Help! Before I throw the damn computer out the window...
Joined: Apr 2001
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From: Chichester, UK
[quote]
If you can find a point of purchase with real support integrity.
<hr></blockquote>
They certainly exist, but the majority of home users will go elsewhere. Good support costs, and given the choice of two systems costing the same most people will pick the one with a better specification rather than the one with better support. Can't have both.
Buying on specification is fine if you're skilled enough to deal with problems yourself (which I can) - and more importantly if you have the time to do it (which I don't). Most people aren't able to fix their own problems, of course, but would still prefer to pay for a faster CPU they almost certainly don't need (2GHz vs. 1.6GHz - how many people can really tell the difference?? Some, sure, but not many) rather than the support they almost certainly do....
<img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
If you can find a point of purchase with real support integrity.
<hr></blockquote>
They certainly exist, but the majority of home users will go elsewhere. Good support costs, and given the choice of two systems costing the same most people will pick the one with a better specification rather than the one with better support. Can't have both.
Buying on specification is fine if you're skilled enough to deal with problems yourself (which I can) - and more importantly if you have the time to do it (which I don't). Most people aren't able to fix their own problems, of course, but would still prefer to pay for a faster CPU they almost certainly don't need (2GHz vs. 1.6GHz - how many people can really tell the difference?? Some, sure, but not many) rather than the support they almost certainly do....
<img src="rolleyes.gif" border="0">
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From: Suffolk UK
Well, new case and power supply now enclose and feed my system and.... I still have the random freezing problem, although the unprompted hard reset problem has gone.. .All the suggestions you've come up with so far have been carefully tried and eliminated other than changing the motherboard and/or CPU - and the diagnostics I've tried can't identify any problems there.. .Any other thoughts?
PS: I've disabled all the junk in the systray - no difference.
[ 21 January 2002: Message edited by: Scroggs ]</p>
PS: I've disabled all the junk in the systray - no difference.
[ 21 January 2002: Message edited by: Scroggs ]</p>
Joined: Apr 2001
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From: Chichester, UK
Scroggs
Might me a long shot, but there has just been some news about an Athlon bug.e.g.
<a href="http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/3/23749.html" target="_blank">http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/3/23749.html</a>
<a href="http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2002-01-21-001-20-NW-KN" target="_blank">http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2002-01-21-001-20-NW-KN</a>
Symptoms involve random lockups when using AGP - sound familiar?
[quote]. .Here are the details. As you may know, x86 systems have traditionally managed memory using 4K pages. However, with the introduction of the Pentium processor, Intel added a new feature called extended paging, which allows 4Mb pages to be used instead.
<snipped>
Many Athlon and Duron CPUs experience memory corruption when extended paging is used in conjunction with AGP. . .<hr></blockquote>
It is mainly reported as affecting Linux users, but that is because a Windows fix already exits - however, it is a CPU bug rather than a bug in an OS.
From The Register:. . [quote]. .AMD issued a patch for Windows users in Fall 2000. .<hr></blockquote>
Are you patched?
Alternatively, if you can, try swapping in a PCI graphics card and see if that helps - the problem occurs only with AGP.
All the best...
Might me a long shot, but there has just been some news about an Athlon bug.e.g.
<a href="http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/3/23749.html" target="_blank">http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/3/23749.html</a>
<a href="http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2002-01-21-001-20-NW-KN" target="_blank">http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2002-01-21-001-20-NW-KN</a>
Symptoms involve random lockups when using AGP - sound familiar?
[quote]. .Here are the details. As you may know, x86 systems have traditionally managed memory using 4K pages. However, with the introduction of the Pentium processor, Intel added a new feature called extended paging, which allows 4Mb pages to be used instead.
<snipped>
Many Athlon and Duron CPUs experience memory corruption when extended paging is used in conjunction with AGP. . .<hr></blockquote>
It is mainly reported as affecting Linux users, but that is because a Windows fix already exits - however, it is a CPU bug rather than a bug in an OS.
From The Register:. . [quote]. .AMD issued a patch for Windows users in Fall 2000. .<hr></blockquote>
Are you patched?
Alternatively, if you can, try swapping in a PCI graphics card and see if that helps - the problem occurs only with AGP.
All the best...
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From: Suffolk UK
Evo,. .thanks for that. I'll try a PCI graphics card (I have an old Matrox G100 around somewhere). The CPU was made in about July 2001 (just before the Athlon XP came on line), so hopefully that bug shouldn't be present - but I may well ask AMD for their thoughts.. .I've heard elsewhere that the VIA/Athlon T'bird/Win98SE combination is beset with problems, so I may try Win XP to see if things improve.
Joined: Oct 2001
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From: farrrr east
Several colleges had Athlon machines and had problems of freezing.. .The first located a news group and found a very long list of people with the same motherboard and the same problems, (confirmed today an ABIT KT7A) board replaced, function checked satis.. .The second returned it to the point of sale and brought a P4 machine.. .I, on the other hand am more than happy with my home built Athlon.
This may be of some help:-http://www.viahardware.com/faq/kt7/faqinstability.html#Why does my KT7 freeze every 5 seconds?
[ 29 January 2002: Message edited by: All That Glitters ]</p>
This may be of some help:-http://www.viahardware.com/faq/kt7/faqinstability.html#Why does my KT7 freeze every 5 seconds?
[ 29 January 2002: Message edited by: All That Glitters ]</p>
Avoid imitations
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From: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Tim,
I had similar problems about 4 yrs ago, when I built a new ATX system with an AMD CPU (the system I am still using).
It turned out to be a combination of a poorly performing power supply and a faulty CPU.
I sorted the power supply quite quickly but the faulty CPU nearly drove me mad and cost a lot of money as I had replaced nearly everything else until I found it. I finally exchanged it for a new Pentium and the problem was solved immediately.
I suggest you clock down your CPU using the BIOS or board jumpers to see if it reduces the number of crashes and freezes. If it does, it's a good sign that the CPU is bad.
Good luck - always glad to help an old BFTS and UAS mucker! <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
I had similar problems about 4 yrs ago, when I built a new ATX system with an AMD CPU (the system I am still using).
It turned out to be a combination of a poorly performing power supply and a faulty CPU.
I sorted the power supply quite quickly but the faulty CPU nearly drove me mad and cost a lot of money as I had replaced nearly everything else until I found it. I finally exchanged it for a new Pentium and the problem was solved immediately.
I suggest you clock down your CPU using the BIOS or board jumpers to see if it reduces the number of crashes and freezes. If it does, it's a good sign that the CPU is bad.
Good luck - always glad to help an old BFTS and UAS mucker! <img src="wink.gif" border="0">
Joined: Oct 2001
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From: farrrr east
Also another thought, do you have on the m/board cd, a programme for looking at the temp of the cpu while it's running. With a previous machine, 2 years ago, I had many hours of frustration with a simular lockup, rebooting system, only to find the power supply fan was insufficient to cool the machine, (the top of the case was almost untouchable), only recirculating the warm air, case fan installed, functioned satis.
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From: Suffolk UK
Shyto,. .replaced the power supply, and I've tried under-clocking at 900Mhz. No difference! PS: who dat den?. .AtG:. .I mentioned my CPU and system temps in an earlier post - they're fine, as you'll see if you check back. Thanks for the thought, though.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
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From: Peripatetic
Another possibility is faulty RAM.
If you have 2 chips pull each in turn and see if the problem goes away. Replacing it would be cheap. 256Mb is about £30.
If you have 2 chips pull each in turn and see if the problem goes away. Replacing it would be cheap. 256Mb is about £30.
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From: midcoast US
ignore this post, just experimenting........... . <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> . . <img src="wink.gif" border="0"> . .{@). .:<. .:>. .
. .| <img src="frown.gif" border="0"> . .%). . <img src="redface.gif" border="0"> . . <img src="redface.gif" border="0"> (. . <img src="redface.gif" border="0"> )
. .| <img src="frown.gif" border="0"> . .%). . <img src="redface.gif" border="0"> . . <img src="redface.gif" border="0"> (. . <img src="redface.gif" border="0"> )
Cunning Artificer
Joined: Jun 2001
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From: The spiritual home of DeHavilland
I know it won't make you feel any better but I run an office that is full of nice shiny IBM PCs all under two years old, some brand new. They all have the same symptoms as you describe and our IT Department have been unable to do anything with them. I just mention this so you won't imagine that going out and buying a preloaded fully integrated super-dooper new machine from a reputable manufacturer will be a panacea. I spend half my day soothing enraged staff whose entire morning's output has just been trashed and preventing them throwing their PCs out of the window. Deep inside I'd like to hold the window open for them while they get on with it...
**********************************. .Through difficulties to the cinema
**********************************. .Through difficulties to the cinema
Joined: Oct 2001
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From: farrrr east
I'm hoping you have read the ammendment to my first post of the 22nd Jan, as I have spoken with my college and confimed the problem m/board was an ABIT KT7A.. .Like everyone else, over the past few days having problems to connect or post, today appears to be greatly improved.
[ 03 February 2002: Message edited by: All That Glitters ]</p>
[ 03 February 2002: Message edited by: All That Glitters ]</p>
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From: Suffolk UK
As I've referred to this thread on another, I thought I'd update you with the results.
The problem turned out to be a design snag within the Abit KT7 motherboard. Somehow or other, its AGP architecture won't interface properly with some graphics cards. My GeForce2 GTS was only occasionally problemmatic; when I replaced it with a GeForce 4 MX440, the computer wouldn't start at all!
Neither Abit nor anyone else has found a definitive cause, but the only real cure is to go back to a PCI graphics card. Incidentally, the power consumption tests I carried out suggested that 145 watts was sufficient, if marginal - as I originally suspected. The 300w power supply that system now runs on made no difference at all.
My system is now on a Gigabyte K7 Triton 400 mobo, running an Athlon 2000+ XP and the aforementioned GeForce 4 MX440, 512 mb DDR ram and Win XP. It works beautifully!
The problem turned out to be a design snag within the Abit KT7 motherboard. Somehow or other, its AGP architecture won't interface properly with some graphics cards. My GeForce2 GTS was only occasionally problemmatic; when I replaced it with a GeForce 4 MX440, the computer wouldn't start at all!
Neither Abit nor anyone else has found a definitive cause, but the only real cure is to go back to a PCI graphics card. Incidentally, the power consumption tests I carried out suggested that 145 watts was sufficient, if marginal - as I originally suspected. The 300w power supply that system now runs on made no difference at all.
My system is now on a Gigabyte K7 Triton 400 mobo, running an Athlon 2000+ XP and the aforementioned GeForce 4 MX440, 512 mb DDR ram and Win XP. It works beautifully!
