed me maybe US$50 as my only machine for 5 years. But if I costed my time spent fixing it and getting it to work at a mere US$20/hr, it would still be worse value than my mac.

Like saying a 1966 mini for your 'airport and back' car that has a 'special start routine' that frequently requires opening the bonnet/hood, breaks down when it rains, wakes your wife when you leave to sign on at 0400, needs a new something every couple of months, and requires an average of 2hrs of your mechanical input each week --- is that better value than a 1997 nissan coupe?

Spooky ITCZ - my Cooper is being viewed for sale today for exactly those reasons. The MX5 that's replaced it should hopefully work out to be a Mac-like experience:uhoh: :uhoh: :uhoh:

....... and that's it I promise. No motoring and computer issues forum - err, umm, unless we've got an ecu re-mapping ace in the ranks:ok: :ok: :ok:

Regards to all,
Rob Lloyd

PS Richard. Pa Lloyd turned 80 this last Easter. Wartime heavy bomber pilot and now digital artist. Two desktops, one laptop, widecarriage inkjet and graphics tablets littering the house.

Doesn't do the updates either and had no antivirus till last week:confused: :confused: :confused:

Fix it as in it's a constant problem for you?

If that's the case my guess is you might be using Netscape 4.7? If not give me a hint on the page wrap problem you are experiencing.

Regards
Rob Lloyd

Nothing to do with Macs. vB has the odd bug in it. The 'code' (#) code dosen't wrap but the 'quote' bit should do it for you: Will pass on your points to vB!

Have found one irritating limitation though

Chat programs, esp with cam and sound. Grr. Think I will start a topic.........

I was about to say....

Hijack is one thing, but this is tantamount to a hostile takeover of the whole airline :p

W

It's been a fascinating thread and I for one thank you all for the entertainment.

Vive la difference!

AA