Laptops; battery or mains?
Just Binos
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Laptops; battery or mains?
I've always operated my laptop on mains power at home under the assumption it would prolong battery life. While shopping for laptops for a friend yesterday I was advised by a computer shop owner this was totally incorrect, and that the lithium ion battery should be used to its maximum extent, only recharging when down to the last few percent. I missed the subtle points of the explanation but I think it was rather similar to the dreaded nicad memory problems of years ago. I thought that had long been laid to rest.
The next shop, where we finally purchased, was a multi-appliance centre who specialise in selling technology to those who know nothing, and the saleswoman said exactly the opposite. I know whose word I would take, but I'm interested in further opinions from the real experts, so naturally I came here!
The next shop, where we finally purchased, was a multi-appliance centre who specialise in selling technology to those who know nothing, and the saleswoman said exactly the opposite. I know whose word I would take, but I'm interested in further opinions from the real experts, so naturally I came here!
Psychophysiological entity
I'm not an expert, but I was told that there is a finite number of cycles - either allowed, or by natural decay. Certainly, there was quite a bit of electronics in my old Vaio battery.
I have complained to Sony about the speed at which my new Vaio discharges when not in use. I also mentioned it didn't do it if the battery was removed. They sent me a new battery. Doh
(about 4 days to become useless.)
Since something the price of an ink cartridge can be chipped to tell the system what's going on, I'm pretty sure a battery will be.
A pal of mine removes his battery when at home...which is most of the time. I've said what I thought of that, not least of all the loss of a Backup PS.
I have complained to Sony about the speed at which my new Vaio discharges when not in use. I also mentioned it didn't do it if the battery was removed. They sent me a new battery. Doh
(about 4 days to become useless.)
Since something the price of an ink cartridge can be chipped to tell the system what's going on, I'm pretty sure a battery will be.
A pal of mine removes his battery when at home...which is most of the time. I've said what I thought of that, not least of all the loss of a Backup PS.
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I run on mains most of the time, and regard the battery as a lifed item. Its battery is down to half its original life after 4 years. So the battery is performing better than I expected it would. I bought a second battery with the original purchase on the assumption that, 3 years down the line, replacements would be hard to find.
A battery is good for around 500 full charge cycles. If you run on mains all the time, perhaps some people could argue that's not good for the battery's total number of charge cycles, but you're not using those cycles up at anything like the rate of running on battery alone.
Re deep discharging batteries, Li-Ion don't really suffer from memory effect, but they do age and need careful charging. The chips in most battery packs that provide monitoring and charge control also protect against any methods of "deep discharging" the cells.
So as I said, my approach is to use the machine in a manner most convenient to me, and to have a second battery in the house ready for the demise of the first one.
A battery is good for around 500 full charge cycles. If you run on mains all the time, perhaps some people could argue that's not good for the battery's total number of charge cycles, but you're not using those cycles up at anything like the rate of running on battery alone.
Re deep discharging batteries, Li-Ion don't really suffer from memory effect, but they do age and need careful charging. The chips in most battery packs that provide monitoring and charge control also protect against any methods of "deep discharging" the cells.
So as I said, my approach is to use the machine in a manner most convenient to me, and to have a second battery in the house ready for the demise of the first one.
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Batteries are made to be used, so use them.
Just like couch potatoes, batteries need exercise. The chemicals in Lithium-Ion batteries respond best to regular recharging. So if you have a laptop, don’t keep it plugged in all the time; go ahead and let it drain to about 40 or 50 percent of capacity, and then recharge your computer.
The life of a Lithium-Ion battery can be measured in charge cycles. A charge cycle occurs when 100% of a battery’s capacity is used. Let’s say you use 50% of your laptop’s battery one day, charge it overnight, and then you use 50% of the battery again the next day. Even after charging it back up again, you’ll have only had one charge cycle occur. Most laptop batteries are rated for a useful life of at least 300-500 charge cycles, but high-quality, properly maintained batteries can retain up to 80% of their original life, even after 300 cycles.
Just like couch potatoes, batteries need exercise. The chemicals in Lithium-Ion batteries respond best to regular recharging. So if you have a laptop, don’t keep it plugged in all the time; go ahead and let it drain to about 40 or 50 percent of capacity, and then recharge your computer.
The life of a Lithium-Ion battery can be measured in charge cycles. A charge cycle occurs when 100% of a battery’s capacity is used. Let’s say you use 50% of your laptop’s battery one day, charge it overnight, and then you use 50% of the battery again the next day. Even after charging it back up again, you’ll have only had one charge cycle occur. Most laptop batteries are rated for a useful life of at least 300-500 charge cycles, but high-quality, properly maintained batteries can retain up to 80% of their original life, even after 300 cycles.
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I have an HP Pavillion zv5000, HP recommend charging the battery to full then removing it and use the laptop on mains. When you go mobile use the battery and only recharge it when it gets to 10% or less. Works well for me, same battery for 5 years now and no problems thus far.
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I've read lots of opinions on this topic, mostly contradictory.
I just use the machine as I want, on mains most of the time, on battery if out and about. Based on the last 5 years or so, modern Li-Ion and NiMH batteries seem to have a "shelf life" of 2 - 4 years. Longer if you're lucky.
Unless you need the spare capacity, don't buy a second one when the laptop is new. They'll then both die of old age around the same time. I was that buyer...
I just use the machine as I want, on mains most of the time, on battery if out and about. Based on the last 5 years or so, modern Li-Ion and NiMH batteries seem to have a "shelf life" of 2 - 4 years. Longer if you're lucky.
Unless you need the spare capacity, don't buy a second one when the laptop is new. They'll then both die of old age around the same time. I was that buyer...
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I've recently had to purchase a new battery for my laptop as it was down to less than 10 mins of life but after 4 years good use. I always tried to keep a mixture of mains and battery as its used on the road frequently. Booklet with new battery stated that it should be removed if connecting laptop to mains for long periods. Great but you can't use standby. I always thought that charging and discharging to the full extent was best but it seems somewhere between the 2 is optimal. There is no definitive answer and varies by manufacturer. Batteries do have a lifespan but not only is it related to charge and discharge cycles but the temperature they are kept at. Best advice is to stick with the manufacturers guidelines within reason for your needs without going to extremes.
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As my Toshiba only gives me an hour on battery at best I don't tend to use it.
I Use the mains with the battery disconnected. Should I ever need to be totally mobile I'll buy something that has a longer cycle.
That reminds me...I must put the battery back in for a top up, just in case!
I Use the mains with the battery disconnected. Should I ever need to be totally mobile I'll buy something that has a longer cycle.
That reminds me...I must put the battery back in for a top up, just in case!
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I Use the mains with the battery disconnected
The recommendation about "full charge, full discharge" is really based on the old Nickel Cadmium (NiCd) batteries, which could develop a "memory effect" and apparently reduced capacity if you didn't follow that advice. I have a rechargeable electric shaver with this problem: when the battery drops to about 80%, there's a sudden voltage drop, and the shaver thinks the battery is flat. If I put it in the charger for 1 second, the "flat" flag is reset and I can use it for weeks more.
The Lithium Ion batteries in laptops etc are different. They can be permanently damaged if they undergo a deep discharge, so the charging circuits in e.g, laptops do not allow that. Heat is a major factor in the life of a Li-Ion battery: they all degrade over time, more so if used in hot conditions, such as in a laptop that is always plugged in. That's why you ought to remove the battery if you always use a laptop on AC. You can even put the battery in the fridge.
The Lithium Ion batteries in laptops etc are different. They can be permanently damaged if they undergo a deep discharge, so the charging circuits in e.g, laptops do not allow that. Heat is a major factor in the life of a Li-Ion battery: they all degrade over time, more so if used in hot conditions, such as in a laptop that is always plugged in. That's why you ought to remove the battery if you always use a laptop on AC. You can even put the battery in the fridge.
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I recall going to pc world & asking if they had a gpu connecting any other way than pci. The guy almost snorted at me & said like what??
Er, Agp, Pci-e? They really don't know very much at all about computers in there. Flat screen tellys, now that's a different matter...
Er, Agp, Pci-e? They really don't know very much at all about computers in there. Flat screen tellys, now that's a different matter...
Spectacularly useless at pc world.
I agree with the negative comments about pc world in the UK. They've all just been on customer training courses, so if you get within 10 feet of them they'll grimace at you (they think that is smiling).
However, ask them a question and they will either lie, or admit that they do not know. (I have real evidence about the lying, so I'm happy to put it in print). Each store has 1 or 2 people who know about pc's, but whenever I go in they cannot be found.
However, ask them a question and they will either lie, or admit that they do not know. (I have real evidence about the lying, so I'm happy to put it in print). Each store has 1 or 2 people who know about pc's, but whenever I go in they cannot be found.
Spoon PPRuNerist & Mad Inistrator
I agree with the negative comments about pc world in the UK
Those are just the ones I remember.
* You can tell how long ago it was when I determined that they were clueless. I haven't been back.
Anybody want to convince me that things have improved in the last 10 years?
Anyone? Anyone? Anyone? Anyone?
SD
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Lithium Ion batteries which have been used for long periods in laptops plugged into the mains, and hence which haven't been charged cycled in a while, can appear to have died even when they're still good.
The 'fuel gauge' electronics in the battery can get out of synch with the actual battery state to such an extent that within minutes of pulling the mains lead you have a battery low warning. This tends to be followed by the machine doing whatever it's set up to do (hibernate or shut down) on the shortly following critical battery alarm.
By removing all actions on low and critical battery alarms in the power properties panel, you can allow the laptop to run the battery to a genuine state of discharge. Then recharge, at which point chemical and electronically indicated states often fall more or less back into line.
It's well worth a try before you write off an apparently dead battery. Sometimes more than one cycle is needed.
The 'fuel gauge' electronics in the battery can get out of synch with the actual battery state to such an extent that within minutes of pulling the mains lead you have a battery low warning. This tends to be followed by the machine doing whatever it's set up to do (hibernate or shut down) on the shortly following critical battery alarm.
By removing all actions on low and critical battery alarms in the power properties panel, you can allow the laptop to run the battery to a genuine state of discharge. Then recharge, at which point chemical and electronically indicated states often fall more or less back into line.
It's well worth a try before you write off an apparently dead battery. Sometimes more than one cycle is needed.
I have an old but serviceable laptop, but the battery died last year after spending a couple of months unused.
Now the battery will not charge at all under any circumstances - the battery charge light blinks on & off, but never stays on to indicate that charging is taking place (and it isn't).
I am simply wondering whether putting in a new battery will cure the problem, or if it is actually a problem with the laptop itself. It's a Compaq EVO N610, btw.
If anyone has any knowledge on this I'd appreciate hearing it before I shell out £45 on a new battery, only to find it's the PC!
FBW
Now the battery will not charge at all under any circumstances - the battery charge light blinks on & off, but never stays on to indicate that charging is taking place (and it isn't).
I am simply wondering whether putting in a new battery will cure the problem, or if it is actually a problem with the laptop itself. It's a Compaq EVO N610, btw.
If anyone has any knowledge on this I'd appreciate hearing it before I shell out £45 on a new battery, only to find it's the PC!
FBW
