The Internet...
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The Internet...
..Who owns it? I'd always assumed (or heard) that no one really owns it. If that's the case then can I access the web directly from my PC without paying money to an ISP? Come to think of it what do ISPs actually do for their money?
So many questions and I don't know the answers.
thanks in advance of any replies.
Serpent
So many questions and I don't know the answers.
thanks in advance of any replies.
Serpent
More bang for your buck
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No-one owns it, for ISP functions try Internet service provider - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Psychophysiological entity
I suppose the issue is, could one be a self-provider? Somehow hook into a vast system having only purchased the hardware.
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Exeng
Actually I am being serious. I appreciate that the there is a cost with the physical connection to the web and of course I'd expect to pay for that through my line rental. The real question as alluded to by Rivets is one of whether it'd be possible to access the web without using an ISP? What benefits do we get for our cash by using an ISP? Genuine question I promise.
Serpent
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For many years I paid AOL via my credit card to provide my internet. No problems with them but due to my changing cards the payment stopped. I was sent several reminders but decided to ignore them. Three years on I still do not make a payment to anybody and still use AOL to both send and receive email.
Not sure if this has any relivance to the question, but it seems that I had been paying for something that was for free.
Not sure if this has any relivance to the question, but it seems that I had been paying for something that was for free.
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To bypass an ISP you would have to connect to an Internet Exchange Point. Connection would normally be by ethernet. It would also be prohibitively expensive as you would pay the same fee as an ISP does annually plus a setup fee. The fee is fixed as a usage based fee would be a disincentive for growth.
The hardware and software costs would also be high as you would need access to name services and you would also be responsible for onward routing of any packets destined for other users.
The hardware and software costs would also be high as you would need access to name services and you would also be responsible for onward routing of any packets destined for other users.
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cdtaylor_nats
Incorrect.
Unless you are a large tier-1 ISP that operates exclusivley via settlement free interconnection, you will always end up relying on interconnections to other networks (either transit or peering) in order to get your data where it needs to go.
The sorts of networks present of LINX etc. are also likely to laugh at you if you ask to peer with them there and are not going to be pushing more than a few Mb sustained.
I suggest you review your understanding of what the "internet" is and perhaps look up more advanced concepts such as BGP.
Yes, but not necessarily.
No, it is not.
10Mb CDR on 100Mb 95th burst transit typically less than £/$/EUR300 install and less than £/$/EUR100 per month total (less than 10 per Mb) for your CDR element. Increase your CDR and your cost per Mb comes down even more. Be willing to buy transit from networks lower down the food chain and your cost per Mb will also plummet more.
BIND | Internet Systems Consortium
OpenBGPD
Cost 0.
I rest my case. Do your homework next time.
I'm not saying there are no associated costs, because there are. However the "costs" you have come up with are simply non-existent, and might not necessarily be as high as you think they are depending on how you want to set things up. If you're only going to be setting up things for your own benefit rather than acting as transit provider then it can be cheap as chips because you can shave costs in all sorts of places.
There are costs in different areas that might relate to what the original poster is looking to do, but I'll leave that as an exercise to the reader to figure out.
To bypass an ISP you would have to connect to an Internet Exchange Point.
Unless you are a large tier-1 ISP that operates exclusivley via settlement free interconnection, you will always end up relying on interconnections to other networks (either transit or peering) in order to get your data where it needs to go.
The sorts of networks present of LINX etc. are also likely to laugh at you if you ask to peer with them there and are not going to be pushing more than a few Mb sustained.
I suggest you review your understanding of what the "internet" is and perhaps look up more advanced concepts such as BGP.
Connection would normally be by ethernet.
It would also be prohibitively expensive
10Mb CDR on 100Mb 95th burst transit typically less than £/$/EUR300 install and less than £/$/EUR100 per month total (less than 10 per Mb) for your CDR element. Increase your CDR and your cost per Mb comes down even more. Be willing to buy transit from networks lower down the food chain and your cost per Mb will also plummet more.
The hardware and software costs would also be high as you would need access to name services and you would also be responsible for onward routing of any packets destined for other users.
BIND | Internet Systems Consortium
OpenBGPD
Cost 0.
I rest my case. Do your homework next time.
I'm not saying there are no associated costs, because there are. However the "costs" you have come up with are simply non-existent, and might not necessarily be as high as you think they are depending on how you want to set things up. If you're only going to be setting up things for your own benefit rather than acting as transit provider then it can be cheap as chips because you can shave costs in all sorts of places.
There are costs in different areas that might relate to what the original poster is looking to do, but I'll leave that as an exercise to the reader to figure out.
Last edited by mixture; 26th Sep 2010 at 10:46.
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10Mb CDR on 100Mb 95th burst transit typically less than £/$/EUR300 install and less than £/$/EUR100 per month total (less than 10 per Mb) for your CDR element. Increase your CDR and your cost per Mb comes down even more. Be willing to buy transit from networks lower down the food chain and your cost per Mb will also plummet more.
What benefits do we get for our cash by using an ISP?
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I pay my provider £7.50 a month for broadband, a bit less than £300 to install or £100 per month to run.
(a) Don't compare Apples and Oranges. Seriously, it's like comparing a light twin fixed wing trainer to a Boeing 777.
(b)
a bit less than £300 to install or £100 per month to run.
Is far from being
prohibitively expensive
ridiculously expensive
Anyway... point being, it's a waste of time for your average PPRuNer to even consider such a setup as the technical expertise is lacking for a start, and as I hinted, there are other costs beyond the 300+100.... not huge, but need to be factored in... and so yes, for your average Joe Bloggs, some cheap rubbish contented, rate limited, ADSL deal is probably the way to go, and as such I don't intend to reply again to this thread.
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Latest joyous plan of HM Government is to levy a £20 a year 'rateable value' charge on all broadband connections that do not use the BT network. This on top of the dark fibre tax for non-BT cablers which is 40 x what BT pay. They really are helping sort out the digital divide, are they not
Even one of their own MPs (Rory Stewart) was quoted as saying they would probably miss the new (slipped 2012) 2015 target and that 'Rural people stood a better chance of having access to faster next-generation broadband if they did it themselves.' A stunning endorsement of DCOMS efforts. Bravo Mr Cameron.
Even one of their own MPs (Rory Stewart) was quoted as saying they would probably miss the new (slipped 2012) 2015 target and that 'Rural people stood a better chance of having access to faster next-generation broadband if they did it themselves.' A stunning endorsement of DCOMS efforts. Bravo Mr Cameron.
