Check out the latest 'AVIATOR' magazine

Quote:
" From Beavers to Boeings"

"This summer, Service air group inc. of Vancouver B.C., intends to lease three Boeing 747-200 cargo aircraft for worldwide freight operations. Targeting the freight market between North America and Asia, Service air group has lined up half a dozen confirmed destinations in the orient. The company also say's it eventually plans to extend service into South America. Crew hiring for Captains, First officers and flight engineers is currently underway as SAG seeks to train 10 crews to cover the first two aircraft, with the third aircraft on line as an operational backup by years end.

Owned by Jaeh Dillon, Service Air Group grew from his personal experience as a charter and commuter airline pilot over 23 years. In 1997 Dillon started a charter operation with two Beavers on floats, servicing the west coast. The company's fleet grew to include Fairchild Metro's, Beech king airs and beech 1900s. In August of 2002, all aircraft were either sold or returned to make way for the all jet cargo operation."

Doesn't sound like a startup to me. Sounds more like an expansion! Hope they go the distance.

well that certainly sounds like a more valid plan anyway!
I wish them luck, any good news re aviation in Canada these days is nice to see, I still wonder however, why train new crews, when there is an abundance of typed classic people, some still current, and most flying away from Canada ( Middle east, Europe).
I guess I could understand if they had actually interviewed any and found them unsuitable, or asking too much, etc, but I have to assume they have not, as none of the typed people who enquired have even received a call !
Anyway, Willie, I think your comments are probably stop on, the expectations will always eclipse the reality, and those of us who have been out of Canada for some time and miss it, may well be dissapointed if we return.
But it is easy to think otherwise when you are down route in the Middle east, Asia, etc!

Service Air
 

Just ask them who their financing is coming from...I think they have all the money they need - Elvis has it, Ogopogo is guarding it, the Smurfs are counting it and Peter Pan will be delivering it to them from the land of make believe.

Guys are going to get screwed paying for their own training when this guy falls through...again. That's a shame. Don't be pessimistic, just get all of the facts, and when you get to the bottom of the pile, you'll realize it stinks.

They do not have a 727 with their logo on it, they operated a Beaver on behalf of an American guy for a year - he owned it, not ServiceAir.

It is a great concept, and a sexy plan - unfortunately they don't have the money to do it, or the contracts. Believe me, Jag won't be the one who's 'out of pocket' when this thing tanks.

TellTheTruth

:mad: Ouch!!!

So, as someone "in-the-know", tell us how this so-called scheme works with Serviceair :confused:
I'd honestly like to know. Are they charging guys for their training like Jets-almost-Go-bust???

First of all, no one in Canada with or without the 'pockets' to operate an air cargo operation, has done much. Right?

ICC, ACS, Kewlona Flightcrap, Asses, Royal, Can't Air, who's-your-father??? ;)

But....eventually....odds are, someone is going to crack the Golden Egg. With or without YOUR approval. Right? Someone will find the 'key' that unlocks the secret to success. Right? Who's to say Serviceair will or won't be the one??? Who's to say KFC won't? First Air? Take yer pick, dude. :ok: AND, how the heck do you know where their financing is coming from??? B747-200 are cheap, cheap!! PLUS they are the perfect aeroplane for that kind of work. What are you thinking???

Have you checked out the market forecasts put out by both Boeing and Airbus??? Especially their Air Cargo market forecasts???
If not? Then you really haven't got much to say as far as who's going to do what in ADANAC until you read them.

Wait. Maybe you do have much to say, and we're listening, but I think you may be missing some additional information in your rush to judgement on the success of this OR any other start-up. :ooh:

Ambitious projects are just that. What WAS won't necessarily be the rule but rather the exception. Forgive me if I'm wrong but your post sounds an awful lot like 'sour grapes'. But you know what? Given the present state of the so-called 'industry' in the Great White North...you're entitled to it.

I'd suggest you let those who want to play the game....play the game. Wherever they get their bucks. Do we really care as drivers? No, not really. As long as we get a free type and some time on type to be marketable, who gives a f..k???

Pull your neck in. One of these outfits is long overdue for some success. Let's hope it's these guys. EH? :ok:

Be as blunt as you like my friend, but it looks to me from what I read and what I hear, they are a reality and will actually operate.

...and that's a good thing, whether we agree or disagree.

Willie

Hey Tellthetruth,
You sound like someone who got turned down - Little sore are we? Nobody said anything about a 727, And what do you know? Their crews are not paying for their training, It's covered by the company. They have to sign a contract saying that if they leave within two years they have to pay back whatever is left over. Don't know about you but that seems on par with most other companies out there, and if they have the right plan than noone has to worry about being out of work in 6 months as Willie is correct. The air cargo market is huge and growing every day!

Lets base things on facts shall we! If you don't have any then don't slam people for doing a good thing!

Willie:
I too would like to see it go, but this is a HUGE wait n see.
But regards 200F aircraft available, I am not so sure, the last ones that came up, were the ex Southern air GE powered 200`s, they got snapped up right away, even with the " low cargo capacity" Malaysian may be getting rid of the 200`s for 400`s, but that is not immediate, the Atlas ones in the desert are not available, as Atlas is on yet another rebound, the pratt powered 300`s are no longer available, the Lufthansa nose loaders, no longer on offer, and while you are apsolutely correct, 200`s are relatively cheap, the conversion is not, both in time and money.
The only ones that may be available are the ex AFX 200`s, but they may be starting again, under another name, or addition, and MK is also looking for more, so while the plan sounds semi OK, I guess time will tell.
as you say it`s been tried, no one has made it work on that end, it is a big step from operating a Beaver! I wonder just how much they know about the market / aircraft / crewing/ operation, and Transport would be all over this one from day one, just getting the manuals approved is a big job.
fun to watch though, if it turns a wheel.

Right now there are a number of 200F's available...

Kalitta is being liquidated as I understand and they are trying to get rid of theirs.. Atlas, I believe has surplus, and there are others...

Airplanes are not hard to find right now and the "PRICE IS RIGHT!!"

For to tell the truth... Come on, at least live up to your name... You obviously know nothing about the operation (727) and are just trying to slag this operation.. Maybe a little jealousy??? Let's be happy for someone who is trying to make things better in this country.. I've now met a couple guys who are there to start up the operation and they all seem happy.. One even quit a perfectly good job (flying for another airline)for this one so it must have some potential...

I hope it works out for everyone who's supported them, and those that have tried to slag the operation stay unemployed..

Phil

Gents

...another comment on this kind of operation...if I may:cool:

1) No shortage of pilots in CANADA.
2) No shortage of pilots with enough experience to fly the B747.
3) No difficulty getting an AOC these days.
4) No difficulty getting the B747 on your present AOC.
5) Investment Capital may be scarce, but 'cheap' where available for the right Business Plan. Not to mention interest rates.
6) Numerous pilots out here capable of putting SOPs, other documents, etc., together to recruit, train for and operate this equipment.
7) The Air Cargo industry in CANADA can use the heavy lift capacity (e.g., Cathay Pacific YYZ/YVR)
8) Many South American, Asian, and Southeast Asian carriers are in very deep do-do right now. What better time to make available the uplift capability to these outfits?
9) The reality IS...B747-200Fs are available. Not huge numbers of them, but certainly 3 or 4.
10) Cargolux, Atlas, Polar, Gemini and others are starting to rise out of the doldrums (according to Air Transport World) and the lead indicator of economic recovery is the airlines. The lead economic indicator for the airline industry is Air Freight.

Let's wait and see. :ok:

Phil Lister ????
 

Kalitta Air's 200's Liquidated ??? Where are You from??? I Know Kalitta and have NO Idea what your talking about or where you get your info from but, Connie is NOT getting rid of the 200's. As far as working back in Canada , I would love the opportunity to be based on the West Coast on the 74 but I think thats just a big dream. I sure hope that this Service Air thing goes but ,I'm very pessimistic about it at this time.

Kallita is not being 'liquidated', but I do know that at least some of their machines (747's) - or ones that were operated by them have been returned to leaser or sold. Maybe a 'trimming down' but I think IMO they are reorganizing to cut some costs and make a comeback.

Skyhawk 1
 

Well, Thats news to me cause they just had a class of 38 and two more classes are in the works before the years out. Thats because Connie keeps buying more 74's. Nasty Rumor goin' round folks.;)

Baahh...
 

OK, OK...

I see from reading people's responses that the dream is alive...that's great, and to 'tell the truth' I would love to see SAG actually pull a rabbit out of the hat. Unfortunately, I know too much and no longer share your illusions of grandeur.

I'll take the wait and see approach from here on in, and I'll refrain from saying 'I told you so'. Time for a long vacation...

And Bill...er, I mean Skyhawk1, I recommend doing your homework carefully, dig deep, and have fun while it lasts.

Now on the other hand
 

Latest Rumor, Atlas Air may be filing Bankruptcy.

My last thought?
 

A quote supplied by Skyhawk1:

"Owned by Jaeh Dillon, Service Air Group grew from his personal experience as a charter and commuter airline pilot over 23 years. In 1997 Dillon started a charter operation with two Beavers on floats, servicing the west coast. The company's fleet grew to include Fairchild Metro's, Beech king airs and beech 1900s. In August of 2002, all aircraft were either sold or returned to make way for the all jet cargo operation."

From what I hear, Dillon flew a 727 for Royal for about a week if at all, then was laid off, and started a cab / limo service. ServiceAir got a 703 so a couple U.S. guys could operate their airplanes in Canada to their cabins and back and write it off back home. They never had anything but a Beaver, no metro, no 1900's, no 200's, nada. In August, the U.S. guys decided not to renew, and Service Air was dead in the water, at which point he was riding the coat-tails of a couple other people looking for an OC to upgrade to a 705. Again - no joy.

Word is they don't want typed guys because they're using training bonds as operating capital. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiisky......I also heard that the 1 soft contract they had walked.

No sour grapes here - just don't want to see any more of us get pooched in this industry, I'm happy in the Middle East for now. It's a small small world...

But, we're all entitled to our opinions aren't we? I personally woudn't drive a cab for Service Air...oh wait, that went out of business already.

All I'm saying to those involved - dig deep, really deep, and ask a lot of questions - you may find that there are no real answers! :8

Tellthetruth,
Your post doesn't even deserve a response, but here it is. You are a complete moron. Even my buddy - who has worked for them for a while now and has a good idea of who you are says you have no clue about what your talking about. You get half facts and twist them into some sort of fabricated fantisy. All I can say is I can't wait for the day that I'm in the right seat laughing at you crying by the fence!

As for the people that are truly interested, I will let you all Know the "latest rumors" as my friend lets me know.

Fesmokie - I don't know exactly what is going on with connie - but my friend said that 2 74's that they were interested in were Kallita machines. 707ck and 708ck. And these machines were listed as sold not long ago. Maybe they were returned to the leaser and sold again? If it's true that Connie is adding to the fleet, This is a good upswing for the industry. Hope Kallita makes it!:D

I think you're confusing Kalitta and Kitty Hawk (easily done ;) ). The Kitty Hawk liquidator holds title to 3 -200Fs, N707/8/10CK.

Speednews listings offer 7 for sale (including 2 of the above) and 4 lease-only.

Ouch!
 

I guess we're all entitled to our opinions, as long as they're the same as Bill's...I mean Skyhawk's.

I truly, genuinely hope that you end up in the right seat of a ServiceAir machine, I just have my doubts that it will be in the right seat of an aircraft, more likely the right seat of a cab.

Shouldn't Service Air be taking delivery of these aircraft pretty soon if they plan to be operating in July? I mean seeing as it's July 07...

If you think I only have half facts - then I invite you to enlighten us with the full facts, not the fantasies or rumours.

In the meantime, I'll be at FL350 in my Airbus. Good luck!

To tell the truth,

Well, we can't all be flight attendants (like you) so I guess the rest of us will just have to look up to you with awe...

Your arrogance is totally unwanted here... If you don't like what you see don't look.. If not put a valid point on the board.. Your heresay and conjecture doesn't hold a lot of water with the rest of us.. If you can prove something, well, do it..... Other than that just be happy for the people who are doing there thing where they want to (Canada), and enjoy the desert...

Phil

Oh Phil...
 

OK, point taken Phil, and fair enough - the lemmings are not to be deterred. Perhaps I'm wrong about ServiceAir - Perhaps I'll win the PowerBall this weekend...the chances of both are in the same realm as far as I'm concerned.

I'll leave everyone to their own opinions, but if you have taken nothing else from my posts, take this - walk in with your eyes wide open, and don't quit your day job and move to YVR until there's a cheque in the bank for you.

I would just hate to see a bunch of guys who are understandably excited about the prospect get screwed. We've all seen it too many times over the past few years.

I'm not prepared to 'lay it all on the table' at this point, but I will graciously accept any 'you were right' emails when the chips fall.

Now, please fasten your seat belt and put your tray tables in the upright position - it's going to be a bumpy ride.

Comfy?
 

How's the right seat feel Bill? I assume as it's almost August that you've already hit V1...

Or are there more 'little problems'?