Iplayer head scratch (Win7)

[BOAC]

Here's the story. I have a TV licence . I can watch BBC TV and freely record it to my DVD recorder. SO, I want to download and DVD a programme from BBC IPlayer. Down it comes, I choose wmv. It will not burn to DVD - DRM. SO, I root around in my XP 'ready box' for something to help. Nothing. I Google - I need to pay for a programme to remove the DRM.

This is not right! How do others do it?

PS It was an absolutely fascinating prog about Bubble science.

[mixture]

ahem cough....

This forum is NOT a place to enquire about circumvention of copyright (even MS products) - any such posts will rapidly be deleted and the culprits hung, drawn and quartered.

No comment. Go spend some more time with Mr Google.

[BOAC]

Had a nice time with Mr G yesterday, and got all sorts of ideas I could not make work.

Re 'ahem cough', read my first 3 sentences - I an not 'circumventing' anything. I hold a 'licence' to view BBC products.

[mixture]

I an not 'circumventing' anything.

Says the man who said "I need to pay for a programme to remove the DRM"

DRM is there for a reason. Probably due to the BBCs upstream agreements with the rights holders over electronic distribution of their content.

I'm not going to tell you what to ask Mr Google, because I don't know off the top of my head as circumventing DRM is not something I do. But put it this way, I'm sure its a popular question that no doubt many have offered "solutions" for, therefore it shouldn't be rocket science to find an answer.

Also, cut the license holder argument. The clue is in the word license. Just like Microsoft software, you don't own it, you license it .... the provider sets the terms.


Edit to add, as per the iPlayer terms and conditions published on the iPlayer website :

So that the BBC can meet its obligations to third parties who own rights in BBC Content, the BBC may embed digital rights management security in BBC Online Services or BBC Content and/or use other content-protection measures. You may not adjust or circumvent or try to adjust or circumvent these technical measures.

[BOAC]

You seem to have got awfully hot and huffy here, mixture. The 'Licence' applies to the BBC property - it costs me £145.50 a year, and in my opinion I should be able to do what I wish with the downloaded material for personal use, just as I can record it if I wish from the TV.

You will need to explain your logic - when I can burn the download to CD, transport it to a PC plugged into my TV and play it as many times as I wish to as many folk as I wish? All I started out to do was to burn it to DVD for my DVD player to make life easier. No sneaky mass-produced copies flogged on EBay...........

Oh - and if you read post #1 you will see I have not asked HOW to remove DRM. nor 'adjust or circumvent or try to adjust or circumvent' DRM, merely asked if others know how to achieve the aim - a DVD.

Anyone anything useful to add?

[vulcanised]

Have you checked to see if it's being repeated (usually are in short order), in which case you could record it off-air?

[mixture]

in my opinion I should be able to do what I wish

Yeah, and in my opinion I should be able to win on the lottery every time, drive down motorways at speeds of my choosing, visit the USA without having my fingerprints recorded and photograph taken etc. etc. etc.

The reason you can record off the TV and are yet subject to DRM has been pointed out to you above. Its not the big bad BBC you should be having a go at, its the people who license content to the BBC. I'm sure the BBC's legal advisors would much prefer it if they could license content without distribution restrictions.... but that's just not how real life works.

[BOAC]

Yes, vulcan - am checking, but at least I can let Mrs B see the prog on TV now.

[vulcanised]

It's being repeated tonight at 2200 on BBC4.

[BOAC]

Thanks - got it - now a chance to explain to Mrs B what is happening in the bath.......................

[Milo Minderbinder]

your TV licence enables you to watch TV. Live. Nothing else. It is NOT a licence to record for later use. It gives you no "rights" to any kind of content. Effectively the licence allows you to receive transmissions and watch them live, thats all.

[BOAC]

So - PVRs and DVD recorders are illegal? I trust you and mixture don't use them.

Edit:
TV Licensing office disagrees with you?
A TV Licence is a legal permission to install or use television receiving equipment (e.g. TVs, computers, mobile phones, games consoles, digital boxes and DVD/VHS recorders) to watch or record television programmes, as they are being shown on TV. This applies regardless of which television channels a person receives or how those channels are received. The licence fee is not a payment for BBC services (or any other television service), although licence fee revenue is used to fund the BBC.
The requirement to hold a TV Licence and to pay a fee for it is mandated by law under the Communications Act 2003 and Communications (Television Licensing) Regulations 2004 (as amended). It is an offence to watch or record television programmes as they are being shown on any channel and on any broadcast platform (terrestrial, satellite, cable and the internet) without a valid TV Licence.
Legislation on television licensing is available from the Office of Public Sector Information website. TV Licensing - Legislation and policy on our website outlines the most relevant legislative provisions.

[Milo Minderbinder]

"PVRs and DVD recorders are illegal?"
Unless the law has changed in the last few years, then technically yes. They are. However the BBC made a statement some years ago that they wouldn't raise copyright issues over reasonable levels of recording for home use.

[mixture]

PVRs and DVD recorders are illegal?

Come on BOAC, you're clutching at straws here.

You know very well, I'm sure, that PVRs and DVD recorders are the modern day VHS.

The Copyright, Designs and Patents Act permits the domestic recording of broadcasts for what is known as timeshifting.

However iPlayer is already a timeshifted service, and it is certainly not a broadcast (however, a TV license IS required if you want to use the simulcast feature of iPlayer).

[BOAC]

Did you two read the rest of post #12 or are you just ignoring it as it does not fit your ideas? How do you interpret the statements?

[mixture]

To be honest, I could throw a similar argument back at you in relation to your bizarre interpretation of what a license is and that it gives you no rights to the content.

How about we just let this thread die, you're obviously stuck in your ways and not really ever going to accept the realities of TV licensing.

[BOAC]

"Afore ye go" - the realities of TV licensing - link to official site please?

Here's mine
TV Licensing - FOI: Legal framework

[Gonzo]

Interesting debate.

BOAC, from my understanding, and as you said in post 12, the TV licence allows for:

A TV Licence is a legal permission to install or use television receiving equipment (e.g. TVs, computers, mobile phones, games consoles, digital boxes and DVD/VHS recorders) to watch or record television programmes, as they are being shown on TV.

So you can watch TV, or watch an iPlayer stream live concurrently with a TV broadcast, which is covered by the TV licence.

Downloading a program on demand from iPlayer is not covered by the TV licence. A TV licence is not required for this. However, this also means that you are subject to any licencing restrictions put on that particular content by the rights' holder.

Also, in the BBC Online Terms of Use, linked through from iPlayer.....

(d) You agree to use BBC Online Services and access, download, view and/or listen to BBC Content as supplied to you by the BBC and you may not assist anyone to, or attempt to, reverse engineer, decompile, disassemble, adapt, modify, copy, reproduce, lend, hire, rent, perform, sub-license, make available to the public, create derivative works from, broadcast, distribute, commercially exploit, transmit or otherwise use in any way BBC Online Services and/or BBC Content in whole or in part except to the extent permitted in these Terms of Use, any relevant Additional Terms and at law.

4.2 Digital Rights Management

So that the BBC can meet its obligations to third parties who own rights in BBC Content, the BBC may embed digital rights management security in BBC Online Services or BBC Content and/or use other content-protection measures. You may not adjust or circumvent or try to adjust or circumvent these technical measures.

IMHO the 'I pay the licence fee, therefore I should be able to do what I want with the BBC's content' doesn't stack up. Where is the line drawn? I purchased some Attenborough documentaries on DVD last year. Should the BBC have given them to me for free?

[BOAC]

Originally Posted by Gonzo

Where is the line drawn?

- a slightly irrational example, Gonzo? Had you recorded the programmes yourself, they would have been 'free' but you chose to purchase a commercial product. I don;t think you can expect the BBC to pay for the cost of recording and packaging said set (plus any copyright fees) and 'give' them to you?

I am aware of the 'terms of use' but they do not prevent anyone from expressing an opinion about them. The aim was for a reasonable discussion (what forum is for?) rather than the rant which has, as often, derived. I have always thought the logical solution would be to limit IPlayer use to licence holders.

This was my 'opinion':

"I should be able to do what I wish with the downloaded material for personal use, just as I can record it if I wish from the TV."

There is obviously a lot of ignorance of TV licensing regulations around.

[Gonzo]

Woah, ok BOAC. We're all friends here.

Yes, perhaps a slightly irrational example, but a valid one to use as a response. Where would you draw the line? I have purchased some BBC content from iTunes also, perhaps that's a more relevant example. No storage/packaging fees there.

You feel that the BBC charging for DVDs is fine. What about iTunes content? What about if they started charging for iPlayer on-demand content after a period of one week?

Perhaps the thread resulted from your original post, where you appeared to be asking for help to circumvent DRM and which would breach iPlayer's terms of use, without having to pay for the software that can achieve that.

Perhaps a more theoretical scenario might have provoked a more reasonable discussion, if that was your aim.

I agree, I do not think that non-licence payers should be able to access iPlayer, just as I think that licence payers who are temporarily outside of the UK should be able to access iPlayer content.

I also think that licencing and copyright laws are outdated, promote piracy and hopefully in the end something will give.