Cheapskate network wiring.
 

I need to link a router to a socket downstairs by RJ45 cable. My ***** builder was asked to run a double phone line in the wall of an extension but only ran a 6-wire phone wire (to a double socket). He also failed to leave any space in the wall for me to get another cable down (no conduit :mad: ).

Can I use the 6-wire phone cable to connect to an RJ45 socket, retaining an extension phone on the remaining wires? As far as I can see I need 4 wires for the RJ45 and 3 for the extension phone, so it looks like no, but will it be possible, and will I suffer on speed as a result?

I would suggest using a couple of ethernet over mains adaptors instead, these use the houses wiring circuit to transmit your signals, and they do work quite reliably.

As to using the existing, the network side requires 4 connects, not sure about the pgone line, I thought that needed 4 as well.

Yes - I looked at the 'mains' option in Maplin the other day. Sounds like the only option.

Where is the downstairs socket compared to the upstairs one? If it is directly below then you shoud be able to attach a draw wire to the upstairs cable and drag it back down through the wall and then attach another cable to the end of the draw wire and pull both cables back up again.

If you have a brick external wall there is normally a gap between the frame and the brickwork with enough room to get a cable through using a length of builders string and a sinker or another small weight on the end of it. If you can get hold of a length of plastic striping that they use on particle board flooring to join it together that stuff is excellent for getting into tight places. Just drill a small hole in the end of it to attach the cable and drag it through the wall.

If you are thinking of using the existing cable you only need 2 wires for the phone but you will more than likely end up with all sorts of interference using the same cable as the phone line.

Also if you are looking at using the adapters that plug into the power points be careful as from what i hear they have to be both on the same circuit to work.
hope it helps. Allen

Allen - no chance of even getting a thin piece of wire down, I'm afraid. Plasterboard more-or-less straight onto existing brick. Only other option is to cut the wall and bury the wire.

I hate the builder.:mad:

In standard Cat 5 networking, only four wires are actually used (the greens and the oranges) (sounds like an order at The Fat Duck).

So your six conductors will be fine.

BUT you need the crimp tool to do it, and a magnifying glass of a fair size.

I have the tool and a copious quantity of plugs. PM an address and I'll post them to you with instructions.

Experience tells me to avoid new technologies if you can use good old copper.

If you specified to the builder it was required and he didn't do it and if you paid extra for it to be done then i would make him come back and do the job as you requested, especially if it was quoted in the price. His stuff up make him fix it, I would.

The only other option is go for a wireless network. Make sure it is 802.11g and set it to WPA or WPA2 if running windows XP and use a very long pass-phrase at least 12 letters or more. Also make sure the hardware is upgradeable by firmware updates. with some hardware i believe you can also reduce signal strength to prevent it going too far a field
Allen

Ah! If only! I have already recovered £9500 of the £10,000 'remedial' costs from that builder (had to get QUITE heavy to get that much:) ) so I've had it there.

Re wifi - it is a wireless router, but a previous thread shows I lose significant speed via wifi so I am RJ45'ing to the desktop. Hence the desire to run the new cable.

Instead of going down the wall from above, can you go up the wall from below?

Wireless router with en route booster box should fix your woes. Pick one up in pc land for buttons.

Thanks guys, but answers are no - solid floor and problem is not signal strength. Previous problem here

Final option.
Can you run the cable through the wall with the electrical cable. Are they run in conduit? The regulations are a lot different in the UK compared to australia and i can only base my ideas on our regs. I also have similar problems getting wires where i need them too. I had to go for the wireless option.
Allen

Could you run some ethernet cable to a wifi access point elsewhere in the house, that gives a better signal to the downstairs PC?

I feel a tad ignored... Just use pins 1, 2, 3 and 6 with four of the six conductors you already have in the walls. Am very happy to lend you the special crimp tool.

boguing - not ignored and thanks! I was, however, under the impression that I would have 'noise' problems if I used the same wire. Are you reckoning it will be ok? I have sourced the modular bits for a double BT/RJ45 socket which I am HOPING will be a screw connect or I might take you up on the crimping offer:)

Cat 5 cable has four pairs of conductors, each pair being twisted at different rates to minimise noise. So, yes, there is a risk of noise.

However, I have used BT wires (when I was out of Cat 5 cable) in my own house without any noticeable problem.

More than worth a try.

Probably going to try the 'boguing' line as I really need a 'wired'link to the router for my desktop due to speed issues. I have located a 'modular' RJ45 socket which has 'IDC' connectors. Wiil a RJ45 crimper handle these?

Nope. This is for the plugs - thought you'd just put a plug on each end of the built-in and much damned BT wire. Then just plug into router and pc. If the ends are coming out of pattresses in the plaster, you can tidy up with one of those plates with a single hole in them.

I'd go with boguing's fix - but I'd have a look at sneaky possibilities to pull a Cat 5 wire first. My youthful amateur radio experience made me a dab hand at running cables where folks least expect it...

A telephone-and-Cat5 pattress plate on the upstairs wall would look quite neat.

The landline telephone will, these days, work happily with just two wires - you need another "master socket" if you want the upstairs one to ring. Just connect the two wires to pins 2 and 5 in the upstairs and downstairs phone sockets.

Thanks Keef - I will be when the time allows. I have explored ever which way to get a new wire down, including poking a hole through the ceiling in the wrong place which I now have to patch:{ . One more remote possibility left to try but I do not hold out any hope. Teaches me to stand over a builder while he does the work 'to spec' instead of going off to work.:mad:

Thanks for the tip on 'ring'. The modular stuff has a master/extension module option. If you need a web link to the stuff PM me, but Maplin have a limited range you can look at.

Just a quick addendum - the TLC website details how to use one pair and a master socket for a telephone extension.

It works as I've had to do it in the past and I know you are familiar with TLC BOAC from previous discussions !

Thank you LL34 - will look:ok:

Edit - To ask for a PM with the link if you would be so kind - I can only find a ref to using 3-wires on an extension socket?

Have done ! Suspect you are aware of much if not all of it already.

One last go today at getting a new wire down and it is hopeless! The plasterboard is simply stuck onto the wall, and no matter how I try to get down I am kneee deep in the stuff.

So, on to the telephone wire - BUT as a Bank Holiday interlude I have moved the 3Com wireless router into the attic to check the 'basic' wifi signal from an elevated position.

Now, apologies for mixing threads here, but I recall someone telling me 'elsewhere' that mixing a PC Card from one manufacturer (Asus) with a router (3Com) will not give good results. Indeed I have a 'poor' signal strength with that config. Oddly my laptop (HP with OEM wifi) gives a good signal alongside the PC and shows 'good' (3/5 bars) right out to my gate a few dozen feet away. Perhaps the Asus card is rubbish? Anyone any opinions of Asus? Are we that flakey in this wireless world? Should I bother to put a 3Com card in instead of the Asus?

NB I will be trying the telephone wire connection soon but am at 'half-way house' at the moment.:)

Why not get bold:

Get yourself a wall chaser, put a 30mm channel into the wall about 30mm deep, dig it out with a hammer and steel, coat the channel liberally with some PVA adhesive and stick in some 20 or 25mm conduit and drop your own cable down from upstairs. Connect into the backbox with a conduit connector (20mm).

Glue the conduit into the recess with a hot-glue gun. Slap in some base coat plaster leaving about a 2mm depth.

Finish with some finishing plaster when the base is dry, get yourself a proper plasterers steel. Rub over about a day later with a sander and you'll never know you were in there.

When we renovated our house, I stuck in about 30 cat5 outlets doing the above, and once you have got a couple under your belt, you'll be happy to do them wherever you like! A floodwired house is a happy house...

BW

Done that, but it requires an element of boldness and only works if you haven't already papered the wall.

Cheat. Put the WiFi router in the attic, where it can "see" down into all the rooms...

Yes - all my previous attempts at 'neat' plastering are sticking out like the proverbials:)

It is the 'seeing' into the rooms that I am having the problem with.:confused: I would have expected a 'super' wash-down of signal, but no.

Ah! If you can mount the WiFi unit in the attic on its side, so that the antenna is horizontal, then it will "squirt" downwards into the rooms below.

If the antenna is vertical, the signal comes off it horizontally (mostly).

Meanwhile, the telephone...

Connect the two available wires for telephone to pins 2 and 5 in the master socket. That doesn't pick up the separate "ring" line. If you want the added one to ring, then buy a "master" socket to go on the end of those two wires.

Well, my pack of 'goodies' should arrive tomorrow, so in time I will know if the telephone wire will 'work':ok:. Exciting, innit?:)

BOAC - are the rooms on outside walls? I only ask as I had a similar dilemma which I overcame with a 30cm / 1/4in masonry bit through plasterboard, breezeblock and brick. Couple of RJ45 plugs and some cable and the jobs a good'un. I must get round to fixing the cable to the outside wall sometime.

Hi 'ob' - sadly not, and to add to my woes the inner wall cavity behind was 'foam filled' by a previous owner which removed another option. If my rogue builder is ever found with a 3ft spirit level 'loaded' you'll know who to blame.:) When I looked 'deeper' into the telephone cable (and TV aerial) run from the loft I found them both buried deep in a large 'wodge' of plaster behind the board and gave up drilling down through after my 14" masonry bit reached the end stop.:ugh:

Bugger!................

ob - just found this at the bottom of this page - it may be of interest:eek:

This is a request for help from boguing/lost luggage - or anyone in fact!

So far so good - telephone 'ringing' on the new 'BT' modular connector and internet connection also fine there. I have now to connect pins 1,2,3 and 6 on the RJ45 module (damn- its going to look smart:) ). TLC do not provide a pin numbering guide for the socket back, and I have trawled the internet for one. I have 2 rows of 3 IDC connectors, all with colour flashes alongside but no numbers. Does anyone know how I identify 1,2,3 and 6?

Ta all.

Edit: added 2 pics, one with and one without flash.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...Picture007.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...Picture008.jpg

OK - I haven't trimmed the ends of the telephone wires yet..................:ugh:

Nothing is ever easy is it. The question is have they colour coded the correct pins, in which case all you ould need to do is follow the colour coding i.e. white/orange - pin 1, orange - pin2, white/green - pin3 and green - pin 6. my guess is that its 1,2,3,6 on the left hand side bottom to top
Thinks I would be very tempted to con check them with a meter first. pin 1 should be the far right of the bottom (rj45) plug as you have photoed.
Rickity

Thanks Rickity - pending further advice, a meter job seems a good idea! I'll try to tie up the wiring diagram for the plug with the pins and the contacts and .................................

Next nightmare....... how do I know whether I'm looking at RJ45 568A or 568B? Who thought this lot up?:ugh:

BOAC
not sure that the difference between 568b or 568a matters too much providing its the same at both ends. i.e. tx on 1&2, rx on 3&6, pins and cable ids given are 568b and work for me on any ethernet.
below is a cut and paste from my info, looks like the picture wont post easlily but hope it helps.
Rickity
T-568B Color Code for RJ-45 Plug
Eight-conductor data cable contains 4 pairs of wires. Each pair consists of a solid (or predominantly) colored wire and a white wire with a stripe of the same color. The pairs are twisted together. To maintain reliability on Ethernet, you should not untwist them any more than necessary (like about 1 cm).
There are two wiring standards for these cables, called "T-568A" and T-568B" They differ only in connection sequence, not in use of the various colors. The illustration shown is for T-568B. The pairs designated for 10BaseT Ethernet are Orange and Green. The other two pairs, Brown and Blue, can be used for a second Ethernet line or for phone connections.
Note that the Blue pair is on the center pins and conveniently corresponds to the Red and Green pair in a normal phone line. The connections shown are specifically for an RJ45 plug (the thing on the end of the wire). The wall jack may be wired in a different sequence because the wires are actually crossed inside the jack. The jack should either come with a wiring diagram or at least designate pin numbers that you can match up to the color code below.
Pin Number Designations
There are pin number designations for each color in T568B as well. The pin designations are as follows:
Color Codes for T568B
Pin color pair name
--- ----- ---- ---------
1 wh/or 2 TxData +
2 or 2 TxData -
3 wh/grn 3 RecvData+
4 blu 1
5 wh/blu 1
6 grn 3 RecvData-
7 wh/brn 4
8 brn 4
Note that the odd pin numbers are always the white with stripe color.

Found this in a search (at least it has pin numbers!)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...RJ45Module.jpg
and it would SUGGEST my module is from bottom left anti-clockwise:

B/B-W = 1/1
Or/Or-W= 2/2
G/G-W = 3/3
Br/Br-W = 4/4

To make it clear what I am trying to do. I need to plug a 'commercial' RJ45(B?) cable into this socket to connect to the 'puter. I can sort the other end out where I connect to the router once I have the pins right.

Anyone brave enough to confirm? I then need to wire 1,2,3 and 6 if I have this puzzle cracked? Hoping that means:-

Solid Blue
Solid Orange
Solid Green

But where is 6??:confused: . Then it gets even more confusing:


According to the EIA/TIA-568B RJ-45 Wiring Scheme:
Pair#2 (white/orange, orange) and Pair#3 (white/green, green) are the only two pairs used for 10BaseT data.

Pair#2 is connected to pins 1 and 2 like this:
Pin 1 wire color: white/orangePin 2 wire color:orange

Pair#3 is connected to pins 3 and 6 like this:
Pin 3 wire color:white/greenPin 6 wire color:green</B>

There has to be an easier way........................:ugh:

Edit to add: I think the little light has just come on in my head:mad:

1/2/3/4 on the diagram refer to the cable pairs? I think I read somewhere that the wires with white flash are odd numbers? Is there perhaps a glimmer of hope? I used to think 6.5 hour air-refuelled trips in a single-seat interceptor escorting the baddies through the Iceland/Faroes gap were difficult - just think if I had had to wire a RJ45 as well..............:)

Never done it, but if you examine a Cat 5 plug - one where you can see the colours of the wires...

Mine always came connected :(

BOAC
re reading most of the above I think I begin to see the problem, that is you have 6 wire cable which hasnt the same colours and uses as the cat5/rj45 cable that has been referred to but all is not lost. I see that blue and red (or orange) are already used for the telephone connection. next step is to see if any of the other 4 wires are twisted in 2 pairs, if they are connect any pair to the bottom left 2 contacts on your plug next to the orange rectangle and orange triangle, this will become your tx + and - which should be connected to pins 1 and 2 on the rj45 connector going into your router, or what ever your connecting to. the other pair should be connected to the top left 2 connections next to the green rectangle and green triangle rx + and -, the other end will connect to pins 3 and 6 of the rj45 connector.
pc rj45 white/orange pin1 -wall connector bottom left- outofwall - pin1 rj45 router
pc rj45 organge pin2 - wall connector next one up - outofwall - pin2 rj45 router
pc rj45 green/white pin3 - wall connector nextone up - out of wall -pin3 rj45 router
pc rj45 green pin 6 - wall connector top left - outof wall - pin 6 rj45 router
if you cant find any twisted pairs in the telepone cable then just use the wires as you like as long as you end up connecting through a pin1 to a pin1 etc. although without twisted pairs it may suffer in performance.

Hope this helps

Rickity