Bye Bye XP?
Mistrust in Management
I'm really enjoying this thread
I particularly enjoy the input from mixture. Is he running a bit rich?
Mixture will blow a gasket at this rate to be sure - calm down old son.
Regards
Exeng
Mixture will blow a gasket at this rate to be sure - calm down old son.
Regards
Exeng
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exeng,
Well, I guess I should probably compliment you on the wordplay there !
As I said on my last post, I've resorted to applying the "some people learn the hard way" motto to those here who have XP stubbornness.
Well, I guess I should probably compliment you on the wordplay there !
As I said on my last post, I've resorted to applying the "some people learn the hard way" motto to those here who have XP stubbornness.
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As I said on my last post, I've resorted to applying the "some people learn the hard way" motto to those here who have XP stubbornness.
I'm sure theres a way to work around that if there was the expertise that could configure things at and indepth level But frankly most IT guys at the first level and one removed just don't have what it takes.
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I know some guys who worked in IT at a major UK Company - they were installing a completely new system and it took forever - every weekend they took the system down, installed the new bits and brought it to life on Sunday evening only to hear around 11:00 am on Monday that yet another hitherto unknown, but largely used and financially significant, application wasn't working
there was stuff there that had been patched in from the mid 60's apparently that people were still happy (indeed insistent) they used for everyday work
scarey stuff
there was stuff there that had been patched in from the mid 60's apparently that people were still happy (indeed insistent) they used for everyday work
scarey stuff
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Originally Posted by mixture
And what sort of muppets do a production rollout without testing it first ?
Testing print functionality prior to a rollout seems to be a bit of a no-brainer in the scenario you propose !
Testing print functionality prior to a rollout seems to be a bit of a no-brainer in the scenario you propose !
There is thousands of bits of software to be tested, over tens of thousands of computers. A rollout of a new OS en masse across a large enterprise organisation is no simple task. Sometimes, things get overlooked. Sure, we could spend a couple of hundred million doing full system testing of everything, but interestingly enough sometimes you still miss things... Let me know when you are perfect.
BTW, its our software, not the clients and we have never tested it on win 7 as we have never had the requirement. Now the client wants to run it on Win 7, we have upgraded the software and fully tested on Win 7. This week it will be tested on win 8 and win 8.1, even though we have no need to do so just yet. Now I have not checked MSDN yet, but there is a rumour win 9 beta is due out in a couple of months, and I will probably also restest on that too. Happy?
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The Chinese don't appear to be hearing the Microsoft XP mantra... or are they?
Microsoft announces extended Windows XP support in China -- or has it? | Microsoft windows - InfoWorld
Caco
Microsoft announces extended Windows XP support in China -- or has it? | Microsoft windows - InfoWorld
Caco
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Browsing vendors in London this week, I was only offered WIN8 as a private user.
I asked - if I was a business user ? Oh, you can have WIN7. Do you need proof ? No.
And if it's for education purposes ? Oh, you get a discount. Do you need proof ? No.
I asked - if I was a business user ? Oh, you can have WIN7. Do you need proof ? No.
And if it's for education purposes ? Oh, you get a discount. Do you need proof ? No.
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Users refuse to chuck XP as Windows 8 uptake flattens - Computerworld
I suspect this is going to get quite amusing at some point.
I suspect this is going to get quite amusing at some point.
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Clearly you dont work in an enterprise IT environment
But I don't know the details of your project, so I think we'd best agree to disagree there..... I was merely commenting on based on the vague wording of your original post.
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Should I stay with Windows XP after April 8th?
So I understand that XP support will cease after April 8th, I am tempted to stick with it for a while as I am going to have to replace my ageing computer anyway but can't afford it just yet.
Presumably there would only be a big problem if they discovered a major security flaw after the support has stopped which left computers vulnerable.
Also, when I do upgrade, I understand that Windows 8 is basically Windows 7 with touch screen capability which I don't want/need, so would I be better sticking with Windows 7?
Thankyou for any thoughts/feedback
Wigglyamps
Presumably there would only be a big problem if they discovered a major security flaw after the support has stopped which left computers vulnerable.
Also, when I do upgrade, I understand that Windows 8 is basically Windows 7 with touch screen capability which I don't want/need, so would I be better sticking with Windows 7?
Thankyou for any thoughts/feedback
Wigglyamps
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Despite all the people who say you will die a horrible burning death and you computer will cause it if you dont upgrade, you will be fine. Not sure if the virus mobs will keep updating for XP, but if they do just make sure you stay up to date. You should make a conceded effort to upgrade why the time/money permits, as it makes it safer for you and prevents your computer being used as a method of attacking other servers.
Windows 8 is more or less the same as Windows 7. There is quite a few changes under the hood that the public does not see that makes it better, but for the average user it will make no difference. From your perspective, the big difference as you suggest is the user interface. For the layman, I would say get used to the new win 8 format, its better suited to those who are not technical. However if you are most comfortable with XP, then make sure you buy a computer with Windows 8.1 and get the shop to configure it so its like Windows XP.
Windows 8 is more or less the same as Windows 7. There is quite a few changes under the hood that the public does not see that makes it better, but for the average user it will make no difference. From your perspective, the big difference as you suggest is the user interface. For the layman, I would say get used to the new win 8 format, its better suited to those who are not technical. However if you are most comfortable with XP, then make sure you buy a computer with Windows 8.1 and get the shop to configure it so its like Windows XP.
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Boxcar
With all due respect with Mixture et al.
What really matters is what the user PC population of China and other parts of the world do.
The statistics are estimates of course, without the margins for error stated, but something like 29 % of all active Internet connected PC's in use are still using XP. A lot! hopefully using revision SP3, which in many ways was a new operating System.
Fixes will still be applied to XP if you are prepared to pay for them.
Some mitigation may be provided by running as a restricted user when accessing the internet, but unfortunately its the normal background processess that are the real threat.
Mixture, among others, has mentioned the API's ie Application Programming interfaces, where human created program code meets the application services provided by the computer operating system.
These families of "low level" programmer / machine interaction functions are by good reason, shared across various versions of Windows and siliarly within other operating systems. Vunerabilities discovered, (not a trivial task) and fixed in later versions of operating systems, can still be leveraged in un patched older versions still used on the internet, causing trouble in their wake.
A glaring example (a much simpller case) is covered elsewhere on the Forums where a user has had the potential hijacking of an email A/C to send spam. Not the users fault, but it still happens - I have been lucky, but a few years back i had the data on a HD destroyed interactively, Anti virus, Firewall and all on XP SP3. That's an old fashioned attack now but the methodology can be used for much greater harm.
The big problem for Microsoft in particular is the persistance in the tail end of the user base still using XP. 13-14 Years on
"It works OK for me - Why change" is the mantra chanted as a barb, in the tech press, but the reality for many users; is that the Computers used represented a significant cost of purchase and cannot be easily be replaced.
CAT III NDB
What really matters is what the user PC population of China and other parts of the world do.
The statistics are estimates of course, without the margins for error stated, but something like 29 % of all active Internet connected PC's in use are still using XP. A lot! hopefully using revision SP3, which in many ways was a new operating System.
Fixes will still be applied to XP if you are prepared to pay for them.
Some mitigation may be provided by running as a restricted user when accessing the internet, but unfortunately its the normal background processess that are the real threat.
Mixture, among others, has mentioned the API's ie Application Programming interfaces, where human created program code meets the application services provided by the computer operating system.
These families of "low level" programmer / machine interaction functions are by good reason, shared across various versions of Windows and siliarly within other operating systems. Vunerabilities discovered, (not a trivial task) and fixed in later versions of operating systems, can still be leveraged in un patched older versions still used on the internet, causing trouble in their wake.
A glaring example (a much simpller case) is covered elsewhere on the Forums where a user has had the potential hijacking of an email A/C to send spam. Not the users fault, but it still happens - I have been lucky, but a few years back i had the data on a HD destroyed interactively, Anti virus, Firewall and all on XP SP3. That's an old fashioned attack now but the methodology can be used for much greater harm.
The big problem for Microsoft in particular is the persistance in the tail end of the user base still using XP. 13-14 Years on
"It works OK for me - Why change" is the mantra chanted as a barb, in the tech press, but the reality for many users; is that the Computers used represented a significant cost of purchase and cannot be easily be replaced.
CAT III NDB
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Wiggly, check your PM !
My apologies to all here. During the period between my motherboard failing the week before last, and a new PC emerging this weekend, with Ubuntu on one drive, and the other drive holding The Operating System That Does Not Dare To Speak Its Name, I dug out my very first laptop, running WIN98, and posted a few times on PPRuNe using that. Hope nobody caught anything.
My apologies to all here. During the period between my motherboard failing the week before last, and a new PC emerging this weekend, with Ubuntu on one drive, and the other drive holding The Operating System That Does Not Dare To Speak Its Name, I dug out my very first laptop, running WIN98, and posted a few times on PPRuNe using that. Hope nobody caught anything.
Plastic PPRuNer
Most people (including me) don't like the tiled Win8x interface, finding it irritating and clumsy on a desktop.
If MS persist in making it obligatory for Win8 AND want to get folks off XP then why not offer a cheap upgrade to the appropriate version of Win7?
Or is that too simple (and unlucrative)?
Mac
PS: Classic Shell - Classic Shell - Start menu and other Windows enhancements - is free and solves many of Win8's interface problems but most Win8 grumblers seem to dumb to find it.
If MS persist in making it obligatory for Win8 AND want to get folks off XP then why not offer a cheap upgrade to the appropriate version of Win7?
Or is that too simple (and unlucrative)?
Mac
PS: Classic Shell - Classic Shell - Start menu and other Windows enhancements - is free and solves many of Win8's interface problems but most Win8 grumblers seem to dumb to find it.
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Mac
"Or is that too simple (and unlucrative)?"
A hole in one there - There are generations of users who prefer the earlier approach to application selection - Done to death elsewhere.
Change for the sake of profit.
OK with the changes under the hood and PS Older Drivers seem to work with on probs with 64 Bit Versions of 8.1 [So far] for me.
CATIII-NDB
A hole in one there - There are generations of users who prefer the earlier approach to application selection - Done to death elsewhere.
Change for the sake of profit.
OK with the changes under the hood and PS Older Drivers seem to work with on probs with 64 Bit Versions of 8.1 [So far] for me.
CATIII-NDB
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Am in same situation - XP working perfectly!
Buying Apple Mac this week!
Buying Apple Mac this week!
Most people (including me) don't like the tiled Win8x interface, finding it irritating and clumsy on a desktop.
If MS persist in making it obligatory for Win8 AND want to get folks off XP then why not offer a cheap upgrade to the appropriate version of Win7?
Or is that too simple (and unlucrative)?
Mac
PS: Classic Shell - Classic Shell - Start menu and other Windows enhancements - is free and solves many of Win8's interface problems but most Win8 grumblers seem to dumb to find it.
If MS persist in making it obligatory for Win8 AND want to get folks off XP then why not offer a cheap upgrade to the appropriate version of Win7?
Or is that too simple (and unlucrative)?
Mac
PS: Classic Shell - Classic Shell - Start menu and other Windows enhancements - is free and solves many of Win8's interface problems but most Win8 grumblers seem to dumb to find it.
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Seriously, its one of the most overrated, over hyped, over priced pieces of **** I have ever purchased. Dont waste your cash. I have more grief with this POS than any modern windows machine. If you want the pain, you are better of going down the linux path.
I have used all three. I would favour Windows or Mac over Linux any day for desktop computing, Linux is just not ready for prime time on the desktop.... fantastic as a server with console interface.... but desktop... no way !
There is nothing wrong with mac and is is certainly not a POS that gives you grief.... nor is it " overrated, over hyped, over priced" .... its one of the most solid, stable platforms I've used over the years. They are robust systems with decent components that will take a beating and given that OS X works on a BSD backend you are basically hoisting yourself by your own petard saying OS X is a POS because you are effectively saying your beloved open source community BSD is also a POS !
According to MS, the main userbase prefers the metro interface. In Win 8.1, they only reintroduced the old desktop to keep whingers like you and me happy...As a developer, I am forcing myself to use the metro interface as it looks like its going to be around for a while.
And most advertisements for laptops these day proudly offer W 8.1 with a touch screen interface as though it's some sort of big deal. Perhaps it is - I've yet to be seduced - despite having a few android tablets and phones in the family.
It's seems unlikely that there will be a return to former more familiar (mouse click) selection options. At present of course one can use either mouse or "stab" options (I think), but could it be that some point in the future, the move is made right way from mouse selection altogether?
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You have absolutley no idea what you are talking about and you obviously have inherent bias towards Windows and Linux.
I have used all three. I would favour Windows or Mac over Linux any day for desktop computing, Linux is just not ready for prime time on the desktop.... fantastic as a server with console interface.... but desktop... no way !
There is nothing wrong with mac and is is certainly not a POS that gives you grief.... nor is it " overrated, over hyped, over priced" .... its one of the most solid, stable platforms I've used over the years. They are robust systems with decent components that will take a beating and given that OS X works on a BSD backend you are basically hoisting yourself by your own petard saying OS X is a POS because you are effectively saying your beloved open source community BSD is also a POS !
I have used all three. I would favour Windows or Mac over Linux any day for desktop computing, Linux is just not ready for prime time on the desktop.... fantastic as a server with console interface.... but desktop... no way !
There is nothing wrong with mac and is is certainly not a POS that gives you grief.... nor is it " overrated, over hyped, over priced" .... its one of the most solid, stable platforms I've used over the years. They are robust systems with decent components that will take a beating and given that OS X works on a BSD backend you are basically hoisting yourself by your own petard saying OS X is a POS because you are effectively saying your beloved open source community BSD is also a POS !
IF you are going to buy a PC/notebook you can do mucher better value for money than Mac is what I am saying. In saying that, I make money from it, so I dont really care either way. I have more crashes on MAC than any other OS these days. And BTW, OSX does not work on a BSD backend, its bastardisation of many things of which one is BSD.
As I sit here typing this message on my MacBook, the fan is going flat out trying to cool the machine down. After while, it will get so hot that it will shut down a core and start running slow.
Yes, I've noticed that there has been a subtle swing to tiles in some form or another in a lot of internet sites.
And most advertisements for laptops these day proudly offer W 8.1 with a touch screen interface as though it's some sort of big deal. Perhaps it is - I've yet to be seduced - despite having a few android tablets and phones in the family.
It's seems unlikely that there will be a return to former more familiar (mouse click) selection options. At present of course one can use either mouse or "stab" options (I think), but could it be that some point in the future, the move is made right way from mouse selection altogether?
And most advertisements for laptops these day proudly offer W 8.1 with a touch screen interface as though it's some sort of big deal. Perhaps it is - I've yet to be seduced - despite having a few android tablets and phones in the family.
It's seems unlikely that there will be a return to former more familiar (mouse click) selection options. At present of course one can use either mouse or "stab" options (I think), but could it be that some point in the future, the move is made right way from mouse selection altogether?