Looking to fly in Brazil

[adavis2088]

I'm an American citizen and I have a child with a Brazilian woman. We are looking to get married this year. And will be finishing up CFI in May 2012. My Pourtugese is conversational only but I will continue to study. After all this said I want to make a life for me and my family in Brazil and I want to work for a brazilian airline . What would I need to do to be a Brazilian pilot after I marry my girlfriend? Can someone please help me.

[alemaobaiano]

A quick search would give you the answer, but basically as things are at the moment you need to be a Brazilian citizen, a process that takes roughly 7-9 years after you get your residence visa. You cannot fly commercially until that point.

That may change in the future, but ATM that's how it is.

TTFN

[adavis2088]

I don't think so

I'm pretty sure with me having a Brazilian child and a Brazilian wife its not gonna take 7 to 9 years from some of the things I read and heard

[alemaobaiano]

I'm pretty sure it is, several friends have been down that route in recent years and that's how long it took them. You will have no problem getting your residence visa, but that isn't the same thing, and doesn't allow you to fly commercially.

Now if you are Portuguese, or from one of the other Portuguese speaking countries, and are currently living legally in Brazil, the times are reduced to roughly two years.

But hey, you know it all already.

[adavis2088]

Hey I'm not here to argue with you or debate about anything . I am a professional . I was just looking to talk to someone who is in the same situation as me . And clearly if you look at this website Brazil Citizenship Laws, Lawyers, Law Firms Lawyer, Injury, Attorney in Brazil
There is nothing talking about me haveing to wait 7 to 9 years . And seeing as though I have a child if you read on the website the time is reduced. So clearly I don't know everything but evidence ie. ( the website ) suggest that I know more than you. ;-)

[alemaobaiano]

So clearly I don't know everything but evidence ie. ( the website ) suggest that I know more than you. ;-)

I have three close friends and a number of colleagues, one with children born in Brazil, who have either gone through the process or are going through the process now. One of these now flies executive jets here. I have been interviewed by the Federal Police in several of their cases as a character reference, so I would respectfully suggest that my contact with, and knowledge of, this process extends beyond the confines of a web site. Now if you don't want to know about their experiences, that's fine by me, but why bother asking if you don't want to know?

There is nothing talking about me haveing to wait 7 to 9 years

Explicitly no, but if you know anything at all about Brazil it's not difficult to work out.

From the site you referenced

The required four-year period of residence

So we start with a mandatory four year waiting period, in your case reduced by one year due to having a Brazilian child, so you must be resident for three years before you can even apply for citizenship.

Now, when does your residence start? It starts on the day your residence visa (RNE) is published by the government. That takes up to 18 months from your date of arrival, assuming that you meet the necessary criteria. Now it can be less, but rarely seems to be below 12-15 months, especially in recent years. If my information isn't good enough for you I would suggest you read some of the comments on this forum from one or two others who are still waiting for their RNEs.

So, in the absolute best case you will have to live and work in Brazil for 3 years and 12 months before you can submit your application. In a more typical scenario you are already closing on 5 years.

Now if a relatively simple residence visa takes up to 18 months how long do you think it takes Brazilian bureaucracy to process a citizenship application? One highly qualified, wealthy, professional friend of mine who works in an industry with few suitably qualified Brazilians put in his application at the end of 2009. He's been told that it will probably be issued early next year. Those who have completed the process suggest that close to three years is the norm.

So we now have a typical case of 18 months waiting for your RNE + 3 years required residence + 3 years for the citizenship process. Now if you are a convicted Italian left-wing terrorist murderer you can cut that right down, but you aren't, are you?

All of that is from the real life experience of friends and colleagues, who have become naturalized Brazilians between 2003 and 2011. Some are pilots, some have Brazilian children, some have invested heavily in Brazil, and all are highly sought after professionals in their field.

Now frankly I don't care if you believe that or not, but whatever you may think, starting here as a foreigner isn't going to be as simple as you think it is, and that is from personal experience.

[adavis2088]

Thanks

Thanks for the information. I guess I'll have to start the process now. I'm 23 years old so I guess I'll just fly in America until I'm 30 . I know Brazilian administration work can be painfully slow. But maybe in the coming years they will make it easier for pilots to work there seeing as though in the coming year the anticipated pilot shortage is coming up. I'm not sure if it will hit Brazil but I hope it does. But I guess I'll have to stick it out in America until I can get the naturalization process done. But thanks it was helpful how you explained everything in detail. It made me remember how slow administration is over there and now I understand where your coming from

[alemaobaiano]

But maybe in the coming years they will make it easier for pilots to work there seeing as though in the coming year the anticipated pilot shortage is coming up. I'm not sure if it will hit Brazil but I hope it does.

Keep your eyes open in the run-up to the World Cup, if the rules are to be changed that's when it will happen. You might want to convert your licences before then, if you can. There is no need to live here to do that, although obviously you need to come here for the tests.

Don't give up on this, despite the red-tape. Brazil is growing quickly and there will be a shortage of pilots at some point in the future.

Good luck

[Junker-13]

Why are you saying it's better to convert the licenses before the World Cup?

[alemaobaiano]

Why are you saying it's better to convert the licenses before the World Cup?

Because anyone who does so will have a head start IF foreign pilots are allowed to fly here in the future.

I said before the World Cup because IF the law is going to change that will most likely be the moment it does so, when the government realises that any rapid expansion can't be covered by the training schools here and they need to bring in foreigners.

You know what Brazil is like, everything done at the last moment. Any candidate who can cut a month or two off the recruitment process will have an advantage, and will have demonstrated a level of commitment to flying in Brazil that sets them apart.

Of course the above might not happen, and converting licences might be a complete waste of time and money, but with the investment most pilots have already made to pursue their chosen career, this is a relatively low cost option that could make all the difference.

To be perfectly clear, this is my personal opinion based on living and working here for 10 years, so feel free to disagree with what I've said.

TTFN

[bawdy]

I might be wrong, but I am in the same kind of situation than Adavis2088 with few differences. I'm Canadian..currently flying as an FO on Dash-8 in Canada with Air Canada Jazz..Total time of around 4700 hours. My gf is Brazilian and we are getting married in November. Like you Adavis2088, I've been looking for maybe coming to live and work in Brazil. Obviously, its hard complex and long process...which hopefully can be positive one day.

I've been reading a lot lately on internet about all that..and I thought that once you are married..or have a child, instead of the 4 hours, its only one year of residency requiered to apply for the citizenship! But again.I might be wrong.....

I'm as well doing not that bad in portuguese so far..especially for the reading, and understanding...still working on the speaking part of it.

alemaobaiano. for who do you fly exactly?!?!

Hoping to learn more about this whole process
thanks!!!

[TOFFAIR]

I think there is a lack of understanding of how Brazil works (or what doesnt) RNE does mean you can live here, not work. Applying for citizenship is just a start to long and painfull process. Nevertheless depdending on the amount of money involved or how interested Brazil is to have you here things can be expedited (no guarantees for that and no specific path to be followed). I lived abroad for a long time and had my training done there, even being a native it took me a while to get a job here. The market looks quite promising here right now and this is motivating many guys abroad tohave a look, check for opportunities that arent available right now elsewhere and surely Brazil appears more atractive then China, Middle East, Kazachstan or Nigeria. But let me tell you, unless you totally commit to be here you will get frustrated. I dont know if you can imagine it, but life has got extremely expensive here. A good house is more expensive to rent than a copilots wage! Cars cost 2-3 times more then abroad, even food, or tropical fruit can be more inexpensive in NY! Not to mention the unpractical means of public transportation and health insurance, school, house security you have to pay for everything, even parking on a shoppping center, the other day in SP i paid $10 for an hour! And crime, you will have a cool approach to it until you get robbed or mugged for the first time...
As aviation happens to be centered in SP and RJ you wont escape from it.
I wish I could paint a better picture, but that is what it is right now!
Aviation authority is in a phase of transition, they have an urge to make things going until 2014, and many changes are proposed. Among it a bill to let foreign pilots fly here. But it is in a hold for a while and who knows when it will be decided and how. But hey, you could also try something with Embraer, as they are starting assembling in the US, Many companies do sim in US, many Brazilians have aircraft registered abroad, so if you have both licenses and speak Portuguese, this might be a door!

[Sydy]

Toffair,

Very good and very clear post. I'd only add that even Embraer and companies with N acft ask for portuguese and ANAC licenses, which are hard to obtain by a non brazilian. Just as you said.

Good luck everybody and all the best,

Sydy

[alemaobaiano]

or have a child, instead of the 4 hours, its only one year of residency requiered to apply for the citizenship!

No, it reduces the requirement by one year, so you still have to wait three years.

alemaobaiano. for who do you fly exactly?!?!

Me . I fly for fun and own a piece of my own aircraft, shared with a couple of airline pilots and a lawyer (no jokes please, the lawyer is a really nice guy.........). However I do meet with Infraero managers at least once a week as the company I work for is in the aviation industry. Actually it's not just pilots who face restrictions, several industries here are protected and civil aviation is just one of them.

RNE does mean you can live here, not work

You can work, just not directly in the protected industries like aviation. Subcontracting is a way round it though.

the other day in SP i paid $10 for an hour

That's quite cheap for SP, even in US$ .

TTFN

[LEAv8or]

I need to know

For those pilots that are currently living in Brazil, I need know...what you have done it the same if you could do it all over again?? For those of you who once lived and trained in the US, then made the move to Brazil...would you have done it again?? I am sooooo stuck in the middle here. I really want to go to Brazil to continue my aviation career but I have much to consider. With 2 small children, a non-Brazilian wife and a secure flying job here in Florida, I fear that moving might be a set back and not a step in the right direction. I have considered a posible leap to the regionals here in the states but it would be a HUGE paycut for me. ( at least for the first 3 years) What would you do?? Bite the bullet, take the initial paycut and stay here or move to Brazil? Of course, staying at my current job as a Law Enforcement aviator is always an option and its def. considered. The only reason that I have to even think of resigning it for pure hapiness and satisfaction. My job is very important and I value it very much, but at the end of the day its not what I really want to do. This type of flying is not the type I see myself doing for the next 20 years. I think it would be only fare to make room for someone who truly has a passion for flying in circles looking for a sh*tbag.

[alemaobaiano]

With 2 small children, a non-Brazilian wife and a secure flying job here in Florida

Not as a commercial pilot but as someone who made the move 10 years ago your answer is right there.

However bad you think your current situation is, moving to Brazil would not be a good idea. When I came here my children were grown up, I was (and still am) married to a Brazilian, we had property here, and I already spoke fluent Portuguese, so I would do it again. Under the same conditions as you I certainly wouldn't have made the move.

TTFN

[AeroBoero]

I fear that moving might be a set back and not a step in the right direction

If things go really south when you do that, is there a remote “back up” plan? Or just go back to the US and start from scratch again?

[surplus1]

For those pilots that are currently living in Brazil, I need know...what you have done it the same if you could do it all over again?? For those of you who once lived and trained in the US, then made the move to Brazil...would you have done it again?? I am sooooo stuck in the middle here. I really want to go to Brazil to continue my aviation career but I have much to consider. With 2 small children, a non-Brazilian wife and a secure flying job here in Florida, I fear that moving might be a set back and not a step in the right direction. I have considered a posible leap to the regionals here in the states but it would be a HUGE paycut for me. ( at least for the first 3 years) What would you do?? Bite the bullet, take the initial paycut and stay here or move to Brazil? Of course, staying at my current job as a Law Enforcement aviator is always an option and its def. considered. The only reason that I have to even think of resigning it for pure hapiness and satisfaction. My job is very important and I value it very much, but at the end of the day its not what I really want to do. This type of flying is not the type I see myself doing for the next 20 years. I think it would be only fare to make room for someone who truly has a passion for flying in circles looking for a sh*tbag.

Your post bothers me and that is why I reply. Not so much because of what you said as by what you did NOT say.

While I have been to Brasil, I have never lived or worked there. I don't know anything (other that what I just read here) about Brasil's immigration laws or work permit status so I can't help there - except to say make certain that you do know before you make such a move. However, I have worked for many years (now retired) as an ex-pat pilot and do know a little about living and working in countries other than the United States.

Let me just say this: If you are a native US national (born and raised in the US), and you have not lived extensively abroad, and you don't speak the language fluently, it takes a special personality and character to make your life happily in any other foreign country. Just having a job there will not make your life a happy one. That has nothing to do with Brasil specifically. The same would apply to any country; some more than others.

In my opinion, you really need to live in a foreign city/country for at least a year before you decide to permanently relocate there.

Your post seems to say that you are unhappy with your current job and what you want to do is advance your aviation career. Well, most professional pilots also want to do that, but it doesn't mean you'll be content living abroad even if you succeed in getting a good flying job with a great airline.

Additionally, once you decide to change your nationality officially - there is no easy way to reverse it for a US national. This isn't the UK.

You didn't say why, out of all the places that exist, you chose Brasil. Why is that? Is it because you know that the Brasilian economy is growing rapidly and that will result in many new opportunities? That is true, but what other reason makes you chose Brasil? I ask this because it will have a lot more to do with your ultimate satisfaction than any job you might get.

Brasil is a huge country, larger than the "lower 48 of the US with about 200 million people. But most of its geography is still undeveloped and life, particularly for an airline pilot, will be concentrated in the costal areas, such as SP and RJ and the space between them. Of course there is also Brasilia and Manaus but none of the significant airlines are based there.

Sao Jose dos Campos is a nice town (about 50 mi from SP) but unless you want to work for Embraer, its not an airline gig and the commute to SP is at least an hour each way. Sao Paulo itself is an urban jungle (like New York) and Rio isn't much better. Unless you like really big cities with hoardes of poor folk, they aren't exactly garden spots. [I don't personally care for huge cities in case you wonder - but maybe you do].

There are about 30 certified "airlines" in the country but only a handful of those are "major airlines" (like TAM, GOL, Varig). Most of the opportunities, if any, are likely to be in one of the small regional-type carriers. Many have financial troubles (just like US carriers) and there are frequent acquisitions/mergers.

You say you're 31, your wife is not a Brasilian and you have two small kids. I have no idea what your financial circumstance might be, but unless you're very well off, I would think twice about leaving your job and packing off to Brasil in search of an airline job.

You don't say what your flying experience might be but even if you're typed in the 737NG/AB-320 (many in Brasil), the 767 or the AB-330/340, to my knowledge there is no critical shortage of pilots in Brasil and your chances of walking into one of those, even it the right seat, is highly improbable.

I'm not trying to discourage you but rather to prepare you. But, unless you have some special reason like family that attracts you to Brasil in particular, I don't see this as a good plan career wise.

Whatever/wherever you decide, make sure the wife really shares your idea if you plan to take her and the kids with you. Working and living abroad is not easy for most US nationals. It is not that other countries are bad or worse at all, but they are very different.

If what you really want is to just go "airline" my guess would be that your best bet is to try to get on with a good regional in the US, get some experience, and then try your luck at a major carrier. At the age of 31 you don't have much time to play with. That's kind of "old" to start as a new hire at a major US carrier.

If you still want to live and work out of the US, then once you have some command experience (jet), there are opportunities in Japan, S. Korea, Vietnam, China, and places like the Middle East or India. Asia, India and the ME do have pilot shortages but the living conditions are very, very, different and it's not easy with a family. That's a very long commute.

Whatever you decide, I wish you all the very best.

[adavis2088]

Great info guys

I just hope they start letting foreign pilots work in brazil . Because my girlfriend and my daughter have never been to America and I'm not sure if my girlfriend will like living here. I know I love brazil and would love to live and fly there. But I guess worst case scenario I can work in the USA and live in brazil seeing as though it's only a overnight trip from Miami to get there. I met a 737 first officer who lived in ipanema and work for American Airlines. But if anybody comes up on some loop holes please let us know. I want to get this ball rolling now. Who should I contact first? And does anaca have an American agency that I can call without being charged long distance?

[LEAv8or]

Surplus,

Thanks for the post. Although you mentioned that you have never lived in Brazil, it sounds like you have plenty of life and aviation experience. Brazil was my choice because I share a dual citizenship. (both parents are Brazilian) I also speak, read and write portuguese fluently. I still have plenty of family that live in different places in Brazil but none that i can really rely on. If i go, I would be completely on my own. Its not so much that I am unhappy with my current job, its the overwelming feeling of pursuing the career I've always desired. I know there are so many things to consider and that is why I'm trying to get different perspectives. I appreciate your point of views and I welcome the criticism. I know and don't have much time but I am not exactly over the hill just yet. (lol) As of right now, I am leaning more towards NOT going to Brazil. I have received plenty of negative feedback from pilots who are currently living/flying there, and not so much positive ones. I am begining to realize that this was all just a pipedream turned nightmare. I had a different idea in my head when I began thinking about moving to Brazil.