Originally Posted by Winnie (Post 11955958)

CanShield Aviation in Winnipeg.

Originally Posted by +TSRA (Post 11955314)

I agree that ab initio pilot training in Canada requires an overhaul. Our system was seemingly designed for what I would call ritualistic progression. That is the traditional PPL, CPL, Instructor, Bush, and Airlines route. It made sense that a Class 4 would be supervised because there was enough movement through the system that you could all but guarantee the supervision time would be short-lived. That has been disrupted for a myriad of reasons, not least of which is that not enough people want to be pilots. The last stat I remember seeing was that 250 CPLs had been issued in one year, the vast majority of those moving back to Asia. Those are not great numbers considering that, combined, WestJet and Air Canada need somewhere between 500 to 1000 pilots next year. You also now have pilots bypassing the Instructor and Bush component of the industry and coming straight to the airlines. We are seeing the effect where new hire pilots at the airlines don't have the knowledge or skill that our training industry would have developed through that traditional route. Ergo, if this is to continue, we as an industry need to push for TC to update the ab initio training profile. Having also completed by training in two countries, I'm biased to say that I found the New Zealand system far superior to the Canadian one, and the NZ system is loosely based of the European way of doing things. If I was head of TC, that's what I would do - copy the kiwi way of doing licenses and call it a day. Granted, the C-Cat still requires supervision, but I found it less cumbersome.

Also, in another post you talk about poor pilot pay when starting out, and I agree, it's abysmal. In the next few posts, you compare pilots to doctors, lawyers, and paramedics. I'm going to play The Devil's Advocate here: Pilots receive a high wage at the airlines and other parts of the industry not because of our education and experience, but because of the responsibility of carrying so many people. Sure, education and experience plays a part, I'd not compare my flying education to that of a doctor or lawyer. A quick google search shows paramedics require 60 weeks of instruction, or roughly speaking, 2,100 hours of instruction. An MBA requires somewhere around 1,500 hours of study and instruction. The CPL can be taken at 200 hours, meaning that at 600 hours flying time, you have, at best, 780-800 hours of ground training and flight experience, the majority of that not being formal education in a classroom setting. Our education is simply not in the same ballpark. We have a fancy drivers license, that's it. I don't say that to demean our profession, and I cop a lot of flack when I say this, but comparing your starting pay to that of someone who spent double the amount of time receiving an education is flawed. Yes, I believe pilots should be paid a fair wage, but let's at least be honest about our place in the amount of education received for pay earned.

However, all this talk does not help your current predicament. You need a job and you need a job in the current climate, not a future one we may aspire to. Is it hard? Yes. Is it impossible? No. To give an answer to this:



No, you do not have to get divorced. I successfully came through the industry married with a young child. I made the move to Yellowknife and down to Calgary, all with wife and kid in tow because it was either move them around, or not have a career. Was it a struggle? Yes. Do I wish I could have sat at home and have the airline job come to me like some of the junior pilots do now? Yes. But that's not how the industry works in the long-term. And you are not the only pilot to face this issue. I came up through the ranks with many pilots who had a wife and kids. It's not unique. Each of us had to accept the sacrifice. That's not me saying "I did it, so must you", but rather, that's what the industry requires, so either accept it or don't. Yes, it's a lot to ask. And yes, not all marriages make it. It is a huge risk, and it is certainly made worse when you are more established in life than a 20 year old. But, this is part and parcel of the industry you've chosen to enter. It's not fair, it spits out its young, and it's cruel beyond any measure. Yet, I wouldn't have changed a thing in my career.

I strongly suggest you put the energy you have back into finding a job. Find ways of making yourself more attractive as a Class 4. Get a multi-job and build that time so you could become a quick transfer to Group 1 instrument training. Get a float rating if you don't already have it. Get your aerobatic ticket. I am going to be very frank here, the worst thing you can do is continue to sulk about the injustices you believe have been done to you. You are simply going to have to accept that you have to find a way to make this work, or you have to go do something else.

Everyone in this industry has had moments like you are facing now. Some early in their career, some later. Those still flying found a path, even if it was a rough and winding road. Those that are not flying gave up and blamed the industry.

It's your choice which path you will go down. So get at it, or don't.

Originally Posted by Pilot DAR (Post 11958075)

I have no experience with the FAA system, so cannot comment (though they did fill my request for a PPL in 1978). If you have the opportunity to continue your flying there, perhaps you'd feel more comfortable with their system. If you choose ('cause it is a choice for you) to continue your flying career in Canada, for better or worse, we have a system, and it's what you'll have to use. If you don't feel it is entirely to your liking, Transport Canada has paths by which your can comment - I have. I have had exam questions changed in the flight training department, along with much more comprehensive changes to standards and regulations in the Airworthiness department.



Yes, that all does sound very close to minimum. I hope that you'll continue to advance your experience and flying skills, and one day you may (as I have) begin to be genuinely nervous about training someone with minimum experience, particularly on type, then sending them solo. I once did begin to check a fellow out in his new (to him) Bellanca Viking when I was low time in it. His greatest skill to apply to flying it could not meet my expectations, so the training was not completed between us. In hind sight, and the more I age, the more comfortable I was with that decision. Had I signed him off, I would have felt terribly responsible if he'd had an accident in it. that has not been the only time in my career as an instructor on type, where I have declined to continue training to signoff.

I have largely given up training other pilots, I know either too little, or too much, to be comfortable sending some pilots solo. Very little of the training I did was supervised (it was all advanced type training, not ab initio), so I rarely had a mentor to reflect my observations about the candidate's progress. I could spend ten to twenty hours dual, and still think about all the things which I had not conveyed to the candidate yet, how could I compress it, and expose them to everything I thought that they should know. Perhaps if I had less experience, I could feel more comfortable training, but that ship has sailed for me. My best training experience was more than 75 hours flying together spread over three years, one of my most proud training achievements. he has recently aged out of flying after 12 years, and sold the plane with more than 600 safe hours PIC in it.

My one instructor mentor, who's opinion I value greatly, reads here, so likely will be considering this thread. I hope that you will find the opportunity you're looking for... When your are getting close, wow them with your enthusiasm, and eagerness to share your knowledge to the benefit of others. Certainly mention your role as a Paramedic trainer (another role I have endless respect for, having been a volunteer firefighter here for 28 years). Having taken formal firefighting instructor courses, I can say that the instructor course for whatever discipline, when overlayed to another course of study, still has great value!

Originally Posted by Pilot DAR (Post 11958377)

Fair enough. What you can imagine is not available to you, don't torture yourself about it, work with what you've got.

I have flown all over the world (including 48 of the states). That opportunity to see the world has made me feel the most lucky of people that I was born in Canada. The freedom that we have here to plot and execute our own success in general is really good in the context of much of the world - being a pilot in particular! So many countries I have visited, private aviation hardly exists at all, and for what it does, it's profoundly expensive and difficult, and there's hardly anywhere to go. Our freedom to fly here in Canada is amazing!

So plot your path to pilot advancement, and circulate among the people of our industry - it's the connections which make it work! I have worked in aviation my entire life, and I have never applied for a job! And remind yourself that the people who hire most like to surround themselves with positive people who are focused on their job to be done, and advancing their own skills and experience safely. Being in someone's office for a job interview, and explaining why you prefer the system of another nation, is probably not going to work to your benefit!

Originally Posted by Pilot DAR (Post 11958615)

Wise. That said, if you elect to become an instructor in Canada, you are joining a team, a training team - in Canada - with Canadian methods and standards. You owe it to both your employer, and your students to behave with the spirit of a team member. Use the tools you have been given and genuinely do your best with them. Don't train an eager student, all the while cursing under your breath that you'd rather be..... No one is demanding your joining the training team, so if you elect to, be a team member, through and through. If you can do that, we have heard the last of your disdain for the Canadian system.



Sure, it usually does - good job!



Horsefeathers. Aside from needing certain geographical/topographical features for training, otherwise, the locale of the instructor does not make the training better or worse - the instructor skill does. If you think that the capability of Canadian instructors is lacking, you're flying with the wrong Canadians. Every nation can offer great pilots/instructors, and mediocre pilots/instructors - it's up to you to figure out who is who! Certainly, I've been asked to provide advanced training to "pilots" who have met the licensing requirements. I guess that they met those requirement - they have the license - but they did not meet my requirements of skill for the advanced training they sought. If they can't keep a 172 within five feet of the centerline, I'm not eager to do tailwheel or water training with them - but they met the standard for a PPL on the type that they were examined in.

Sure, I think that the standards which were used to find some pilots to be satisfactory during examination were weak. I'd like to see tighter standards, and more training, from higher skill instructors for all students. Will that help our industry? Maybe/maybe not. If we make the standards so high that low experience instructors cannot succeed in preparing most students to pass in the time allotted/practical time, have we helped? Be careful what you ask for, if the Canadian training standards were raised (to where I'd be happy to see them), would you have the skill and experience to train to them? Would you want to lose one third of your students because they simply gave up? Could you be truly happy with yourself if your student consistently met a standard which was considered "satisfactory" in Canada, and they all passed their exams?

Again, if you would like to be taken seriously about piloting on a Canadian forum on the internet, or at a Canadian flying school, you're going to have to demonstrate that you can embrace the Canadian system as it is, for better or worse. Make your students so genuinely eager that they seek out the extra training that both you, and I, think that they should have. To do that, lead them to embrace the basics first, by your example....

Originally Posted by Pilot DAR (Post 11958868)

Two things: Are they as much your students, as they are the student of the flight training unit? "I can..." strays from what the FTU would see as your training their client to the FTU's and Transport Canada's standards. You're seeking employment to provide a service, and at the outset highlighting how you wish to/propose to do it differently. A Chief Flying Instructor considers this, rolls their eyes, and thinks to themselves another ace sitting across from me, who's actions I could have to explain to someone one day, next... Sure, having extra training and skill, as always better. Knowing when to keep it in your back pocket for emergency use only is great!And...

"Knowing the exercise" is one thing, having the skill to safely exit an exceedance from it may be another. I've seen many pilots enter a situation from which recovery within the airplane limits was in question - and I have taken control a few times.

The three maneuvers your highlight have training merit for advanced flight instruction in accordance with prescribed standards. They may be classified as "aerobatic" in Canada, and thus are not a part of primary flight training. It is not a good look for you that the prime focus of what you present is your dislike for following the prescribed standards under which an FTU you might like to work for is required to teach. Why not just behave like a team member who they would like to hire? If you sat across my desk looking for a pilot job, I'd be thinking twice about what you would be doing with my airplane when I sent you to fly it, let alone what a student would be experiencing.

I agree that PPL flying instruction and curriculum in Canada is an entry point. It is adequate, and produces safe PPL's who are then very much encouraged to go for advanced training. Step by step.... Show the potential employer (the purpose of this thread, right?) that you would like to follow those steps, not jump rock to rock across the river!