Windows 10 "updates" ......
Part 1:
Microsoft is trying to hijack / screw up my laptop. It is a Lenovo Yoga 310 and maybe 6 months old only. Before I kept getting hassled to "update" and I finally gave in and let it do it a month ago. The "update" nearly turned the machine into a brick. The laptop became so slow the cursor didn't respond. I couldn't open anything, it made the laptop unusable. I had to resort to resetting the machine. After that I spent a day deleting a s@#t load of new crapware. Games, Xbox crap, gaming crap etc etc.. All microsoft related junk. Some of the stuff I had to do DOS like commands to remove the sh%t. Even then some junk I couldn't delete completely. I just want my laptop for surfing and emailing etc. Part 2: About 1 month later, now, as in today I'm getting notifications "they" need to do another update. Again, only a month later, WTF? What do I do? I don't want another "update". I'm happy with the way it is. The laptop is fine as it is. Security updates, no problem, I can accept that. But That's not what the "updates" appear to be doing.. I'm scared about what they are going to do to my machine this time.. As I write this, I just received another prompt to update. What on earth should I do?? Advice would be much appreciated... (please no "go to Linux" type advice) Thanks Michael :ugh::{:confused::uhoh::mad: |
Originally Posted by Octane
(Post 10054837)
Part 1:
Microsoft is trying to hijack / screw up my laptop. It is a Lenovo Yoga 310 and maybe 6 months old only. Before I kept getting hassled to "update" and I finally gave in and let it do it a month ago. The "update" nearly turned the machine into a brick. The laptop became so slow the cursor didn't respond. I couldn't open anything, it made the laptop unusable. I had to resort to resetting the machine. After that I spent a day deleting a s@#t load of new crapware. Games, Xbox crap, gaming crap etc etc.. All microsoft related junk. Some of the stuff I had to do DOS like commands to remove the sh%t. Even then some junk I couldn't delete completely. I just want my laptop for surfing and emailing etc. Part 2: About 1 month later, now, as in today I'm getting notifications "they" need to do another update. Again, only a month later, WTF? What do I do? I don't want another "update". I'm happy with the way it is. The laptop is fine as it is. Security updates, no problem, I can accept that. But That's not what the "updates" appear to be doing.. I'm scared about what they are going to do to my machine this time.. As I write this, I just received another prompt to update. What on earth should I do?? Advice would be much appreciated... (please no "go to Linux" type advice) Thanks Michael :ugh::{:confused::uhoh::mad: Not an IT person so I can not give you any advice. |
So what on earth is going on? We need the internet but as long as we are connected, it seems we are at the mercy of Microsoft? Is it that bad?:sad:
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Originally Posted by Octane
(Post 10054940)
So what on earth is going on? We need the internet but as long as we are connected, it seems we are at the mercy of Microsoft? Is it that bad?:sad:
My girlfriend was complaining the other day because she plugged our Windows 10 PC into the Internet and it suddenly rebooted to install updates while she was in the middle of using it. Because installing updates is far more important than anything people might be using the computer for, apparently. (That's a cheap box we bought just for scanning and iTunes, so it's not connected to the Internet if we don't need it to be) (please no "go to Linux" type advice) |
Thanks for the replies. So it's confirmed I'm powerless to stop Microsoft meddling with my computer? It's not the update concept that annoys me so much as the loads of unwanted crap they insist on installing (I'm 55, I don't want gaming related ****e on my machine, nor do I suspect do millions of other users. They should offer the choice of what WE want on our machines, not what THEY want..). Add to that the chance of their updates going "wrong" and wrecking my laptop as occurred last time..
As for Linux, I have no problem with it. Many people say it's great stuff. It's just that until now I've been quite satisfied with Windows and what it does (I did prefer XP over Windows 10 however). It's just that I don't have the inclination of going through learning curve of learning a completely new operating system and all it entails... |
Are you sure you are allowing real Microsoft upgrades and not "real" looking upgrades?
I have MS Windows 8.1 and my upgrades contain none of the crap you describe come with your upgrades. Upgrades happen about once every month or so and nothing changes on my desktop. |
it seems we are at the mercy of Microsoft? |
I bought an HP Probook last year because it was the only laptop I could find that officially supported Linux. The only downside is that it doesn't have an illuminated keyboard like my old Toshiba, so it's hard to see the keys with the crappy lighting in our living room.
|
i still use windows 8 and now refuse to allow it update any windows updates -
i tried 8.1 it was a nightmare and had to restore my laptop back to factory settings a few years ago asus touch screen - works OK |
I have MS Windows 8.1 and my upgrades contain none of the crap you describe come with your upgrades. Upgrades happen about once every month or so and nothing changes on my desktop. |
Jack,
I think Windows 8 is a completely different animal compared to Win 10.. (I was very happy with XP but the screen died on that laptop some months ago, Win 10 is the only option for a new Windows machine now as far as I know) |
I'm typing this on a ~6 year old bog standard HP pavilion g6 (i5, 6Gb) which originally came with W7 and was updated to W10 a month after it came out. It just works. I accept all the updates and it still just works. I did bypass W8 because it was such a pile of wombat ****e, but W10 works fine.
Trying to avoid the updates is a "bad idea"[tm] because most of them are there to address security vulnerabilities which are either newly emergent or newly identified. Your call. PDR |
Originally Posted by Two Dogs
When W7 support finishes in Jan 2018
|
MS automated updates because, like the OP , a lot of people never did it and they were opening themselves to all sorts of evil folk
perhaps the auto update is a bit nannyish but it does work THE problem is that it waits until you are closing down and just about to run for the train/plane to launch........ I therefore update manually once a week - which reduces the inevitable auto update to a few seconds As for the MS crap - that comes with the territory with any computer service thse days I'm afraid |
Heathrow Harry,
I hear you, and quite understand the need for regular security updates. No problem with that. Even the crapware I can tolerate albeit having to take the time and effort to delete the junk. (I only have a 64 Gb ssd drive, so not much space..). What I don't get is why I'm being pushed for another update only a month after the last disastrous update that nearly ruined my laptop. To be honest, I'm fearful the same thing might happen again, there's no guarantee it won't. Maybe it's a Lenovo thing, I don't know... |
Updates are issued frequently to address newly discovered security issues and to accomodate new hardware and software coming onto the market. Windows 10 is supposed to be a one size fits all operating system so everybody has to update whether it is necessary for their particular machine or not.
If you never connect a computer to the internet or update any of the components, it could quite happily run with the initially supplied installed software forever, never needing an update. Even Linux software needs to be updated, although the user has rather more control over what gets updated and when. That assumes the user has the necessary knowledge to recognise security risks and how to avoid them. Otherwise Linux can present even greater security risks to your data. The most common mistake being users using a root access password for normal day to day tasks, because it gives instant access to all the features of the computer and operating system. For all their proprietory systems and expense, Apple seem to have got the concept of turn key computing with a decent level of security down to a fine art. If all you want to do is browse the Internet and send emails, a tablet computer such as the iPad is all most people need. They too get regular updates, but because the hardware and software is controlled by a single company, there are far fewer problems than with any other type of computer as far as my personal experience is concerned. |
Windows update
An option is to enable automatic updates, but do a manual Windows Update upon each connection to the internet. Then let that finish before doing anything else. Usually it just produces a definitions update. Sometimes that is considerably larger. Then you see the big monthly update. That goes faster if nothing else is being done. And it might be a good time to do a full browsing history delete.
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MAC
I’ve been using Windows machines for a long long time. But when W10 came along I experienced no end of problems including very slow start ups. Then kept on getting ‘cannot connect to the internet’ for no apparent reason which would clear with a restart. Ahhhhhhh another ten minutes wasted. In my frustration I decided to buy a Mac. My god what a difference. Took me a while to get used to it but a year on I could not go back to a Windows machine. So rapid and able to be used within 30 seconds of hitting the start button. I know they are more expensive but you get what you pay for. Everyone I know has now moved over - the revolution has started 😀😀
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I have 2 Win10 machines. One a bit elderly (rather slow, but stable) and the other spiffy new with a Ryzen5 1600.
I've told both when I'm working and to update when I'm asleep. I have NO love for Microsoft (I'm a Linux and BSD man really), but neither machine has given me any problems with updates (unlike Win7). Sorry 'bout that… Mac [I don't even notice the updates on my REAL Mac, a souped-up MacMini, the Linux box (Mint) periodically asks me if I want to update and since I don't keep it on the bleeding edge, has never given me problems. Neither has the FreeBSD box, though I update it manually] :cool: |
I've had an Acer Aspire 5720 with Vista for over 10 years. No problems.
When I got warnings about it not being supported, I bought an Acer Aspire E17 with W10. It's slower, it tells me there's no internet connection after visiting several sites, although my Nexus still connects. I seldom use it, using the old Vista, but mainly my Nexus7. PS I've used W95, W98SE, W2000, WME, WXP, as well as Vista, on several desktops and laptops. This is the worst combination |
Vista has been out of support and vulnerable since April 2017. You really should not be using it any longer, it's a liability for you and potentially many others.
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Originally Posted by Buster15
(Post 10054889)
I too have found that the latest W10 update, which took hours to install has significantly slowed the start up of my laptop (also a Lenovo but older than yours). Once it starts it is not too bad but to be honest I now tend to use my phone as it is so much quicker.
Not an IT person so I can not give you any advice. |
Originally Posted by Octane
(Post 10055621)
Thanks for the replies. So it's confirmed I'm powerless to stop Microsoft meddling with my computer?
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/...ling-in-window https://www.howtogeek.com/224471/how...ading-updates/ |
Originally Posted by Octane
(Post 10054837)
(please no "go to Linux" type advice) Have a rethink - you can get Linux distros which look and perform almost identically to Windows if that is what you feel comfortable with. Personally I hate Microsoft products with a passion specifically for the update sagas that you highlight and rather than fight against the tide perhaps you should consider just changing your OS. You can then spend your time using your PC for work and play rather than fighting Bill Gates. |
Originally Posted by Highway1
(Post 10071641)
Have a rethink - you can get Linux distros which look and perform almost identically to Windows if that is what you feel comfortable with. Personally I hate Microsoft products with a passion specifically for the update sagas that you highlight and rather than fight against the tide perhaps you should consider just changing your OS.
You can then spend your time using your PC for work and play rather than fighting Bill Gates. I liked the idea of Linux and I tried. I really tried, but in the end it became an endless source of frustration. I won't expand upon the frequent times one has to resort to the command line and it's totally foreign, nay alien language. Mind you, I'll admit to qualifying as a grumpy old sod these days, and over the past 35 years or so, I've had to wrestle with quite a few different operating systems starting with TRS-80 cassette (CLOAD - any remember what that was like?). But Linux beat me. These days I sit here as a total slave to whatever Micro$oft throws at me. Most of the time it works. Even Windows 10. (I can hardly believe I wrote that) :bored: FOR |
I was told by a computer salesman, that you must uninstall whatever you're using, THEN, install W10 from scratch; "updating" to W10 is a nightmare; if that's what you're talking about, it's worth a try...
|
There is a huge difference between an OEM Microsoft distro of win 10 and one you get when buying a PC from a name. Its faster and no bloatware.
Now some claim that it its illegal to kill the installation that comes with a PC because the "price" reflects the bloat wear and advertising income. And if you want to control when the updates download turn your internet connections to metered then it will tell you when they are available but won't download them. You won't have control over what it downloads when you trigger it but at least you can trigger it before you go to bed and its done its thing by the time you wake up. |
Originally Posted by FullOppositeRudder
(Post 10072335)
I'm afraid that hasn't been my experience. Mr brief flirtations with the penguin have pretty well all been cursed with recurring updates. Sometimes the "updates" quarrel with the current kernel version. Sometimes the updates required a different driver than the one in use - wireless cards are usually singled out - not to mention bluetooth. Eventually after some months one is advised that this version of Linux is no longer supported and one needs to update to the latest version, only to discover that it's a complete rehash of the interface and nothing one used previously can be found.
I liked the idea of Linux and I tried. I really tried, but in the end it became an endless source of frustration. I won't expand upon the frequent times one has to resort to the command line and it's totally foreign, nay alien language. Mind you, I'll admit to qualifying as a grumpy old sod these days, and over the past 35 years or so, I've had to wrestle with quite a few different operating systems starting with TRS-80 cassette (CLOAD - any remember what that was like?). But Linux beat me. These days I sit here as a total slave to whatever Micro$oft throws at me. Most of the time it works. Even Windows 10. (I can hardly believe I wrote that) :bored: FOR It updates cleanly between releases with no major changes to the interface & I have not experienced the problems you are having with kernels & drivers, however generally if there is an issue googling it will find a solution. Win 10 was installed on one of my laptops and after repeated fights to get it to load as part of the free upgrade from 8.1 I was successful, but since then it hasn't been used. However I also have a legal copy of Win 7 installed as a virtual machine in Linux Mint to allow me to use the few essential programs & communicate with hardware that insist on Windows (e.g. Garmin Base Camp). |
Another vote for Mint Cinnamon - smooth as a tomcat pissing on glass…
As with most of the mainline Linux distros, it'll pretty much look after itself if you're not computer smart, while (of course) letting you tinker to your heart's content if you are. [still trying to get my head round systemd, but that's MY problem…] Mac |
" it'll pretty much look after itself if you're not computer smart"
You know that "pretty much" isn't exactly reassuring....... |
Originally Posted by Heathrow Harry
(Post 10077032)
You know that "pretty much" isn't exactly reassuring.......
The only real issue I've had with updates to our Linux PCs at home was when a kernel change made it incompatible with the onboard-chipset video driver that AMD hadn't updated in over five years. But if the driver had come from the distribution rather than AMD, it would have been fixed before the update was pushed out (AFAIR the fix was a one line change to the code). So I'm thoroughly puzzled by all the people who report that they had zillions of problems getting Linux to work. Unless they're installing random software from source code and expecting not to have to keep it up-to-date. Meanwhile, my VR headset is currently dead because the manufacturer apparently let their driver-signing certificate expire and Windows won't let the driver run. |
Thank you HowardB for your well considered word of encouragement, and apologies for the delay in getting back.
I did give that combination an honest try a little while back, and yes it was appealing in a far more attractive way than the (mostly) Ubuntu variations previously tried. What it did prove to me was that I was locked into several Windoze applications which I needed to perform first up every time without having to either fiddle with settings or learn to do things in a completely new way. Most of these were Amateur Radio programs and this was also the computer which drives the Canon scanner - that didn't look like an adventure I would enjoy. I think it boils down to the rather cruel fact that one is wired to work either with Linux or with something else. My age probably is an influencing factor here - something about an old dog learning new tricks. As mentioned earlier, I've had to learn quite a few operating systems since I first sat down in from of my very own computer somewhere around 25 years ago. Perhaps NOSF (New Operating System Fatigue) has well and truly set in. I did set up a new W10 system this morning for long term connection to the WW in an Amateur Radio role. My old Win XP machine still did it all, but .... well ... you know the rest. So thank you again; clearly for those who both understand and type the language Linux uses, it's an excellent and versatile alternative to those mainstream alternatives. Long may it be so. FOR |
Originally Posted by MG23
(Post 10077194)
I believe that translates into 'less likely to screw up your computer with a random update than Windows 10 is'.
Certainly in my case the 8(ish) assorted PCs and laptops we have in this house did the update/install without missing a beat, and installing their various updates since has been the same - the machine just gets on with it without any drama. After the W10 upgrade all the existing applications were available for use afterwards (a big improvement over previous upgrades One of the laptops hadn't been used for a year or so and was rather behind on its W7 updates, so the W10 install decided to do the "full install" rather than the "upgrade". This took a bit longer, but the result was identical to the others. I'm not saying the claimed problems didn't happen - I'm just saying that in everything I've observed (my own and those of friends and colleagues) they must be a lot rarer that some like to suggest. So I'm thoroughly puzzled by all the people who report that they had zillions of problems getting Linux to work. PDR |
I "own" four laptops, I have two and have passed two on to a friend; two are six or seven years old and are now "reserves" for each of us, one is four years old, the other a year. I successfully upgraded three of them to W10, the newest W10 came as standard.
I've rebuilt the newer two, stepped on one (oops) and knackered the HD (rebuilt this is now my friend's primary laptop), on my newest one W10 committed digital suicide at Christmas. It's now working great again... For some reason one of the original pair (my friend's) won't now accept updates - a particular one just hangs and has done so since late last year - and nor can I find any way to repair or reinstall W10. Looking on Google, it seems to be widespread problem which MS have not resolved. The other one works just fine. As it should be more or less identical to my spare, plan is to swap the HDs when I have some time and see if it works; if so then copy good HD to the other. No idea if that's a workable solution... |
Originally Posted by Mac the Knife
(Post 10076831)
Another vote for Mint Cinnamon - smooth as a tomcat pissing on glass…
I actually prefer the look and feel of Mint KDE but have stuck with Cinnamon as it just fells that everything operates 'sharper' |
Boot from a Win10 installation DVD or USB flash drive and you'll be able to reinstall. Just make sure you use the same language, type (as in Home or Pro) and bit-ness (32- or 64-bit) as you have installed.
Your plan to copy drives may work provided the installations were the same types as above - Win10 activation relies on "digital entitlement" stored on MS servers, not serial numbers/keys so the fact the hardware has had Win10 previously installed means it's "entitled" and doesn't care that the drive is from another laptop. FWIW I've successfully transferred a Win10 drive from HP to Lenovo. |
Originally Posted by PDR1
(Post 10077890)
Again, for the overwhelming majority this is not what they experience.
I'm constantly being asked to help people fix their broken Windows PCs. Fortunately, since I mostly use Linux these days, I can just tell most of them 'sorry, I don't know about Windows'. In my experience even the so-called "non-geek" distros often require "under the hood" knowledge to either install or keep running. |
Originally Posted by Mac the Knife
(Post 10076831)
Another vote for Mint Cinnamon - smooth as a tomcat pissing on glass…
As with most of the mainline Linux distros, it'll pretty much look after itself if you're not computer smart, while (of course) letting you tinker to your heart's content if you are. [still trying to get my head round systemd, but that's MY problem…] Mac |
I'm with PDR here - I know a lot of people like "working under the hood" and I'm willing to believe they may get a better product than vanilla W10 - but the same applies to cars
I COULD spend hours and have fun tweaking my motor - but I choose to get my kicks elsewhere and all I want is for it to start every morning. Not exciting but it works 99.9999% of the time Same with computer systems - and I go back to ALGOL.................. |
Originally Posted by Heathrow Harry
(Post 10079081)
I'm with PDR here
:E I know a lot of people like "working under the hood" and I'm willing to believe they may get a better product than vanilla W10 - but the same applies to cars I COULD spend hours and have fun tweaking my motor - but I choose to get my kicks elsewhere and all I want is for it to start every morning. Not exciting but it works 99.9999% of the time In those days I was very familiar with the under-the-hood stuff with DOS and Windows. Part of my job was creating automated PC-based test and measurement systems for the NC machines, so I was writing low-level code in C and ASM86. The last one I was fully familiar with was WFWG3.11 - I could look at, tinker with and actually understand all those curious statements in the WIN.INI and SYS.INI, seeing a memory exclusion statement and thinking "Yes, of course it needs that". But the arrival of Win95 coincided with my meeting a hot babe who was a particularly poor judge of character, and at that point the enthusiasm to learn a new OS and even the workshop withdrawal symptoms faded, and when we moved into a larger house to provide room for ensprogment the machine tools and car spares were sold off. Now that said sprogs have reached uni-stage I have re-established the workshop, but I'm no longer that interested on building cars or in computers as a hobby - they are just tools which I use. But I still have a life, and I don't feel the urge to waste any of it doing pointless under-the-hood messing about any more. YMMV. Same with computer systems - and I go back to ALGOL.................. PDR |
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