CAA Controll in the BVI
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Here, there, anywhere
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CAA Controll in the BVI
Rumour is spreading around the BVI that the
CAA is trying to turn all operators to CAA controll from the current almost %100 FAA Controlled operators.
Any body have any facts confirming this or destroying this rumour?
CAA is trying to turn all operators to CAA controll from the current almost %100 FAA Controlled operators.
Any body have any facts confirming this or destroying this rumour?
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Montsegur
Posts: 313
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I understand that Air Safety Support International (a CAA subsidiary company established under Directions from the Secretary of State for Transport) has been designated by the Governor of BVI to undertake safety regulatory functions in BVI. No doubt they will be reviewing a number of issues. If the US operators have their principal place of business in BVI (as your post seems to suggest) then I expect that ASSI may recommend appropriate action to both the Governor and the DFT.
See ASSI
See ASSI
Gatvol
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: KLAS/TIST/FAJS/KFAI
Posts: 4,195
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As one who flys in/out of there daily. Im curious as to why this would be a problem. Elaborate a bit.
I have noticed some changes for Helicopter Operations in the last couple years. Mostly brought out from Competition between companies. Those changes have cost the tourism industry there, but not so much as anyone in the BVI would notice.
I have noticed some changes for Helicopter Operations in the last couple years. Mostly brought out from Competition between companies. Those changes have cost the tourism industry there, but not so much as anyone in the BVI would notice.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Montsegur
Posts: 313
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
B Sousa
I'm not sure whether you were asking for clarification from me or Davidils201.
If me, the answer is that ICAO requires operators to have their AOC from the state in which they have their principal place of business. If operators have an FAA AOC but have their principal place of business in BVI they are not meeting ICAO standards and therefore, if I understand correctly, they are in breach of conditions of the permits which allow them to operate services into BVI. This is a criminal offence which has a maximum penalty of an unlimited fine and/or up to two years in gaol.
I'm not sure whether you were asking for clarification from me or Davidils201.
If me, the answer is that ICAO requires operators to have their AOC from the state in which they have their principal place of business. If operators have an FAA AOC but have their principal place of business in BVI they are not meeting ICAO standards and therefore, if I understand correctly, they are in breach of conditions of the permits which allow them to operate services into BVI. This is a criminal offence which has a maximum penalty of an unlimited fine and/or up to two years in gaol.
Gatvol
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: KLAS/TIST/FAJS/KFAI
Posts: 4,195
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cathar
Interesting. Im not sure that there are any BVI registered aircraft. Even the locally owned companies (BVI Citizens) operate N Numbers. Where there AOC is located, I cant say, but with N Numbered Aircraft I have to think its in the States. I know the company that has the Bell 222s operating lives and operates from the BVI, yet the aircraft are registered to a Corporation in Delaware (U.S.). Am I missing something, could the AOC be in the BVI with N Numbered aircraft registered somewhere else??
They also use the U.S. Dollar Bill instead of the Pound. ha ha
Interesting. Im not sure that there are any BVI registered aircraft. Even the locally owned companies (BVI Citizens) operate N Numbers. Where there AOC is located, I cant say, but with N Numbered Aircraft I have to think its in the States. I know the company that has the Bell 222s operating lives and operates from the BVI, yet the aircraft are registered to a Corporation in Delaware (U.S.). Am I missing something, could the AOC be in the BVI with N Numbered aircraft registered somewhere else??
They also use the U.S. Dollar Bill instead of the Pound. ha ha
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Montsegur
Posts: 313
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I believe that there is one aircraft registered in BVI. I am told that there are no BVI AOC holders and any of the N registered aircraft in BVI are operating an FAA AOC.
Regarding the Bells, my understanding was that the while the BVI company owns the helicopters and markets the local services, they are actually operated under the AOC of Air Carolina Inc. This also seems to be implied on their web site
Regarding the Bells, my understanding was that the while the BVI company owns the helicopters and markets the local services, they are actually operated under the AOC of Air Carolina Inc. This also seems to be implied on their web site
Last edited by Cathar; 14th Dec 2004 at 17:53.
Gatvol
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: KLAS/TIST/FAJS/KFAI
Posts: 4,195
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cathar.
According to the registrations they are owned by a Delaware Corp. "Panda Adventures Inc" The Owner?? of the Company that flys them is a Canadian fellow and his company is Island Helicopters. The Pilots wear uniforms for "Blue Water Helicopters or Blues Water Aviation" I think the 135 is under Air Carolina.
So who knows..... I guess its the Island style when dealing with FAA/CAA. keep em confused......ha ha
According to the registrations they are owned by a Delaware Corp. "Panda Adventures Inc" The Owner?? of the Company that flys them is a Canadian fellow and his company is Island Helicopters. The Pilots wear uniforms for "Blue Water Helicopters or Blues Water Aviation" I think the 135 is under Air Carolina.
So who knows..... I guess its the Island style when dealing with FAA/CAA. keep em confused......ha ha
Gatvol
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: KLAS/TIST/FAJS/KFAI
Posts: 4,195
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cathar
I find that THERE ARE some rumblings over in the BVI. It appears someone who originally stirred some
is continuing to do so. Problem is its going to bite him in the ass also.
Stay tuned for more in this saga. it could be very interesting. Some of those who live there are also being hurt in the pocket book, which will certainly not endear this person to them.
Forgot to mention. Anyone who lives on Montsegur must certainly be a Helicopter Pilot. It would have been nice to have one back in 1244
I find that THERE ARE some rumblings over in the BVI. It appears someone who originally stirred some
is continuing to do so. Problem is its going to bite him in the ass also.Stay tuned for more in this saga. it could be very interesting. Some of those who live there are also being hurt in the pocket book, which will certainly not endear this person to them.
Forgot to mention. Anyone who lives on Montsegur must certainly be a Helicopter Pilot. It would have been nice to have one back in 1244
Last edited by B Sousa; 15th Dec 2004 at 20:34.
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Body
Posts: 130
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There has been a general trend towards ironing out the confused sitiation that has existed in the various UK Overseas Territories. Many companies are based on the islands in question but operate under FAA because it's very much cheaper and simpler than the CAA/DCA regs. (emphasis on cost).
Anguilla was "cleaned up" a couple of years ago, I believe St. Kitts/Nevis is on the way, others will surely follow. The main reason is, I believe, that there is a perceived lack of government line throughout the territories in the Caribbean. Changing as we speak. It was a bone of contention between operators working the same islands for more or less money and hassle, as the case may be.
Is it better? Don't know but it will cost more, that's for sure.
Anguilla was "cleaned up" a couple of years ago, I believe St. Kitts/Nevis is on the way, others will surely follow. The main reason is, I believe, that there is a perceived lack of government line throughout the territories in the Caribbean. Changing as we speak. It was a bone of contention between operators working the same islands for more or less money and hassle, as the case may be.
Is it better? Don't know but it will cost more, that's for sure.
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Sydney NSW
Posts: 513
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CAA as far as I know
BVI is a strange place for sure. All cars imported from the States therefore LHD. But they drive on the left. Makes for interesting driving at night. Currency is... the US dollar. They sell petrol not gasoline but in US gallons. Culturally they lean more and more to the US way of life but have English pubs (eg Pusser's in Roadtown). As an overseas territory of the UK they receive moneys from there. Incidentally the clearway of the recently extended Beef Island airport goes over water and it must be one of the only airports in the world that require yachts above a certain mast height to contact the tower! Excellent beach bar just off the runway end, called De Loose Mongoose. Try the legendary "no see 'um " cocktail and watch those ATRs skim the mastheads!! [There is even an abandoned resort on an island twixt Tortola and Virgin Gorda, sail there and walk round Ghost Town... name of the island? Mosquito Island! Now why did that place not take off?]. Crazy place, crazy guys. CAA having had their say through ASSI about the airport have put down their marker pretty strongly. But compared to ANU it is paradise. I take my hat off to Beewee, Virgin and anyone else who experiences VC Bird International! Not so sure about LIAT!!
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: out of a suitcase
Posts: 191
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I suppose this will mean that we will all need a Jar licence and 14 exams worth of useless crap before we are alowed to fly an Aztec in the islands. This should make the 250 Hr TT, never actually been in a cloud European hour builders very happy !
What will happen to "locals" who did all their training in the US, or have been doing the job for the last 10 years?
What will happen to "locals" who did all their training in the US, or have been doing the job for the last 10 years?
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Body
Posts: 130
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
rosbif
I agree with your sentiments about the locals. However it is government policy that decides the regulation of air traffic everywhere, not sentiment. The islands are overseas territories and therefore subject to the laws governing the OTs. Britain is making an effort to get all the islands in line with a common policy. The fact that people have been running the US system for years because it's quick and easy and cheap (and tolerated) doesn't mean that it will always be like that.
Times change, we all have to live with it. As it is at the moment anybody obtaining a DCA CPL from Antigua in order to operate in the OECS must do exams based on the UK system but to a slightly lower standard. I never quite understood this as I am sure that islanders are just as capable of achieving high standards as europeans so why not apply the same standards to all territories?
Right now the fact that all is FAA makes it great for US and local FAA pilots to work. How nice it would be for UK citizens to be able to work easily in the BRITISH Virgin Islands without a mountain of BS to climb.
I agree with your sentiments about the locals. However it is government policy that decides the regulation of air traffic everywhere, not sentiment. The islands are overseas territories and therefore subject to the laws governing the OTs. Britain is making an effort to get all the islands in line with a common policy. The fact that people have been running the US system for years because it's quick and easy and cheap (and tolerated) doesn't mean that it will always be like that.
Times change, we all have to live with it. As it is at the moment anybody obtaining a DCA CPL from Antigua in order to operate in the OECS must do exams based on the UK system but to a slightly lower standard. I never quite understood this as I am sure that islanders are just as capable of achieving high standards as europeans so why not apply the same standards to all territories?
Right now the fact that all is FAA makes it great for US and local FAA pilots to work. How nice it would be for UK citizens to be able to work easily in the BRITISH Virgin Islands without a mountain of BS to climb.
Gatvol
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: KLAS/TIST/FAJS/KFAI
Posts: 4,195
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Blueplume writes: " The fact that people have been running the US system for years because it's quick and easy and cheap (and tolerated) doesn't mean that it will always be like that."
AND JUST AS SAFE.
Interesting to see how things are now. As a helicopter having to taxi like a ing Airplane,. Hold untill theres no aircraft within miles.......Get into sequence between a Dash 8 and an ATR. What insanity you bring to the world of flying..Oh yes and keep up your speed...
Someone should tell the folks in the U.K. that helicopters are a bit different and more efficient when left to do the work they are designed for...... Certainly glad to be flying under the FAA..
AND JUST AS SAFE.
Interesting to see how things are now. As a helicopter having to taxi like a
ing Airplane,. Hold untill theres no aircraft within miles.......Get into sequence between a Dash 8 and an ATR. What insanity you bring to the world of flying..Oh yes and keep up your speed...Someone should tell the folks in the U.K. that helicopters are a bit different and more efficient when left to do the work they are designed for...... Certainly glad to be flying under the FAA..
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Body
Posts: 130
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
B Sousa
You're quite correct, it is just as safe and even makes more sense on occasion. But as usual these decisions always have a political as well as economic dimension.
Overseas territories are "in" again and more interest is being shown by european countries, also due to pressure from the US to have clear standards. It is even in the interest of the US to have the islands regulated under non-FAA regs because the US can then make access to US territories harder for "foreign" operators.
But you know that most of the islands have a problem with each other when it comes to work. You're an outsider (non-belonger, as the Anguillans call them) wherever you go, regardless of colour.
The UK Dept. of Transport is exerting pressure on the various OTs and operators to toe the line. What they want to phase out is operators based in UK territories from operating FAA and foreign charter operators abusing 5th Freedom rights. At least for Anguilla this comes into effect on the 30th January 2005, with operations being permitted as of 4th Jan. with a temporary permit. If the operator is designated as a Local Carrier then it may fly to any state from Anguilla as opposed to originating from the base territory.
You're quite correct, it is just as safe and even makes more sense on occasion. But as usual these decisions always have a political as well as economic dimension.
Overseas territories are "in" again and more interest is being shown by european countries, also due to pressure from the US to have clear standards. It is even in the interest of the US to have the islands regulated under non-FAA regs because the US can then make access to US territories harder for "foreign" operators.
But you know that most of the islands have a problem with each other when it comes to work. You're an outsider (non-belonger, as the Anguillans call them) wherever you go, regardless of colour.
The UK Dept. of Transport is exerting pressure on the various OTs and operators to toe the line. What they want to phase out is operators based in UK territories from operating FAA and foreign charter operators abusing 5th Freedom rights. At least for Anguilla this comes into effect on the 30th January 2005, with operations being permitted as of 4th Jan. with a temporary permit. If the operator is designated as a Local Carrier then it may fly to any state from Anguilla as opposed to originating from the base territory.
Gatvol
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: KLAS/TIST/FAJS/KFAI
Posts: 4,195
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BluePlume
Another little situation has popped up in the Islands. Looks like a War between the French and the U.S., and anyone else (Surprise). Has to do with Carriers transporting into St Barths. Seems the term "Cabotage"?? comes into the picture and the problem is you do it to us, we do it to you. Ciao..
For instance if we are to fly folks from St Marteen to St Barts. NOT, as it takes away work from French companies. However as a Helicopter company we can apply for a waiver as their are no French Helicopter Companies there........I think.
Another little situation has popped up in the Islands. Looks like a War between the French and the U.S., and anyone else (Surprise). Has to do with Carriers transporting into St Barths. Seems the term "Cabotage"?? comes into the picture and the problem is you do it to us, we do it to you. Ciao..
For instance if we are to fly folks from St Marteen to St Barts. NOT, as it takes away work from French companies. However as a Helicopter company we can apply for a waiver as their are no French Helicopter Companies there........I think.
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Body
Posts: 130
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi B sousa
Please check PM.
And of course I forgot to mention the fact that the Mayor of St. B also owns St. B Commuter so what do you think he's going to do?
Everything to protect his business interests.
Please check PM.
And of course I forgot to mention the fact that the Mayor of St. B also owns St. B Commuter so what do you think he's going to do?
Everything to protect his business interests.
Last edited by blueplume; 5th Jan 2005 at 15:44.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Here, there, anywhere
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
On the pint of CAA, overthrowing any FAA operations in the BVI, As holder of a UK JAR License, wich needs renewing, will I be able to do this in the BVI, I will I have to Fly back to UK.
Tried calling the CAA in Tortola, and got no answer.
Tried calling the CAA in Tortola, and got no answer.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Montsegur
Posts: 313
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Davidils
It is ASSI and not the CAA that has responsibilities in BVI. While ASSI is a subsidiary company of the CAA it has been established under Directions from the Secretary of State for Transport. Those Directions set out its role. As I understand it they have no remit to carry out any of the functions assigned to the CAA under the Air Navigation Order, such as the renewal of UK JAR licences.
The ASSI web site indicates that they are preparing Overseas Territories Aviation Requirements to support the requirements of the Air Navigation (Overseas Territories) Order. It will be those requirements (and not CAA or JAA requirements) that will apply in BVI.
It is ASSI and not the CAA that has responsibilities in BVI. While ASSI is a subsidiary company of the CAA it has been established under Directions from the Secretary of State for Transport. Those Directions set out its role. As I understand it they have no remit to carry out any of the functions assigned to the CAA under the Air Navigation Order, such as the renewal of UK JAR licences.
The ASSI web site indicates that they are preparing Overseas Territories Aviation Requirements to support the requirements of the Air Navigation (Overseas Territories) Order. It will be those requirements (and not CAA or JAA requirements) that will apply in BVI.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Canada
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Since you guys are chatting about BVI and other European OT's, I have a question. How hard is it to immigrate to a place like BVI for example if you have British citizenship? Could I go live there without any hassle, or would I have to jump through a lot of hoops?
I worked for a short period of time in Honduras, and we used to fly to Grand Cayman. I found out very quickly that getting a job there would be next to impossible.
I would appreciate anyone's insight.
I worked for a short period of time in Honduras, and we used to fly to Grand Cayman. I found out very quickly that getting a job there would be next to impossible.
I would appreciate anyone's insight.