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Rubbish. IBM do not make the source code of their OS's for example z/OS available to anybody.
To be honest its not a server if it has a keyboard and monitor attached.
For the majority of IT environments,having console level keyboard, mouse and monitor access to your server at all times is a must.
Anthony, Linux may not be suitable for your desktop but it's been working nicely for me for 12 years. Horses for courses. I'm interested why you think a clueless Ubuntu user is any worse off than a clueless Windows user? It's easy enough for them get in above their head in either case.
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Even the commercial flavours of linux don't really cut the mustard at high loads.
As soon as you start going over about 0.7 your log files start filling up and its starts chuntering. You can get away with running what would be high work loads on a MS machine at very low loads on a linux box makes the clueless think its a straight swap and they are happy. Then they stick a thin frontend DB application on it and the whole thing goes to rat poo.
Linux as a desktop I think is cracking, it really doesn't get anyware near the grade as say a solaris enterprise server which it is mean't to be replacing as a server. If you want a fly websever setup it can manage. Anything serious it falls over.
Actually I think Linux does protect the user better than windows does. You can run it in dafty mode and the OS won't let you compromise the OS. The simple fact that it default installs to running a normal user account removes 80% of the potential for murdering it. Add in packages and respo's and auto updates the potential for disaster is significantly less.
And mixture my experence is the opersite to yours. The folk who have access to the hardware is extremely limited, far more so than root access. And its not uncommon to have a hardware 24h standby as well as a sys admin standby. Some of the guru's I have worked with I wouldn't trust to rewire a plug never mind pull a machine out of the rack and hot swap a processor or network card. But get them writing scripts and doing fancy poo with NIS+ etc and they leave me in there wake.
As soon as you start going over about 0.7 your log files start filling up and its starts chuntering. You can get away with running what would be high work loads on a MS machine at very low loads on a linux box makes the clueless think its a straight swap and they are happy. Then they stick a thin frontend DB application on it and the whole thing goes to rat poo.
Linux as a desktop I think is cracking, it really doesn't get anyware near the grade as say a solaris enterprise server which it is mean't to be replacing as a server. If you want a fly websever setup it can manage. Anything serious it falls over.
Actually I think Linux does protect the user better than windows does. You can run it in dafty mode and the OS won't let you compromise the OS. The simple fact that it default installs to running a normal user account removes 80% of the potential for murdering it. Add in packages and respo's and auto updates the potential for disaster is significantly less.
And mixture my experence is the opersite to yours. The folk who have access to the hardware is extremely limited, far more so than root access. And its not uncommon to have a hardware 24h standby as well as a sys admin standby. Some of the guru's I have worked with I wouldn't trust to rewire a plug never mind pull a machine out of the rack and hot swap a processor or network card. But get them writing scripts and doing fancy poo with NIS+ etc and they leave me in there wake.
Last edited by mad_jock; 3rd Mar 2011 at 09:15.
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And mixture my experence is the opersite to yours.
However, let me give you a concrete example:
Say I'm doing a PXE install of Windows 2008 (no, I'm not going to get into OS wars here, both Linux and Windows have their place) onto a rack full of HP Proliant DL380s.
One of them is bluescreening.
The ability to (a) see the bluescceen, (b) do a hard power cycle (c) PXE boot some diagnostic tools and play with BIOS settings ...... all from hundreds of miles away .... is priceless and enables me to decide what replacement parts need to be sent to site.
Or if you want an example from the non-windows world..... remote upgrades of OpenBSD boxes, booting into single user mode on Linux, Firmware upgrades etc. etc.
Even the commercial flavours of linux don't really cut the mustard at high loads.
If you want a fly websever setup it can manage. Anything serious it falls over.
Want more examples ? How about ITV's F1 website... that uses a linux platform for load balancing....
4000 concurrent connections to a video rich site. CPU utilisation 1% memory utilisation 500Mb of the 8GB available. Pair of HP DL360 G5 8GB RAM, 1Gb NICs (in active passive config).
Another application (same hardware spec):
1.2 Million transactions per minute
72 million transactions per hour (including in excess of 350 SSL terminations per second) sustained 750Mbps.
Last edited by mixture; 3rd Mar 2011 at 10:16.
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Anthony, Linux may not be suitable for your desktop but it's been working nicely for me for 12 years. Horses for courses. I'm interested why you think a clueless Ubuntu user is any worse off than a clueless Windows user? It's easy enough for them get in above their head in either case.
TCO.
If you have an office, and you want to employ office workers, and part of the requirement is that they're competent on the OS you deploy.....you try finding an office full of workers that have SEEN a Linux desktop, let alone used one.
If you then want to support said office, you need a support weenie. Try finding a range of those that support Linux (and not just one, several so you have a choice of them should you need to let one go).
Obviously there are specific applications for which a Linux desktop is a good idea (code monkeys, designers, etc), but for the majority of mainstream application support, Linux is a poor choice.
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Sorry mixture we are on about the same thing
The stuff I used was KVM and yes I fully agree thats the way forward. My point was that the admin shouldn't have to have his bum in the server room so multiple screens and god forbid someone actually working on them is a no no.
Bar having to get a screw driver out to fix something you should never be in the room.
And for the folk that don't know what we are on about.
Specialist suppliers of IP solutions, including KVM over IP and remote server monitoring. Call us now 01202 872771
Got a bit fancier since I worked with them but the principle is still the same.
The stuff I used was KVM and yes I fully agree thats the way forward. My point was that the admin shouldn't have to have his bum in the server room so multiple screens and god forbid someone actually working on them is a no no.
Bar having to get a screw driver out to fix something you should never be in the room.
And for the folk that don't know what we are on about.
Specialist suppliers of IP solutions, including KVM over IP and remote server monitoring. Call us now 01202 872771
Got a bit fancier since I worked with them but the principle is still the same.
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Sorry mixture we are on about the same thing
Mike, in that case the next version of Windows won't be suitable for the desktop either 
In most work environments the systems are so locked down that OS competency is meaningless because you can't do anything other than use the apps. And how is using a GUI based app in Windows vastly different to using one in Linux? You point, you click, you type, you save.
Anthony was flatly saying Linux wasn't suitable for use as a desktop system, which is plain wrong. Deployment in specific situations is a different matter.
In most work environments the systems are so locked down that OS competency is meaningless because you can't do anything other than use the apps. And how is using a GUI based app in Windows vastly different to using one in Linux? You point, you click, you type, you save.
Anthony was flatly saying Linux wasn't suitable for use as a desktop system, which is plain wrong. Deployment in specific situations is a different matter.
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And to be honest letting loose some users on apps is really counter productive to generating profit.
One particular witch I worked out that we could employ an additional 2 office grunts if we didn't have to have a floor walker visit her 6 times a day.
One particular witch I worked out that we could employ an additional 2 office grunts if we didn't have to have a floor walker visit her 6 times a day.
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And hence it was fast as hell and used next to no resources.
I'm interested why you think a clueless Ubuntu user is any worse off than a clueless Windows user? It's easy enough for them get in above their head in either case.
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That comes across as a very bigoted view.
The reality is that, in 99.999% of cases, Windows is indeed the right tool for the job, irrespective of any visceral dislike that some people may feel for the operating system or its vendor.
Anthony, you seem to be out there by several orders of magnitude as well. Becoming a bit of a habit when you're discussing Linux. Anyone would think you really don't like it, in a rather visceral manner. I'd call it bigoted.
Not everyone shares your objectives.
Not everyone shares your objectives.
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Anthony, you seem to be out there by several orders of magnitude as well.
Not everyone shares your objectives.
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the three sites I have done for small airlines since I was working full time in IT have all been Linux desktops.
Its saves a bloody fortune on licensing and if you ever get a visit for software they just turn round and walk out the door when they find out what you are using.
The users I must admit hate it with a passion mainly because they can't screw around with it and its not windows and the burds have issues with not having office and using openoffice instead. But the boss quite quickly likes it after zero down time and no money for licenses going out. Its a hellva lot more stable network to run without needing all the back office staff that MS requires. once its set up 30 mins a week does for the house work. I just had a sudo script for creating users that HR used if they had a new start. 30sec after walking in the door everything was good to go from email through to FTL's.
Its saves a bloody fortune on licensing and if you ever get a visit for software they just turn round and walk out the door when they find out what you are using.
The users I must admit hate it with a passion mainly because they can't screw around with it and its not windows and the burds have issues with not having office and using openoffice instead. But the boss quite quickly likes it after zero down time and no money for licenses going out. Its a hellva lot more stable network to run without needing all the back office staff that MS requires. once its set up 30 mins a week does for the house work. I just had a sudo script for creating users that HR used if they had a new start. 30sec after walking in the door everything was good to go from email through to FTL's.
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"When we started the company in Ireland, we got a guy in to do the whole IT for us. He stuck in Linux desktops and Open Office and said 'it'd be just the same'. It's a pile of ****. It won't even run my laptop properly. I just want something that's normal and works".
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Open Office and said 'it'd be just the same
I've seen IT managers sucking up to CFOs by saying they will deploy OpenOffice for all new recruits and save $$$ ..... all well and good for the secretaries and general office dogsbodies ..... but when you start recruting for a new trading desk, it suddenly dawns on you that Open Office is rubbish at more advanced stuff such as macros etc.... the traders then proceed to eat the IT department for breakfast when they loose deals.
Choose the right tool for the job. A proper IT manager should put licensing costs as a secondary concern behind the consideration as to whether or not the software is actually suitable for its intended purpose.
Just because you might look at Open Office through rose tinted glasses, doesn't mean everybody is shortsighted and needs glasses too.
Plastic PPRuNer
"If you are heavy into extensive VBA macros......"
Indeed. But the fact of the matter is that 99% of the people who use an office suite are not and Open/LibreOffice works just fine. Our seccys adapted within a couple of days.
A mainstream Linux distro is now easy to install, easy to configure, easy to administer, very stable and considerably more secure than anything but the most carefully locked down Windows (which 99.99% are not).
The venom displayed in this thread is odd.
There is absolutely no reason why (apart from MS's widely documented anti-competitive practices) why the world should be tied to Microsoft's OS and apps for ever and ever.
Mac
Indeed. But the fact of the matter is that 99% of the people who use an office suite are not and Open/LibreOffice works just fine. Our seccys adapted within a couple of days.
A mainstream Linux distro is now easy to install, easy to configure, easy to administer, very stable and considerably more secure than anything but the most carefully locked down Windows (which 99.99% are not).
The venom displayed in this thread is odd.
There is absolutely no reason why (apart from MS's widely documented anti-competitive practices) why the world should be tied to Microsoft's OS and apps for ever and ever.
Mac