Looking to fly in Brazil

[alemaobaiano]

Surplus1, excellent post sir, that really says it all.

And does anaca have an American agency that I can call without being charged long distance?

Not that I can discover, their site only lists contact points within Brazil.

TTFN

[surplus1]

Surplus,

Thanks for the post. Although you mentioned that you have never lived in Brazil, it sounds like you have plenty of life and aviation experience. Brazil was my choice because I share a dual citizenship. (both parents are Brazilian) I also speak, read and write portuguese fluently. I still have plenty of family that live in different places in Brazil but none that i can really rely on. If i go, I would be completely on my own. Its not so much that I am unhappy with my current job, its the overwelming feeling of pursuing the career I've always desired. I know there are so many things to consider and that is why I'm trying to get different perspectives. I appreciate your point of views and I welcome the criticism. I know and don't have much time but I am not exactly over the hill just yet. (lol) As of right now, I am leaning more towards NOT going to Brazil. I have received plenty of negative feedback from pilots who are currently living/flying there, and not so much positive ones. I am begining to realize that this was all just a pipedream turned nightmare. I had a different idea in my head when I began thinking about moving to Brazil.

You're welcome. Yes, I do have considerable aviation experience both in the US and abroad. I'm retired now but I've "been around" both in life and in aviation.

First - let me make clear that nothing I said was intended to be a critique; it was only an opinion based on the information you provided.

Second - You have now provided new information of utmost importance and that changes my perspective considerably.

A. Given that both of your parents are Brasilian citizens, under Brasilian law, you are already a Brasilian citizen (even if you don't want to be). That changes everything.

- Like the United States, Brasil does not officially recognize "dual nationality". What that means, in terms of what you are thinking about doing, is pretty simple: Once a Brasilian, always a Brasilian. In other words, on the day you were born you bacame a Brasilian citizen by virtue of your parent's citizenship. That is so regardless of where you happened to be born. You cannot lose this "right" unless you officially renounce your Brasilian citizenship before the appropriate Brasilian authorities. I see NO reason why you might want to do that.

- While neither country officially recognizes dual nationality, reality is there is nothing they can do about it so, they accept reality.

- If you were born in the US, then you are automatically a US citizen, regardless of the nationality of your parents at the time of your birth. You cannot "lose" your US citizenship because Brasilian law also makes you a Brasilian national. Just like Brasil, you would have to officially renounce your US citizenship. I see NO reason to do that.

- Now, if you are a "naturalized" US citizen, the law is a bit different. It IS possible to lose your US citizenship - if you swear allegiance to another country. In the situation you describe, that does not apply - because Brasilian law makes you a Brasilian national - automatically. What you do or don't do has nothing to do with it.

- This is how "dual citizenship" becomes a reality due to conflicting laws.

B. You are fluent in Portuguese (Brasil's language), which is a major advantage [regardless of the nationality thing] and that removes any disadvantage.

Those two things change my original opinion completely. It is now a different ball game. It "levels the playing field" and gives you an advantage that most people do not have.

C. If you want to live and work in Brasil there are, in my opinion, a couple things you need to do BEFORE you make the change.

1. If you do not have a Brasilian passport, or if it is not "active", then the 1st thing you need to do is get that passport and make it active (up to date). You can do this at the Brasilian consulate in Miami, FL. (it's on 8th St. somewhere).

a. Since you are not yet 32 or more, you will also need to "register" with the Brasilian military (required by Brasilian law every year). You can do this at the Brasilian consulate as well. My Portuguese is not fluent, but this is the rule:

"Entre os 18 e 31 anos de idade, o brasileiro de sexo masculino deverá apresentar-se anualmente ao Serviço Consular para fins de adiamento de incorporação e, ao regressar em caráter definitivo para o Brasil, deverá apresentar-se à autoridade militar no prazo de 30 dias para regularizar sua situação militar.”

If you take care of this by registering at the Conuslate before you travel, that problem will go away. Once you turn 32 it is over anyway.

2. Once you have both passports valid and up to date - when you leave or enter the US, use your US Passport. When you leave or enter Brasil, use your Brasilian Passport. As far as I know, you cannot enter or leave Brasil with a US Passport - if they know you are a Brasilian citizen. While in Brasil, your US citizenship becomes irrelevant and you are just like any other Brasilian in every respect, legally.

D. With that out of the way, the next thing you need to do is convert your US pilot certificates to Brasilian certificates. I don't know exactly what this entails but most likely you will need to have your log books up to date and certified, and then pass some written tests, after which you will have Brasilian airman certificates. This will not affect your US certificates. Most likely you will have to be physically in Brasil in order to do this. That may not be "the law" but it will sure make it a lot easier. You do this through the Agência Nacional de Aviação Civil (ANAC). Talk to them and they will tell you how.

Note: It takes time (I don't know how much) to do this so plan accordingly. You may have to go to Brasil more than once or stay there for some time until you get through the red tape.


E. Once the above is all done, the palying field is now "level" and you can begin the process of finding a job that you want. You will be competing with other Brasilians as a Brasilian on an equal footing. That's very different from trying to get work as an expat (foreigner).


Since you are a Brasilian when in Brasil and an American when in the US, you now have a much bigger "market" in which to sell your services. You can play in both worlds on an equal basis. "Dual citizenship" has its advantages.


One final thought: Whether you decide to move to Brasil or not - Never quit the job you have in search of another (unless you have no choice). It is always easier to find a new flying job when you already have one.


Good luck to you.

[alemaobaiano]

Surplus1 is right, your already are Brazilian

D. With that out of the way, the next thing you need to do is convert your US pilot certificates to Brasilian certificates. I don't know exactly what this entails but most likely you will need to have your log books up to date and certified, and then pass some written tests, after which you will have Brasilian airman certificates.

Plus a few check flights, at your expense.

Most likely you will have to be physically in Brasil in order to do this.

Yes, it has to be done here, Rio seems to be the best place too.

Note: It takes time (I don't know how much) to do this so plan accordingly. You may have to go to Brasil more than once or stay there for some time until you get through the red tape.

Plan on three months or so.

Get a CPF as soon as you can, when you have to start paying for things as a Brazilian it makes life much easier. You can apply at the consulate.

CPF – Inscrição de Residentes no Brasil ou no Exterior

TTFN

[surplus1]

Get a CPF as soon as you can, when you have to start paying for things as a Brazilian it makes life much easier. You can apply at the consulate.

Thanks Alemaobaiano, I overlooked that when I was writing. It's similar to a Social Security Number in the US - not the same thing really, but absolutely essential to conduct any type of transaction involving money, like open a bank account, get a cell phone, rent a house, buy a house and so forth.

[adavis2088]

Where do I start

What about with a brazilian child and a near future Brazilian wife. Where should I start. I have a 7 month old daughter still living in brazil and plan on bringing them to America in the very near future. After I finish my commercial and cfi around febuary . I would like to star the process ASAP . Because brazil is where I wanna be

[alemaobaiano]

What about with a brazilian child and a near future Brazilian wife. Where should I start. I have a 7 month old daughter still living in brazil and plan on bringing them to America in the very near future. After I finish my commercial and cfi around febuary . I would like to star the process ASAP . Because brazil is where I wanna be

OK, as I'm sat in Congonhas waiting for my flight I have time to go into this...

LEAv8or is in a different situation to you, he is Brazilian due to his parents, he just needs the documents to prove it and he is ready to go. He is also an experienced rotary pilot who probably has a CV that will open a lot of doors, should he choose to go into executive or offshore helicopters here. He could possibly find himself with a job paying R$10-15k per month, and you can live quite nicely on that, even in São Paulo or Rio. Depending on how quickly he wants to move, he COULD be starting 2012 as a pilot in Brazil.

I don't want to sound rude, but you, OTOH, are not Brazilian so you have a huge obstacle to overcome. It also seems that you are not experienced, as you haven't yet completed your CFI, so your road is a lot tougher and longer, but not impossible. There is no shortage of desperate Brazilian instructors waiting for the chance to start at one of the smaller airlines Surplus1 mentions, for salaries less than our company cleaner earns, and these are the people you will be competing against for jobs. How low could you go in a salary bidding war?

As explained earlier a Brazilian child reduces your mandatory residence requirement by one year, it does not remove it altogether, so that is still three years resident in Brazil, BEFORE you can apply for citizenship. So what can you do?

1. Finish your training.
2. Move to Brazil with your new family and apply for your RNE. You will need to show sufficient income to support your family, so essentially you will need a job or a fair chunk of savings. As commercial flying is out of the question what else can you do to earn money? BTW, marriage isn't necessary, demonstrating a stable relationship is enough.
3. Wait......12 to 18 months is normal these days
4. Once your RNE is issued you can start counting your mandatory residence period.
5. Wait.....3 years this time.
6. Apply for citizenship.
7. Wait.....up to 3 years again. How quickly this happens depends on your perceived value to Brazil. Without wishing to be rude I'm sure you can work out where you come on that scale.
8. Become Brazilian and start applying for work.

Do not be tempted by the "bom e velho jeitinho brasileiro" to try to get round this, huge amounts of money invested in Brazil is just about the only shortcut.

You can convert your licences at any time after number 1, but there are some things that cannot be changed. The waiting periods at numbers 3 and 5 must be predominantly spent in Brazil, so you can't begin the process and go back to live in the US. The Federal Police WILL check up on you, with your employer, neighbours, and anyone else you listed on your application.

You might be able to pick up a slot for 6 months as a flight instructor, but the salary, if any, will be pitiful. How are you going to build hours? Depending on where you are, you can expect to pay around R$200/hour for a rental and most aeroclubes will insist that you are accompanied by an instructor, at your expense of course.

One question that comes to mind is how long have you stayed in Brazil for? Living here is very different from visiting, as it is in any country. What do you really know about daily life in Brazil?

Surplus1 suggests living somewhere for a year before taking the plunge, and as someone who has been resident in six countries over the last 35 years, I would agree completely. Read his first post on this thread very carefully, there could be no better advice for someone thinking of making this choice.

Finally, they are calling my flight.........0950 call for a 0640 flight...

TTFN

[adavis2088]

Thanks

I've visited brazil more than 20 times in the last 3 years. The longest I've stayed there was for 2 months. I mean I'm 23 years old right now so I'm not looking for this to happen tommorow . I was planning to be able to work there in the next 4 to 5 years. So I guess I will start to save $50,000 so that I can fly there. I plan on getting my rotorcraft also

[alemaobaiano]

OK, you have some idea then Where did you stay?

The biggest obstacle in the case of any foreign pilot coming to Brazil is the requirement to actually be here during the naturalization process without being able to work as a pilot. You normally need to be working to conform to the rules but yet you cannot practice your chosen profession......

Don't give up on it, build your hours and ratings, practice your Portuguese and plan carefully. You're only 23, so time is on your side.

TTFN

[adavis2088]

Also

Does anybody know if it is true that you can take your instrument rating and commercial rating from you fixed wing. And then get your rotorcraft and you instrument and commercial rating goes to your rotorcraft also

[LEAv8or]

Thank you!

Hey guys, I really appreciate all the responses and info. I have already started some of the process. I just received my CPF, I got my military paperwork up to date, I'm working on all my college transcripts being recognized by the Brazilian consulate, looking into how to certify my logbook and I'm waiting for my "titulo de eleitor" to be ready for pick up at the consulate. Once that is ready, I will plan accordingly for a Brazil trip. I realize that this may take some time so I do plan on making more than one trip. I am not in a huge hurry but I want to get this done in a timely fashion. I am really excited about the whole process and I look foward to my children learning and growing up with a different culture than they have been exposed to so far. I was born in New York City but was raised in Brazil for a small portion of my childhood (4 yr. old to 8 yr.old) I still till this day, I value that time even though a good portion of it, was a difficult time. All my memories of me growing up in Brazil, were good ones. I have been back for vacation almost every year since. I have also had the pleasure of taking my daughter as well and plan for my son to go soon before the actual move. I know this is a big change for us and it will not be easy, but we are all looking foward to it. I will open up all my possibilities as far as flying goes (airline, corporate, helicopter etc.) Thank you guys so much for the morale booster. I have been getting some negativity from others and it had me second guessing my plans. Again, I do realize this will be a BIG change and no easy task, but at the end of the day, we are all exited about this adventure.

[alemaobaiano]

Does anybody know if it is true that you can take your instrument rating and commercial rating from you fixed wing. And then get your rotorcraft and you instrument and commercial rating goes to your rotorcraft also

A quick check around seems to show that the training and licences are quite separate, but I didn't have time to dive into the regulations.

You can find them here Agência Nacional de Aviação Civil

TTFN

[Levraimatt]

I'm chiming on this thread, even though I'm based in Colombia.
Most South American companies will rather have airplanes parked than hiring foreigners. It's surreal but that's the way it is. National pride, unreal bureaucracy, a lot must change here.

[surplus1]

Most South American companies will rather have airplanes parked than hiring foreigners. It's surreal but that's the way it is. National pride, unreal bureaucracy, a lot must change here.

That is not at all unique to South American companies. Most companies in most parts of the world prefer to hire their own nationals when possible. Additionally, most countrys have immigration laws that restrict the hiring of foreigners in an attempt to protect the job opportunities of their own nationals.

[flyingswiss]

I moved to Brazil in 2009 and I lived there for 2 years. I`m a Swiss citizen and I have domestic relationship with a Brazilian citizenship (we lived in the US before). It took me the whole time I was there to get the RNE, and you do need your RNE to get the license validation!

In my personal experience it`s not worth it, for me those two years, professionally speaking were wasted.

At one point I decided to move out, I got an entry level corporate job in an other 3rd world country now and I make as much as an airline captain in Brazil with a far better QOL.

don`t make my mistake

[LEAv8or]

Swiss,

Where are you now? How was your 2 years in Brazil? Did you find it easy to adapt?

[flyingswiss]

That is not at all unique to South American companies. Most companies in most parts of the world prefer to hire their own nationals when possible. Additionally, most countrys have immigration laws that restrict the hiring of foreigners in an attempt to protect the job opportunities of their own nationals.

None of the European countries have laws (not company policies) that restrict the hiring of foreigners that are legal residents, since this in most countries it is Anti-Constitutional and a form of discrimination. In the US you can take a company to court if they don`t hire you based on the fact you are not American.

[flyingswiss]

Swiss,

Where are you now? How was your 2 years in Brazil? Did you find it easy to adapt?

It was not that hard, since I lived in latin america before, and when I was a kid my dad was working in Brazil so it was not a whole new country for me.

I had the luck that when I moved there everything was pretty much set up: house, car...taken care by my gfs family.

I found many Brazilians to be racist against foreign workers, and I got sick really fast of being called GRINGO, since most Brazilians don`t even know the real meaning of the term. At times it can be a beautiful coutntry but I do really think they are going in the wrong direction, what amazed me was that I use to spend more money then when I lived in the US.

My girlfriend who holds a Brazilian passport, but lived in the US most of his life can`t wait to get out.

I currently fly in the French Pacific Islands.