Not seen or heard of this before.
Thread Starter
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 4,103
Likes: 5
From: Chabanais, France
Not seen or heard of this before.
Battery considerably expanded.
Found like this.
About nine years old Apple iPhone and used as an alarm clock by the bed. Yesterday morning the back was off to one side and the battery had expanded enough to cause internal workings to distort badly. No sign of heat at all. What would have caused this please and was I lucky it didn't catch fire as well?
Joined: Apr 1998
Posts: 4
Likes: 1
From: Mesopotamos
My Nokia 8210 battery did something similar (fortunately it only had a tiny battery). Being a sealed Lithium battery I could sense there was some pressure build up and before disposal I punched a nail through it to prove it was so.
I often recharge alkaline watch batteries before they get too flat (rendering them un-rechargeable), after several recharges they also begin to distort in shape meaning it's time they are despatched to the bin.
I often recharge alkaline watch batteries before they get too flat (rendering them un-rechargeable), after several recharges they also begin to distort in shape meaning it's time they are despatched to the bin.
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 611
Likes: 62
From: Down under
Off to the bin it goes.
Gurgle "disposing of old mobile phone batteries" for alternative disposal options.
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
From: Norfolk
Lithium ion battery packs are made up of thin sheets of active material seperated by thin sheets of insulator containing an electrolyte. As the battery ages and with repeated charge discharge cycles, tiny metal dendrites grow out from the surface of the active material. If the dendrites penetrate the insulation layer, a short circuit forms inside the battery. Depending on the thickness of the dendrite, sufficient heat can be generated to boil the electrolyte and the steam causes the battery pack to swell. In many cases, the pack swelling will break the short circuit and prevent further damage and risk of fire.
If the pack splits and the contents become exposed to air then any metallic lithium can spontaneously combust. The actual amount of lithium metal in phone and camera type battery packs is generally very limited, so any small fires are also usually limited, especially if the battery remains contained inside the equipment.
As battery packs age, they sometimes become hot during charging as small dendrites form and are burnt away. The battery capacity may also appear reduced. This is the first sign that the pack has reached the end of its life and should be replaced. Modern packs are good for between 300 and 500 complete charge cycles, or about 3 to 5 years of normal use.
Metal cased batteries tend not to swell when they overheat due to internal short circuits, but they are fitted with safety valves to release internal pressure. There may be some electrolyte leakage if sufficient internal damage occurs. Again, the primary sign of problems developing is that the battery becomes hot during charging.
All batteries become warm during charging cycles. The difference between a healthy battery and one at the end of its life is that the healthy battery will feel just warm to the touch. A failing battery will feel uncomfortably hot, probably around 60°C or possibly more. The internal temperature of the battery can be assumed to be rather hotter than any surface exposed to the air, so high temperatures can be indicative of the internal electrolyte reaching temperatures close to boiling at which point damage is definitely going to occur.
Lithium ion batteries have the advantage of very high energy density. A typical laptop battery pack can contain the same energy as a fully charged car battery in a package a fraction the size and weight of a lead acid cell. The energy density is so high and the weight savings are so great that they are now used in aircraft despite the extra safety systems and heavy containment boxes needed to house them.
If the pack splits and the contents become exposed to air then any metallic lithium can spontaneously combust. The actual amount of lithium metal in phone and camera type battery packs is generally very limited, so any small fires are also usually limited, especially if the battery remains contained inside the equipment.
As battery packs age, they sometimes become hot during charging as small dendrites form and are burnt away. The battery capacity may also appear reduced. This is the first sign that the pack has reached the end of its life and should be replaced. Modern packs are good for between 300 and 500 complete charge cycles, or about 3 to 5 years of normal use.
Metal cased batteries tend not to swell when they overheat due to internal short circuits, but they are fitted with safety valves to release internal pressure. There may be some electrolyte leakage if sufficient internal damage occurs. Again, the primary sign of problems developing is that the battery becomes hot during charging.
All batteries become warm during charging cycles. The difference between a healthy battery and one at the end of its life is that the healthy battery will feel just warm to the touch. A failing battery will feel uncomfortably hot, probably around 60°C or possibly more. The internal temperature of the battery can be assumed to be rather hotter than any surface exposed to the air, so high temperatures can be indicative of the internal electrolyte reaching temperatures close to boiling at which point damage is definitely going to occur.
Lithium ion batteries have the advantage of very high energy density. A typical laptop battery pack can contain the same energy as a fully charged car battery in a package a fraction the size and weight of a lead acid cell. The energy density is so high and the weight savings are so great that they are now used in aircraft despite the extra safety systems and heavy containment boxes needed to house them.
Thread Starter
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 4,103
Likes: 5
From: Chabanais, France
Thanks GOULI. Always good to know the reasons behind such things as batteries expanding in such a way. Will pay more attention when charging in future.
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 611
Likes: 62
From: Down under
This link has nothing to do with computers, but it does focus rather sharply on the thread of this topic. It is also has absolute relevence to flying so I offer it as a cautionary tale - a or a word to the wise. It's essential to treat these batteries the utmost respect.
https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications...n/ab-2018-124/
https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications...n/ab-2018-124/
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,003
Likes: 16
From: Here
Car Battery
40Ah
480Wh
5 years ago Notebook
PA5073U-1BRS Battery Toshiba Satellite U925T U920T PABAS267
38Wh
Current Laptop
TOSHIBA Satellite Pro R50-B Tecra A40 Tecra A50
2200mAh at 14.8V
33Wh
480 is not the same as 38, or even 33, last time I looked
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
From: Norfolk
jimjim1
My HP laptop battery pack is rated at 58 Watt hours with an output voltage of 12 volts, so perhaps more akin to a motorcycle battery in that particular case. The entire pack is less than the size of two king size cigarette packs laid end to end and weighs less than 500 grams. Current laptop batteries are deliberately limited in capacity so as to remain compliant with air transport regulations and to provide longer service life. Alternative extended use battery packs are available with far larger capacities. These cannot legally be transported on an aircraft. I believe the current limit to be less than 100 Watt hours for lithium chemistry batteries.
You are absolutely correct in stating that most laptop computer batteries store less energy than a car battery. The point is that for any given size, they are very energy dense and can represent a hazard if misused or abused - just the same as a car battery. The exaggeration was intended to reinforce the point that lithium batteries pack a considerable punch in an innocuous appearing case or device.
My HP laptop battery pack is rated at 58 Watt hours with an output voltage of 12 volts, so perhaps more akin to a motorcycle battery in that particular case. The entire pack is less than the size of two king size cigarette packs laid end to end and weighs less than 500 grams. Current laptop batteries are deliberately limited in capacity so as to remain compliant with air transport regulations and to provide longer service life. Alternative extended use battery packs are available with far larger capacities. These cannot legally be transported on an aircraft. I believe the current limit to be less than 100 Watt hours for lithium chemistry batteries.
You are absolutely correct in stating that most laptop computer batteries store less energy than a car battery. The point is that for any given size, they are very energy dense and can represent a hazard if misused or abused - just the same as a car battery. The exaggeration was intended to reinforce the point that lithium batteries pack a considerable punch in an innocuous appearing case or device.
