So let me see if I have this right.
-Your group is jilted by the (OAC) ACPA types when they reneged on a binding arbitration they themselves insisted on.
-Your group inititiated a legal complaint to address said misbehavour.
-During the course of the legal procedings your group offered to let the widows, children and estates of the (deceased) guys you have a beef with off the hook.
-The ACPA refuses to let them be excluded from the proceedings despite your most generous offer.
-Then this J.O. guy then says you guys are the lowest form of humanity!!!!?????:confused:
For some reason or other this guy is spring loaded to hate you fellas regardless of how appalling stupid his comments make him look.
Oh well. Some guys just seem to equate the size of their airplanes to their own sense of self righteousness I guess,,, too bad.

Yes RussD you have got it right, I imagine j.o. is a large watch type

-During the course of the legal procedings your group offered to let the widows, children and estates of the (deceased) guys you have a beef with off the hook.
-The ACPA refuses to let them be excluded from the proceedings despite your most generous offer.
Man you guys are nice.....I mean WOW really and truly!!!! I totaly don't get what the problem is....
Oh wait a sec maybe this is only one side of the story....maybe there is more to it....na that can't be it....never mind.
What year was it when all this happened???? 1989 -1995 Well at least your making good time. :ugh: :mad:

Brucey and Bengali
... you are both a couple of pudknockers. Thanks for hi-jacking the thread...
In the matter of AC Regional Carrier pilots wanting to sit in Air Canada metal at their regional date of hire and all that very Canadian "gimme gimme gimme what you got" stuff... it is evident that Canada has become a nation of soft thinking, entitlement oriented pretenders. What gall. :=
OAC guys, I hope you get out from under the yoke of these weinerheads trying to use the legal system to wrangle your jobs away from you.
What a disgrace.
Mr/Mrs/Ms/Miss Moderator - please shut this thread down. :oh: I've contacted an old friend at AC and have the answer I was seeking anyway.
... and yes, unfortunately, it looks like there will indeed be a downbid this fall. :bored:

Chevy,- if you want both sides of the story then look up Berry vs Puilley in the SCC of Canada, and yes Canadian justice is slow.

Slipstream-if you cannot see the damage done by the oac's thats being upheld by the courts in this country then your as stupid as the day is long. Jazz is hiring and ac is downbidding as you claim..................figure it out, hope you do get to ac, but untill the present whipsawing between the two groups is fixed it will not be that lucrative as others companys.

We have these ACPA boys right where we want them. We cannot lose. We will succeed. The fact that no one else in the labour movement, airline industry, or CIRB agrees with us will not deter us from our mission of stealing estates from widows and children.

http://www.welovetheiraqiinformation...7-minister.jpg

funny how the courts agree with us,........... acpa was unsuccessful in having the lawsuit thrown out, as we head for trial

exbengal wrote:

"funny how the courts agree with us,........... acpa was unsuccessful in having the lawsuit thrown out, as we head for trial".


Semantics bengal, semantics. All the court said was that your case was dismissed under contract law, but you may proceed with the case under tort law. Now you have to prove your case under tort law. Under tort law, you must show that you have been harmed.

Have you been harmed? I would suggest no. Hollis Harris, CEO of Air Canada at the time of Picher, said that he didn't care if CALPA merged the seniority list or not. He wasn't going to recognize any merged list. ACPA agreed and decided not to advance any merged seniority list during contract negotiations.

In a nutshell, Air Canada wasn't going to recognize any merged seniority lists. They determined that mainline and the connectors to be separate airlines (and still do).

Nothing was taken away from you. Air Canada wasn't going to allow you to fly it's aircraft unless you applied like everyone else and even then you would be put at the bottom of the list.

Therefore exbengal, the Picher list would never have been implemented, even if ACPA had agreed to it.

One last item that I think will torpedo your case is that the Supreme Court said that you had several avenues through the CIRB to grieve your case but you chose not to pursue them. That would have been the proper route. Grieve your case at the CIRB, and if you are still not satisfied, then go to court. I believe that bypassing the CIRB will hurt your case.

There you have it Bengal. Everyone so far has disagreed with you. ACPA, ALPA, Hollis Harris, Air Canada, most of your co-workers, and so far the Supreme Court. This is your final Hail Mary attempt at getting some money to compensate you for a position that you weren't going to get anyway.

You have NOT been harmed.

Beagle, if you read the evidence thats been entered...........amongst others,
A letter from H Harris stating that he doesn't care if there is one list, but they want the companies SEPERATE, that he signed before Picher, then in court under oath, after Picher (7 years later) he changes his mind, (good witness).
A letter from the company stating the same.
The onous was on the ac mec to present the merged list to the company, unions uphold seniority lists not H.H. or companys.
As far as torpedoing our case you blew that infront of the S.C.C. its alive and well. When you renegged on binding arbitration it became a civil matter, not one for the CIRB, ask your company what happened when they renegged on binding arbitration on the sale of A.O. to the Deluce family, AC paid dearly.
Binding arbitration Beagle. Hence Tort. The Supreme Court of Canada paved the way for us on that one........hardly a disagreement eh Beagle.
Hope you didn't sign your solidarity agreement, but you probably did, looks like Pulley and Dean are going to drag you down with them.

Sorry Bengal, but Hollis Harris pretty much slammed the door on any case you claim to have.

The essence of his testimony was that regardless of any position taken by Air Canada Pilots on Implementation of Picher:
https://secure.acpa.ca/images/gold_bul2.gif he would never have agreed to a pilot seniority merger where the operations themselves were not being merged;
https://secure.acpa.ca/images/gold_bul2.gif it was his personal view that any seniority merger which puts any regional pilot ahead of any mainline pilot would be unacceptably unfair; and
https://secure.acpa.ca/images/gold_bul2.gif therefore, he opposed and would not have agreed to implement any seniority merger between Air Canada and regional pilots under the Picher award.

Also unions only uphold seniority lists within the same company. Air Canada and the regionals were separate companies. According to your logic all Star Alliance pilots should be under one seniority list.

Your beef could very well be with CALPA and not the Air Canada pilots. CALPA was the organization that let you down. When the Air Canada MEC refused to advance the Picher list at contract talks, CALPA could have disciplined them according to CALPA policy. CALPA chose not to discipline the Air Canada pilots. If you are sueing anyone it should be CALPA for not following its own policy.

In the end Bengal, you will have at least another 2 years to stew over this matter and give yourself more ulcers. For me? I sleep well at night knowing that I have earned my position and the perks that go with it. I also enjoy flying with your former First Officers that came to Air Canada through the front door.

We should know the final outcome in a couple of years (at the earliest). I am aware that your opinion will not change even after the Supreme Court makes its decision. I doubt that my opinion will change either. I will not debate the issue here further as I believe all that can be said, has been said. If you care to respond, I will give you the last word.

exbengal... "hope [I] get to AC"?

I retired from AC you bonehead... but you little regional pricks piss me off. You weren't ever welcome in my jumpseat...

slipstream, sorry for pissing you off, hope I'm not sueing you (sounds like I am), oh well.............your still welcome in my j/s anytime.

beagle.............read the last from the SCC, union members that cause harm to other union members can be held liable, as I said Pulley and Dean covered their asses by suckering you and about 1600 others into signing the solidarity document (hopefully slipstream too) so with your name on that I'm sure your sleeping well at night.

Thanks for the last word

Hey Kingo. Just how did I end up hijacking the thread? I responded with facts regarding the topic. Some other guy jumped in with something about a lawsuit and the rest is history. Sorry pal, not this time.

Well exbengal and RussD, it's unfortunate that you are incapable of reading what people actually say. I did not EVER comment on the merits of the lawsuit. I ONLY commented on the legitimacy of the rants I've heard for years that you would gladly punish the innocent wives and children of your adversaries, if that's what it took to get your pound of flesh.

God forbid, but should you ever perish in an aircraft accident where you were found to be at fault, how would you feel when the victims lawyers went after your wives and children for their pound of flesh when, like the AC families in your case, yours' had no hand in what actually took place? If you honestly feel that would be okay, then I suggest you speak to your union immediately to ensure that they will pick up the tab.

Implication of a down bid
 

Sorry to get back to the original thread but what's the impilcation of a down bid ?
Why would they do that if the company is still hiring ?

As for the comments so far from some of you....I do not understand all the issues but for the sake of human kind, you have a good job with a stable company, nice aircraft, extremely good schedual and ( except the first year or so) very good money and package and you work in your country....I suggest you take some time to think about it before starting insulting each other and look around you and appreciate what you have....By your comments I can clearly see you never lost your job or had to writte your resume many times ......Accept and move foward..:ok:

A down bid can mean any net reduction in the total number of current positions. Right now there are many vacant unfilled positions.

If they remove a few A320's and add some EMJ's, it might mean a net reduction, but there is still a need to hire for all the unbid positions.

Basically there is no chance of a layoff for anyone.

Lost in Saigon,
I do not work for AC ( or any company in Canada) so that's why I was asking. Thanks for your answer and explanations. :)

I love your attitude slipstream, a week later and I'm still laughing at you, your in retirement and still pissed at us..............................I guess the lawsuit really is WORKING.

I’ve seen people that carry monkeys on their back. Some of them couldn’t keep their medicals long enough to reach retirement. Perhaps the last laugh may be on you..