Microsoft Flight Simulator - How Similar to real thing?
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Although not being a "fly on the wall" during that flight, it is difficult to comment, but the results obtained by students who have had a lot of computer flight simulator practice can be startling, so what you say doesn't suprise me.
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I gave up spending any time on FS because I found during training that I was too much "head-in" and relying on the AI rather than the horizon! I think that it is very easy to fall into some bad habits for VFR, although I agree 100% that FS is a very useful aid indeed for instrument training / currency.
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SD
I have found as a MSFS player that I try to "chase" the instruments when I fly for real (student).
Look out of the window - smooth(ish) level flight, watch the dials - it all goes wobbly and sine-wavey.
Look out of the window - smooth(ish) level flight, watch the dials - it all goes wobbly and sine-wavey.
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I use X-Plane regularly for IFR practice. It's pretty good for that, with all the Navaids etc installed and doing the right thing, and with the option to fail bits.
I can't land it off an ILS, though - I can get to decision height with the needles close to the right place, but there it ends. It seems to require quite different handling to the "real" thing for the landing bit.
For VFR, I would say it's a definite liability - it teaches you to fly "head-in" and is hopeless for the important bits (such as landing).
I've not tried the latest MS offerings, but when I tried the "demo" of X-Plane after some time using MSFS, it was a different world. MS came off the PC and hasn't been used since.
I can't land it off an ILS, though - I can get to decision height with the needles close to the right place, but there it ends. It seems to require quite different handling to the "real" thing for the landing bit.
For VFR, I would say it's a definite liability - it teaches you to fly "head-in" and is hopeless for the important bits (such as landing).
I've not tried the latest MS offerings, but when I tried the "demo" of X-Plane after some time using MSFS, it was a different world. MS came off the PC and hasn't been used since.
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It can be very 'similar' to the real thing.. you just need a lot of very expensive addons!
the default stuff is absolute crap. The addons are where the real 'realism' is.
http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/8224/56321082wk4.jpg
screen of a 737NG i've got coming into Kai Tak.. a far cry of what most people percieve MSFS is like, perhaps?
the default stuff is absolute crap. The addons are where the real 'realism' is.
http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/8224/56321082wk4.jpg
screen of a 737NG i've got coming into Kai Tak.. a far cry of what most people percieve MSFS is like, perhaps?
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I find it looks good and in the middle of the envelope it flies ok, edges of the envelope you can forget about any level of realism.
But the biggest thing, it's boring, I have a great system with lots of add-ons, it looks great flies smoothly, but anything above a 15 minute flight to another airport or circuits etc. it gets tedious. I always end up low flying, performing aeros, or some ridiculous manoeuvre to land.
Stick me in a cessna/piper and I can fly for four hours cross country and love every minute of it. Same thing on the sim and I'll be bored beyond belief.
As it has been said before, for any real use procedural training and familarisation is the best you can use it for to reinforce actual flight.
But the biggest thing, it's boring, I have a great system with lots of add-ons, it looks great flies smoothly, but anything above a 15 minute flight to another airport or circuits etc. it gets tedious. I always end up low flying, performing aeros, or some ridiculous manoeuvre to land.
Stick me in a cessna/piper and I can fly for four hours cross country and love every minute of it. Same thing on the sim and I'll be bored beyond belief.
As it has been said before, for any real use procedural training and familarisation is the best you can use it for to reinforce actual flight.
So on a slight thread drift, but still related to pretend flying....is it worth spending out to have a go on a full motion flight simulator for an hour, just as a one off (I'm never going to get to fly an Airbus/Boeing for real...unless someting really bad happens) or better for me to spend the cash on more time in the humble PA28?
My feeling is that I'd love to try out the sim, but I also love "proper" flying...for the cash spent on the sim, I could go up several times in the genuine plane, have some fun and get more experience.
I'm not a millionaire either, otherwise I'd have done the sim thing already.
My feeling is that I'd love to try out the sim, but I also love "proper" flying...for the cash spent on the sim, I could go up several times in the genuine plane, have some fun and get more experience.
I'm not a millionaire either, otherwise I'd have done the sim thing already.
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I find X-Plane (and any sim) incredibly boring compared with flying the real thing. But I can sharpen up my IFR on the sim for a lot less money (read, zero cost) and that has a lot going for it when you're a pensioner like me 
My X-Plane config doesn't have the peripherals to qualify as a valid sim for logging purposes (something X-Plane can do, and MSFS cannot), but I don't need the hours or the log - I just need to keep sharp. I keep the ratings valid the hard way, in the sky.
My X-Plane config doesn't have the peripherals to qualify as a valid sim for logging purposes (something X-Plane can do, and MSFS cannot), but I don't need the hours or the log - I just need to keep sharp. I keep the ratings valid the hard way, in the sky.
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Blues & Twos,
A level D full motion sim is an excellent idea, if you have the money and inclination. A long time ago (when the Tornado TTTE was based at Cottesmore) I had a go in the full motion sim without visuals, it was excellent. I believe that the experience would be one that you would enjoy a lot. As you said it doesn't hold much value for the future you mention but it'll be a lot of fun.
If I had the money I would shout for a trip in a good sim. It'll only knock a dent of a couple of hours out of your real flying but as you say, you'll never get a shot in the heavy metal otherwise.
A level D full motion sim is an excellent idea, if you have the money and inclination. A long time ago (when the Tornado TTTE was based at Cottesmore) I had a go in the full motion sim without visuals, it was excellent. I believe that the experience would be one that you would enjoy a lot. As you said it doesn't hold much value for the future you mention but it'll be a lot of fun.
If I had the money I would shout for a trip in a good sim. It'll only knock a dent of a couple of hours out of your real flying but as you say, you'll never get a shot in the heavy metal otherwise.
Thanks JM, you're right, experiences are worth it (you're a long time dead and all that). I am considering going to Virtual Aviation.....once I've finished paying my car off in a couple of months.
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BMI F70 into Kai Tak !
This thread reminds me of a very amusing exchange relayed to me by a good friend; once a hoary old captain on 1-11s and now a part-time flying instructor.
2000ft up, somewhere over north bucks and he's taking a low hours student through some basic manouevres. He makes some helpful technique suggestions to the student following some sloppy flying. This had little effect on the quality of airmanship and the student seemed to be becoming increasingly agitated.
Eventually the student blurted out:
"Look, I know what I'm doing !"
followed by a brief pause, he then went on to assert:
"Last night, I cross-winded a BMI Fokker 70 into Kai-tak, at night, with a cloud base of 500ft...on my sim"
My friend, with the patience and timing that only age and experience can afford said:
"That's great, it really is... Now, if you could just manage a balanced left turn in this Tomahawk..."
Nice.
2000ft up, somewhere over north bucks and he's taking a low hours student through some basic manouevres. He makes some helpful technique suggestions to the student following some sloppy flying. This had little effect on the quality of airmanship and the student seemed to be becoming increasingly agitated.
Eventually the student blurted out:
"Look, I know what I'm doing !"
followed by a brief pause, he then went on to assert:
"Last night, I cross-winded a BMI Fokker 70 into Kai-tak, at night, with a cloud base of 500ft...on my sim"
My friend, with the patience and timing that only age and experience can afford said:
"That's great, it really is... Now, if you could just manage a balanced left turn in this Tomahawk..."
Nice.
