Downloading HDD contents
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Sounds like a job for "Laplink"!
http://www.laplink.com/
However, the other solutions you have been given will allow you to do what you describe, without a second computer.
http://www.laplink.com/
However, the other solutions you have been given will allow you to do what you describe, without a second computer.
Plastic PPRuNer
As they say in Ireland, "You can't get there from here..." But let's try.
First of all obviously you'll have to link the computers together. I take it from your reference to a crossover cable that you mean by an Ethernet network. Must therefore assume that you have got network cards in both, a crossover cable and have already set up or know how to set up a network. If not, then assume you want to use Laplink as suggested by newswatcher or Micro$oft's own Direct Cable Connection and have or can get the cables.
Anyway, let's assume that you have already implemented or can implement one of these solutions. Use XXCOPY (not xcopy) referred to in http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...ight=Partition to clone the contents of the HD of C2 to a new temporary directory on C1.
Now replace the HD of C2 with a new HD. Okay, we now have a fairly insoluble problem since the blank HD on C2 won't boot & despite being able to boot DOS 7 with an emergency disk you have no means of communicating with C1.
We all know what you want to do (which isn't difficult) and have been trying to help you do it. Doing what you want to do the way you want to do it is not possible. And yelling at the good fobotcso won't help.
Pay the 30 quid.
[actually I can think of one or two esoteric non-intuitive possibilities to attempt it but none within the range of my sanity.]
First of all obviously you'll have to link the computers together. I take it from your reference to a crossover cable that you mean by an Ethernet network. Must therefore assume that you have got network cards in both, a crossover cable and have already set up or know how to set up a network. If not, then assume you want to use Laplink as suggested by newswatcher or Micro$oft's own Direct Cable Connection and have or can get the cables.
Anyway, let's assume that you have already implemented or can implement one of these solutions. Use XXCOPY (not xcopy) referred to in http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...ight=Partition to clone the contents of the HD of C2 to a new temporary directory on C1.
Now replace the HD of C2 with a new HD. Okay, we now have a fairly insoluble problem since the blank HD on C2 won't boot & despite being able to boot DOS 7 with an emergency disk you have no means of communicating with C1.
We all know what you want to do (which isn't difficult) and have been trying to help you do it. Doing what you want to do the way you want to do it is not possible. And yelling at the good fobotcso won't help.
Pay the 30 quid.
[actually I can think of one or two esoteric non-intuitive possibilities to attempt it but none within the range of my sanity.]
Thread Starter
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Once again thanks for all the good advice..............
I will let you know which method I used and how it went. For the record, I didn't mean to have a go at FOBOTCSO......some of his previous advice has been very helpful and useful. However, you've got to admit it was a pretty patronising post to say the least. Especially having just got back from the flying club after suitable refreshments.
No hard feelings I hope FOBOTCSO..........
Regards to all of you
FBW
I will let you know which method I used and how it went. For the record, I didn't mean to have a go at FOBOTCSO......some of his previous advice has been very helpful and useful. However, you've got to admit it was a pretty patronising post to say the least. Especially having just got back from the flying club after suitable refreshments.
No hard feelings I hope FOBOTCSO..........
Regards to all of you
FBW
"there isn't a problem"? In that case, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
If you are running out of disk space, then *add* another drive. If you've run out of IDE slots (most if not all modern PCs will support four devices) and you need to replace the disk, or if you think the old one is at death's door, then follow one of the suggested disk cloning methods.
If you are running out of disk space, then *add* another drive. If you've run out of IDE slots (most if not all modern PCs will support four devices) and you need to replace the disk, or if you think the old one is at death's door, then follow one of the suggested disk cloning methods.
Carping at people who are trying to help doesn't do you any favours, FBW. It makes us all think twice about even trying to help you. I know I hummed & ha-ed over responding...
It sounds like you're trying to backup your data from C1 onto C2 then restore the data to a new HD in C1. I gather you have WinXP on C2.
A possible solution:
* Remove the old HD from C1. Plug it into the second IDE channel on C2 (use the data cable from C1) or into the slave plug on C2's primary HD (if it has one that will be a second connector on C2's HD data cable)
* Use 'xxcopy' software as mentioned by Mac the Knife to copy the contents of C1 HD to C2 HD (now they're in the same machine).
* Replace the old C1 HD (in C2) with the new C1 HD.
* Use 'xxcopy' to copy the stored C1 data on C2 onto the new C1 HD.
* Remove the C1 HD from C2 & install into C1.
Some notes:
You won't have to mount the C1 disks in C2, it's sufficient to just plug the power & data cables in. Sit the C1 HD on any convenient non-conducting surface.
Make sure the jumpers on C1 HD are set appropriately. You will need to set C1 HD to 'slave' if you plug it into a second connector on the same cable as C2 HD.
If you DON'T have WinXP on C2 ie you have DOS or Win9x then you will first have to remove the 'active' or 'boot' attribute from the boot partition in the C1 disk. This will need to be done BEFORE you remove the HD from C1. A good piece of software is 'Ranish Partition Manager'. It beats the hell out of M$ 'fdisk' (and is free!).
'Norton Ghost' or equivalent software will also do the job, same as 'xxcopy'. Xxcopy is free but is a command line interface: No point & click.
Make sure you have a working DOS boot floppy with necessary software on it ie 'xxcopy', 'ranish PM', Powerquest 'Partition Magic' etc.
It sounds like you're trying to backup your data from C1 onto C2 then restore the data to a new HD in C1. I gather you have WinXP on C2.
A possible solution:
* Remove the old HD from C1. Plug it into the second IDE channel on C2 (use the data cable from C1) or into the slave plug on C2's primary HD (if it has one that will be a second connector on C2's HD data cable)
* Use 'xxcopy' software as mentioned by Mac the Knife to copy the contents of C1 HD to C2 HD (now they're in the same machine).
* Replace the old C1 HD (in C2) with the new C1 HD.
* Use 'xxcopy' to copy the stored C1 data on C2 onto the new C1 HD.
* Remove the C1 HD from C2 & install into C1.
Some notes:
You won't have to mount the C1 disks in C2, it's sufficient to just plug the power & data cables in. Sit the C1 HD on any convenient non-conducting surface.
Make sure the jumpers on C1 HD are set appropriately. You will need to set C1 HD to 'slave' if you plug it into a second connector on the same cable as C2 HD.
If you DON'T have WinXP on C2 ie you have DOS or Win9x then you will first have to remove the 'active' or 'boot' attribute from the boot partition in the C1 disk. This will need to be done BEFORE you remove the HD from C1. A good piece of software is 'Ranish Partition Manager'. It beats the hell out of M$ 'fdisk' (and is free!).
'Norton Ghost' or equivalent software will also do the job, same as 'xxcopy'. Xxcopy is free but is a command line interface: No point & click.
Make sure you have a working DOS boot floppy with necessary software on it ie 'xxcopy', 'ranish PM', Powerquest 'Partition Magic' etc.
Just a point. Why do you want to use the second computer? If you connected the new drive to C1 using the second cable connector OR another cable to the second IDE port then you should be able to use 'xxcopy' or the new HD manufacturer's supplied data transfer utilities.
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Both computers are operated by a KVM switch and I sometimes link them using a crossover cable. I thought there might have been some method of full HDD data transfer while they were connected.
Regards
FBW
Regards
FBW
Plastic PPRuNer
FBW - as I said, what you want to do isn't impossible, just an order of magnitude more difficult than the standard answer that most of us have suggested.
You'll need to create a boot floppy that gives you access to the network. These are used in diskless workstations and by system installers. I've never done this so I can't give you any specific instruction. Mobos, network cards, protocols and network access are all pretty individual so the bootdisk has to be a bit tailored to your installation.
I searched Google for boot+network+windows and got you a couple of starting points.
Have a look at http://www.appdeploy.com/faq/browse....otdiskcreation which should give you some ideas. Also http://www.i386.com/default.asp?c=6&k=12 et. seq. and http://www.pctip.ch/downloads/dl/22842.asp
This looks promising: "Bart's msclient bootdisk http://www.nu2.nu/bootdisk/network is a customized TCP/IP network bootdisk that enables you to connect to a network share on a Windows NT/2K or Windows 9x/ME machine using a range of network cards." - seems as near to a generic bootdisk is you're going to get.
I think you should be prepared for a bit of hacking and relevant forum browsing. Unless you're very lucky first go, by the time you succeeded you'll know more about the esoterica of floppy and remote network boots than any of us, so _please_ keep us informed.
[Another alternative, if your mobo BIOS supports it, is PXE boot from Network. I don't know much about PXE boots, so you'll have to research it yourself. There are even PXE-on-disk utilities available (try http://www.argontechnology.com/mbadisk/index.shtml ) but pricey and I have no idea of the details of how they work.]
Once you've gotten C2 connected to C1 _without_ the aid of the original HDD but _with_ access to it, you can dump the contents of that drive onto C1 using xxcopy. You can then install the new HDD onto C2, fdisk it, make the boot partition active, format it, reconnect to the network with your boot floppy and xxcopy the copy of the original HDD back to the boot partition of the new HDD on C2. With a bit of luck it'll boot cleanly and you're away.
I think this is actually the answer that you were looking for, but it really would have helped if you had started off by explaining just why doing this fairly routine task the easy/usual way wasn't appropriate for your situation and not SHOUTING.
Edited to add: Curiosity has got the better of me (as usual) - I'm now buidling a Bart's msclient bootdisk for my own system - it isn't a trivial task. Interesting. The instructions are a bit terse but I should be able to work it out eventually.
You'll need to create a boot floppy that gives you access to the network. These are used in diskless workstations and by system installers. I've never done this so I can't give you any specific instruction. Mobos, network cards, protocols and network access are all pretty individual so the bootdisk has to be a bit tailored to your installation.
I searched Google for boot+network+windows and got you a couple of starting points.
Have a look at http://www.appdeploy.com/faq/browse....otdiskcreation which should give you some ideas. Also http://www.i386.com/default.asp?c=6&k=12 et. seq. and http://www.pctip.ch/downloads/dl/22842.asp
This looks promising: "Bart's msclient bootdisk http://www.nu2.nu/bootdisk/network is a customized TCP/IP network bootdisk that enables you to connect to a network share on a Windows NT/2K or Windows 9x/ME machine using a range of network cards." - seems as near to a generic bootdisk is you're going to get.
I think you should be prepared for a bit of hacking and relevant forum browsing. Unless you're very lucky first go, by the time you succeeded you'll know more about the esoterica of floppy and remote network boots than any of us, so _please_ keep us informed.
[Another alternative, if your mobo BIOS supports it, is PXE boot from Network. I don't know much about PXE boots, so you'll have to research it yourself. There are even PXE-on-disk utilities available (try http://www.argontechnology.com/mbadisk/index.shtml ) but pricey and I have no idea of the details of how they work.]
Once you've gotten C2 connected to C1 _without_ the aid of the original HDD but _with_ access to it, you can dump the contents of that drive onto C1 using xxcopy. You can then install the new HDD onto C2, fdisk it, make the boot partition active, format it, reconnect to the network with your boot floppy and xxcopy the copy of the original HDD back to the boot partition of the new HDD on C2. With a bit of luck it'll boot cleanly and you're away.
I think this is actually the answer that you were looking for, but it really would have helped if you had started off by explaining just why doing this fairly routine task the easy/usual way wasn't appropriate for your situation and not SHOUTING.
Edited to add: Curiosity has got the better of me (as usual) - I'm now buidling a Bart's msclient bootdisk for my own system - it isn't a trivial task. Interesting. The instructions are a bit terse but I should be able to work it out eventually.
Last edited by Mac the Knife; 26th May 2003 at 02:03.
Plastic PPRuNer
Hmmm.. Okay, done! Quite interesting. I'm booting a P2 off the floppy exclusively and can logon to my workgroup. I can map my shares on the other PC to a driveletter on the P2 and do a DIR no problem.
I'm just seeing the 8.3 names right now and Network Neighborhood and find are having trouble seeing the P2, but this should be overcomeable (?). If not, then losing the LFNs is a bit of a problem, particularly for what you want to do.
[On second thoughts, it isn't overcomeable, because the network client is DOS based and knows nothing about LFNs]
I shall explore this further.
Thanks Flybywyre for inadvertently setting me an interesting exercise. Hope things are going better with you.
Edited to add: S'pose you could do it by backing up and restoring the LFNs [Use DOSLFNBK from http://www8.pair.com/dmurdoch/programs/doslfnbk.htm - shareware $10, rather than the awful and dangerous Win95 LFNBK]. On the other hand you could buy a copy of Norton Ghost ($70), which will backup an image over a network and do lots of other magic.
I'm just seeing the 8.3 names right now and Network Neighborhood and find are having trouble seeing the P2, but this should be overcomeable (?). If not, then losing the LFNs is a bit of a problem, particularly for what you want to do.
[On second thoughts, it isn't overcomeable, because the network client is DOS based and knows nothing about LFNs]
I shall explore this further.
Thanks Flybywyre for inadvertently setting me an interesting exercise. Hope things are going better with you.
Edited to add: S'pose you could do it by backing up and restoring the LFNs [Use DOSLFNBK from http://www8.pair.com/dmurdoch/programs/doslfnbk.htm - shareware $10, rather than the awful and dangerous Win95 LFNBK]. On the other hand you could buy a copy of Norton Ghost ($70), which will backup an image over a network and do lots of other magic.
Last edited by Mac the Knife; 26th May 2003 at 05:49.
Simpleton's question - this time involving 2 laptops. Old one runs Win95, new one runs WinXP Pro.
I wish to transfer several large files from old to new. Slow way is to transfer them to floppy, then upload from floppy into new computer.
But can I connect the 2 laptops together with a serial cable or USB cable, put all the files I want to transfer into a specific folder (let's call it 'Transfer') and then copy 'Transfer' down the cable to the new computer's C-drive?
No doubt that'd be far too easy and I would probably need some geeky software or somesuch. Don't intend to do that - or to fart about with IR ports - so can it be done simply and easily?
I wish to transfer several large files from old to new. Slow way is to transfer them to floppy, then upload from floppy into new computer.
But can I connect the 2 laptops together with a serial cable or USB cable, put all the files I want to transfer into a specific folder (let's call it 'Transfer') and then copy 'Transfer' down the cable to the new computer's C-drive?
No doubt that'd be far too easy and I would probably need some geeky software or somesuch. Don't intend to do that - or to fart about with IR ports - so can it be done simply and easily?
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
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FBW - WHEN everyone got to page 3 you told us what you really wanted! I do not moderate THIS forum, so EMFBI, but I know Crash asked everyone to give as much detail as possible on P1. Your P1 post was misleading, and thereby a few collars have become heated unecessarily. There is a large number of helpful and patient people here and they have been trying to help. This sort of help would cost you big dollars in the commercial world. 'Sorry' would not go amiss! Nuff said?
Beags - I would offer Laplink for starters. You can run another PC via its screen - either by cable or even down the modem, as well as up and download files to your heart's content! I got my copy (free!) from a mag. PM me. The 'cheap' built-in option is MS Direct Cable Connection which uses serial or parallell ports. There is also a USB connection cable that costs around £25 and does the biz. Floppy would take forever and we are all finite(!) and would entail disk spanning no doubt?
Beags - I would offer Laplink for starters. You can run another PC via its screen - either by cable or even down the modem, as well as up and download files to your heart's content! I got my copy (free!) from a mag. PM me. The 'cheap' built-in option is MS Direct Cable Connection which uses serial or parallell ports. There is also a USB connection cable that costs around £25 and does the biz. Floppy would take forever and we are all finite(!) and would entail disk spanning no doubt?
Plastic PPRuNer
Yes, through M$'s Direct Cable Connection facility/utility (included in all versions of Windows). Help should walk you through it and I don't think it's too complicated.
Never used it, just anecdotal stuff from friends. Certainly slow, but apparently works fine, esp. if you have not too much to transfer. Some assembly required unfortunately (not too much), batteries not included....
http://www.tecno.demon.co.uk/dcc/dcc.html seems good
http://www.wown.info/j_helmig/wxpdcc9i.htm points out some XP traps. Also http://www.techtv.com/callforhelp/an...000467,00.html and http://www.wown.com/j_helmig/dccmain.htm or Google for Direct Cable Connection
Never used it, just anecdotal stuff from friends. Certainly slow, but apparently works fine, esp. if you have not too much to transfer. Some assembly required unfortunately (not too much), batteries not included....
http://www.tecno.demon.co.uk/dcc/dcc.html seems good
http://www.wown.info/j_helmig/wxpdcc9i.htm points out some XP traps. Also http://www.techtv.com/callforhelp/an...000467,00.html and http://www.wown.com/j_helmig/dccmain.htm or Google for Direct Cable Connection
Mac,
An alternative to making up a Windows boot floppy would be using a Knoppix Linux CD. Never tried it, but I understand it's a full Linux distro that boots off the CD and would therefore (I assume) allow you to run Samba to mount the remote drive. Actual copying of partitions could be done using the "dd" command. You'll find it on knoppix.com. I'm downloading it now so if you want I can report back on how well it seems to work as a bootable environment. Don't expect me to start copying partitions around!
I'd still copy direct from old disk to new disk rather than via another machine...
One possible "gotcha" that nobody seems to have mentioned so far is Windows XP product activation - "If you overhaul your computer by replacing a substantial number of hardware components, it may appear to be a different PC. You may have to reactivate Windows XP" says M$.
An alternative to making up a Windows boot floppy would be using a Knoppix Linux CD. Never tried it, but I understand it's a full Linux distro that boots off the CD and would therefore (I assume) allow you to run Samba to mount the remote drive. Actual copying of partitions could be done using the "dd" command. You'll find it on knoppix.com. I'm downloading it now so if you want I can report back on how well it seems to work as a bootable environment. Don't expect me to start copying partitions around!
I'd still copy direct from old disk to new disk rather than via another machine...
One possible "gotcha" that nobody seems to have mentioned so far is Windows XP product activation - "If you overhaul your computer by replacing a substantial number of hardware components, it may appear to be a different PC. You may have to reactivate Windows XP" says M$.
Plastic PPRuNer
Hi 25 - ya, thought of doing it through Linux & I'm sure it's possible somehow using customised boot and root disks. Probably the best/easiest(sic) way. Since I'm moving away from 20 years of monopolistic M$ avarice via Suse 8.1 I'll investigate the matter further. AFAIK many of the Linux distros support booting off the CD, so that should be OK, but how do you write your samba.conf file on a RO medium? If the kernel supported it, perhaps you could load it dynamically as a module?
The "Bart's msclient bootdisk" isn't a Windows boot floppy, but DOS 7 using a real-mode network driver - the modular boot sequence is quite clever and works nicely. The instructions on the site are terse and the location of one of the boot files was incorrect & needed fixing. I'm still playing with it. Nevertheless, the network IS accessible.
However, copying Windows HDDs in real mode is fraught with problems as Kan Yabumoto of XXCOPY warns:
Q: "Can I stay in DOS (real mode) to duplicate the disk using XXCOPY16?"
A: "We strongly recommend the use of XXCOPY.EXE (the 32-bit version which must run under the Win32 environment), as described in this page. When you stay in the DOS (real mode) environment, you may not be able to access all the files and directories in your disk drive. This is due to the fact that the DOS environment cannot handle a pathname which exceeds the 80 character limit. Although each long name comes with its short name (8.3 format) alias, there could still be a heavily nested, very long path which exceeds the 80-character limit after converting all of the long directory names into their short name alias (for the same reason, SCANDISK fails on certain volume in 16-bit mode).
If all of the files in your drive have a full pathname less than 80 characters, you can use XXCOPY16 with the /CLONE switch to create an interim copy of the source disk which can be made bootable. After you boot into the Win9x environment, you should convert all of the shortnames in your system disk into the corresponding longname using the following command (assuming the D: drive is the original source drive)XXCOPY D:\ C:\ /S /NL
This procedure lets you restore most of the long filenames. However, there will be a small number of files and directories which are made prior to this XXCOPY run (immediately after the first Win9x initialization). That is, you need to perform additional procedures by hand to make necessary adjustments. In short, this procedure is troublesome at best and we don't recommend it to anyone who asks this question in the first place."
Perhaps DOSLFNBK would help and I bet that it is actually possible to do it, though not without considerable effort & tears.
"I'd still copy direct from old disk to new disk rather than via another machine..."
Me too, but although he doesn't explain why he can't go that route I assume that for some arcane reason it is impossible.
FBW seems to imply that only C2 is running XP, so C1 _may_ be using a non-copyprotected OS - anyway, he'd just have to reactivate it if XP got upset about finding itself on a different HDD - as mentioned on another thread it might not notice if the volume ID was set to be the same as the orginal drive.
Curious topic. I wonder what the professionals would say.
Goodnight all....
The "Bart's msclient bootdisk" isn't a Windows boot floppy, but DOS 7 using a real-mode network driver - the modular boot sequence is quite clever and works nicely. The instructions on the site are terse and the location of one of the boot files was incorrect & needed fixing. I'm still playing with it. Nevertheless, the network IS accessible.
However, copying Windows HDDs in real mode is fraught with problems as Kan Yabumoto of XXCOPY warns:
Q: "Can I stay in DOS (real mode) to duplicate the disk using XXCOPY16?"
A: "We strongly recommend the use of XXCOPY.EXE (the 32-bit version which must run under the Win32 environment), as described in this page. When you stay in the DOS (real mode) environment, you may not be able to access all the files and directories in your disk drive. This is due to the fact that the DOS environment cannot handle a pathname which exceeds the 80 character limit. Although each long name comes with its short name (8.3 format) alias, there could still be a heavily nested, very long path which exceeds the 80-character limit after converting all of the long directory names into their short name alias (for the same reason, SCANDISK fails on certain volume in 16-bit mode).
If all of the files in your drive have a full pathname less than 80 characters, you can use XXCOPY16 with the /CLONE switch to create an interim copy of the source disk which can be made bootable. After you boot into the Win9x environment, you should convert all of the shortnames in your system disk into the corresponding longname using the following command (assuming the D: drive is the original source drive)XXCOPY D:\ C:\ /S /NL
This procedure lets you restore most of the long filenames. However, there will be a small number of files and directories which are made prior to this XXCOPY run (immediately after the first Win9x initialization). That is, you need to perform additional procedures by hand to make necessary adjustments. In short, this procedure is troublesome at best and we don't recommend it to anyone who asks this question in the first place."
Perhaps DOSLFNBK would help and I bet that it is actually possible to do it, though not without considerable effort & tears.
"I'd still copy direct from old disk to new disk rather than via another machine..."
Me too, but although he doesn't explain why he can't go that route I assume that for some arcane reason it is impossible.
FBW seems to imply that only C2 is running XP, so C1 _may_ be using a non-copyprotected OS - anyway, he'd just have to reactivate it if XP got upset about finding itself on a different HDD - as mentioned on another thread it might not notice if the volume ID was set to be the same as the orginal drive.
Curious topic. I wonder what the professionals would say.
Goodnight all....
Mac, I've been playnig with Knoppix on the box that usually runs Win98 and I'm impressed. If you've got the bandwidth, I'd recommend burning yourself a CD. Unlike other distros it's designed specifically for booting off CD. It uses compression so it comes with ~1.8 gig of software, including open office, web browsers etc... TCP/IP worked automagically. Could be quite fun to stick in a mate's machine to show them Linux. It mounts the hard disk, read-only. It also creates a ramdisk. And it's got WINE so you can run Windows programs.
So anyway, back to the problem in hand: Knoppix has a full Samba on board so you can use smbmount to mount a remote MS box's drives. Alternatively you could run smbd and use an smb.conf in the ramdisk (check the man page for the magic runes for this) if you want to share a drive that way.
Unlike xxcopy, dd does a sector by sector copy when you give it partitions rather than files to copy; so you don't get the 8.3 problem. And I'm assuming that a FAT based filesystem will survive being moved onto a larger partition...
Here's some stuff about using dd across a network, by using netcat (which is new to me):
http://www.rajeevnet.com/tips_hints/...s_cloning.html
So anyway, back to the problem in hand: Knoppix has a full Samba on board so you can use smbmount to mount a remote MS box's drives. Alternatively you could run smbd and use an smb.conf in the ramdisk (check the man page for the magic runes for this) if you want to share a drive that way.
Unlike xxcopy, dd does a sector by sector copy when you give it partitions rather than files to copy; so you don't get the 8.3 problem. And I'm assuming that a FAT based filesystem will survive being moved onto a larger partition...
Here's some stuff about using dd across a network, by using netcat (which is new to me):
http://www.rajeevnet.com/tips_hints/...s_cloning.html