www.caribbean alpa.com
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: castles made of sand
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A site for FOG's
It's not bad but there's always some old guy beating down one of the yonger blokes who's busting his a$$ and trying to log a few hours.
They're shunting the younger aviation community and it's starting to show.
Personally I don't want to read any comments made by pilots who are constantly bickering about why juniors should not settle for B scale salarys because it makes it worse for them.
Recently JJ posted something about collecting information for the conversion exams throughout the caribbean, he said only to apply as a proof reader if you have "airline experience"....what's going on with that? The guys who remember this stuff are the PPL students and the instructors and the green CPL holders. Meanwhile they all refuse to give any such help because everytime they go on the site all they get is hassled.
just a thought
They're shunting the younger aviation community and it's starting to show.
Personally I don't want to read any comments made by pilots who are constantly bickering about why juniors should not settle for B scale salarys because it makes it worse for them.
Recently JJ posted something about collecting information for the conversion exams throughout the caribbean, he said only to apply as a proof reader if you have "airline experience"....what's going on with that? The guys who remember this stuff are the PPL students and the instructors and the green CPL holders. Meanwhile they all refuse to give any such help because everytime they go on the site all they get is hassled.
just a thought
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Canada
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It is most British (and democratic) to allow for a rebuttal to criticism offered... and perhaps the readers of this Forum would like to see the larger picture, not just your narrow personal view of the situation...
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"It's not bad but there's always some old guy beating down one of the yonger blokes who's busting his a$$ and trying to log a few hours. They're shunting the younger aviation community and it's starting to show."
You have conveniently neglected to mention what has been posted on that Forum by the Administrator several times... that the entire CaribbeanALPA.com web site and its Discussion Forum is paid for by the ALPAs in the region and is intended as a central gathering point for the pilots of the affiliated ALPAs of the region to get together and find some cohesiveness.
As has ALSO been mentioned several times on that Forum, it is NOT there for young pilots to brag about their exploits, ask basic and self-evident aviation questions and generally carry on personal flame wars to the detriment of the site - and the departure of valued CaribbeanALPA Members.
If you and/or others want to carry on with that kind of behaviour you might try doing it here von Pprune, but I have serious doubts it would be allowed here either.
The CaribbeanALPA Forum is there for serious disussions about Caribbean aviation issues - at the level of working Commercial and Airline pilots. If you are not a working pilot oin the eastern or northern Caribbean then you are a GUEST of CaribbeanALPA and - as you are here - MUST remain within the bounds of good taste and accept whatever discipline is imposed by the Administrator.
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"Personally I don't want to read any comments made by pilots who are constantly bickering about why juniors should not settle for B scale salarys because it makes it worse for them."
And why not? As any airline pilot can tell you, in aviation seniority is everything, and particularly in the smaller Caribbean aviation community anything that allows employers to whittle away at the bottom end of the spectrum eventually ends up whittling away at the top.
When opportunity, cost of living and taxes are taken into account the highest Caribbean pilot salaries do not begin to compare with North American or Eurpean, so it is even more important to a Caribbean pilot that his/her livelihood is as protected as possible.
LIAT pilots, for instance, carried on a 6-year battle in the early 1990s with an obtuse and stubborn management for contract improvements. They ended up with a compromise - and some will say actually lost ground.
In an economy where inflation is over 8% could you deal with no pay increase for 6 years and still be happy with your situation? At the end of that period your salary only buys two-thirds of what it used to...
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"Recently JJ posted something about collecting information for the conversion exams throughout the caribbean, he said only to apply as a proof reader if you have "airline experience"....what's going on with that? The guys who remember this stuff are the PPL students and the instructors and the green CPL holders. Meanwhile they all refuse to give any such help because everytime they go on the site all they get is hassled.
just a thought"
I would respectfully suggest that you should think again. Also that in future you consider what you read more seriously and try to understand what it is really saying.
In fact JJ asked for proof readers with airline experience because - as anyone who has studied it can tell you - the material in the curriculum (turbines, hydraulics, performance graphs, pressurisation, PONR, etc. etc. etc. etc.) is waaaaaay beyond the fresh pilot just out of flying school, and may encompass all the advanced metarial you might study for a Canadian ATPL SAMRON and SAMRAT. That is why new pilots in all countries have to do a course to pass these examinations, or else it would be a snap to read up on and just go write the test.
A proof reader provides the editor with a confirmation that what is on the paper is correct. If you do not know about what you are proof reading there is little chance you will be useful at all.
If you are just bucking for a free copy, that may exactly be another reason why JJ asked for proof readers with airline experience... otherwise there would be too many freeloaders, and it is reasonable that he be reimbursed for his time and skills.
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As the poster previous to you remarked - "a lot of issues to resolve and very few serious participants" - the very reason there are so few serious participants is because the senior pilots come and read the juvenile drivel posted by the newbies and immediately leave the Forum for more interesting places to spend their spare time.
May I suggest you try and absorb that the CaribbeanALPA Forum is not your personal toy to play with (and gripe about) but was and is intended as a serious tool. When you can grasp that concept you may appreciate it more and perhaps assist in making it the interesting and cohesive gathering spot for Caribbean pilots that it should be.
This is not meant as a personal attack on you, but you did make some critical statements that required clarification - and someone to tell the other side of the story.
--
--
"It's not bad but there's always some old guy beating down one of the yonger blokes who's busting his a$$ and trying to log a few hours. They're shunting the younger aviation community and it's starting to show."
You have conveniently neglected to mention what has been posted on that Forum by the Administrator several times... that the entire CaribbeanALPA.com web site and its Discussion Forum is paid for by the ALPAs in the region and is intended as a central gathering point for the pilots of the affiliated ALPAs of the region to get together and find some cohesiveness.
As has ALSO been mentioned several times on that Forum, it is NOT there for young pilots to brag about their exploits, ask basic and self-evident aviation questions and generally carry on personal flame wars to the detriment of the site - and the departure of valued CaribbeanALPA Members.
If you and/or others want to carry on with that kind of behaviour you might try doing it here von Pprune, but I have serious doubts it would be allowed here either.
The CaribbeanALPA Forum is there for serious disussions about Caribbean aviation issues - at the level of working Commercial and Airline pilots. If you are not a working pilot oin the eastern or northern Caribbean then you are a GUEST of CaribbeanALPA and - as you are here - MUST remain within the bounds of good taste and accept whatever discipline is imposed by the Administrator.
--
--
"Personally I don't want to read any comments made by pilots who are constantly bickering about why juniors should not settle for B scale salarys because it makes it worse for them."
And why not? As any airline pilot can tell you, in aviation seniority is everything, and particularly in the smaller Caribbean aviation community anything that allows employers to whittle away at the bottom end of the spectrum eventually ends up whittling away at the top.
When opportunity, cost of living and taxes are taken into account the highest Caribbean pilot salaries do not begin to compare with North American or Eurpean, so it is even more important to a Caribbean pilot that his/her livelihood is as protected as possible.
LIAT pilots, for instance, carried on a 6-year battle in the early 1990s with an obtuse and stubborn management for contract improvements. They ended up with a compromise - and some will say actually lost ground.
In an economy where inflation is over 8% could you deal with no pay increase for 6 years and still be happy with your situation? At the end of that period your salary only buys two-thirds of what it used to...
--
--
"Recently JJ posted something about collecting information for the conversion exams throughout the caribbean, he said only to apply as a proof reader if you have "airline experience"....what's going on with that? The guys who remember this stuff are the PPL students and the instructors and the green CPL holders. Meanwhile they all refuse to give any such help because everytime they go on the site all they get is hassled.
just a thought"
I would respectfully suggest that you should think again. Also that in future you consider what you read more seriously and try to understand what it is really saying.
In fact JJ asked for proof readers with airline experience because - as anyone who has studied it can tell you - the material in the curriculum (turbines, hydraulics, performance graphs, pressurisation, PONR, etc. etc. etc. etc.) is waaaaaay beyond the fresh pilot just out of flying school, and may encompass all the advanced metarial you might study for a Canadian ATPL SAMRON and SAMRAT. That is why new pilots in all countries have to do a course to pass these examinations, or else it would be a snap to read up on and just go write the test.
A proof reader provides the editor with a confirmation that what is on the paper is correct. If you do not know about what you are proof reading there is little chance you will be useful at all.
If you are just bucking for a free copy, that may exactly be another reason why JJ asked for proof readers with airline experience... otherwise there would be too many freeloaders, and it is reasonable that he be reimbursed for his time and skills.
--
--
As the poster previous to you remarked - "a lot of issues to resolve and very few serious participants" - the very reason there are so few serious participants is because the senior pilots come and read the juvenile drivel posted by the newbies and immediately leave the Forum for more interesting places to spend their spare time.
May I suggest you try and absorb that the CaribbeanALPA Forum is not your personal toy to play with (and gripe about) but was and is intended as a serious tool. When you can grasp that concept you may appreciate it more and perhaps assist in making it the interesting and cohesive gathering spot for Caribbean pilots that it should be.
This is not meant as a personal attack on you, but you did make some critical statements that required clarification - and someone to tell the other side of the story.
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: castles made of sand
Posts: 157
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Received 0 Likes
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Constructive....I like that
No offence taken. As all pilots should, I am always ready to receive constructive criticism. I humble myself and completely understand what you're saying.
As a Flight instructor and a Charter Pilot, I see young guys fresh out of school looking for direction and we all know it's hard to come by in the Caribbean. Aviation's not the thriving industry it was a couple of years ago. All of the guys catching their tails to make a buck and pay for gas and log a few hours have no choice but to accept what ever they can get. If it means working for next to nothing, you know what?....I'll do it, because I know I’m working for a greater cause that I might not see for ten years, but I know it's there somewhere down the track.
I know that the site is paid for by the AlPA's, but what about the companies that aren't unionized? I'm sure you can think of a few, especially the smaller outfits running charters.
I still know that the guys who have just sat the conversion exams know the questions and the material the best. I'll be honest. My family is pilot oriented and subsequently so are our family friends....senior Captains....they can't remember what they did in Scotland in 60's. The guys to come to for answers are the newbees that have only just completed their exams, the ones that are helping their friends study.
You know the drill.....just my 2 cents!
As a Flight instructor and a Charter Pilot, I see young guys fresh out of school looking for direction and we all know it's hard to come by in the Caribbean. Aviation's not the thriving industry it was a couple of years ago. All of the guys catching their tails to make a buck and pay for gas and log a few hours have no choice but to accept what ever they can get. If it means working for next to nothing, you know what?....I'll do it, because I know I’m working for a greater cause that I might not see for ten years, but I know it's there somewhere down the track.
I know that the site is paid for by the AlPA's, but what about the companies that aren't unionized? I'm sure you can think of a few, especially the smaller outfits running charters.
I still know that the guys who have just sat the conversion exams know the questions and the material the best. I'll be honest. My family is pilot oriented and subsequently so are our family friends....senior Captains....they can't remember what they did in Scotland in 60's. The guys to come to for answers are the newbees that have only just completed their exams, the ones that are helping their friends study.
You know the drill.....just my 2 cents!
Last edited by cochise; 23rd Jan 2003 at 12:33.
