Air Canada Goes Boeing
 

AC has finally announced its widebody order.



Air Canada Order

A total of 18 777s of various types, plus 18 options, and 14 787s with 46 options. The latter to replace, eventually, the 767s.

Probably not a good day to be in an Airbus board room...

Mike

This essentially creates two airlines. One being the domestic with its fleet of airbusses and embraers and the overseas one with its boeings. RM has been wrong so many times before. He may have done it again.

Right now AC has 20 A330/340's that fly overseas.

Is there some plan to replace these with Boeings?

The A330s and A340s (both 343 and 345) will eventually all be replaced with 777-300ER and 777-200LR. The 767 fleet, some over 20 years old, will be replaced by 787s, with short term capacity needs being shouldered by "newer" 767s being brought in from KLM and Kenyan.

There are a number of press releases out there which discuss the reasoning behind the choice - suggest going to

www.achorizons.ca to check out the full story.

Just another gift to the original cp gang me thinks. OAC people still hoping to regain some seniority ground. This is the country we live in.

Funny. The thought about a CP pandering exercise crossed my head too...

Better get my ass in gear and see about those Triple 7s on the next bid:uhoh:

GIMME!:ok: . Groundschools starting up soon, I hope!

Beechnut - according to someone I know in ACPA interviews summer-time for 160-75 new hires - I've also heard 150 as the number.

On-line applications to the new Boeing outfit....:O

Good luck!

Did anyone seriously (I mean this) think Boeing weren't going to win?

Love to hear from anyone who did and why.

I hope Bob M got an extra discount for prefacing the A380 first flight so nicely, rather than announcing in June as previously advised.

MarkD

No, most thought Boeing was going to win.

No-one here thought the dynamics or benefits of the A350 were anywhere near as good as the 787. We need the 787 sooner than 2010, but obviously the financial status of ACE meant we had to dither, hence the reason why we'll take over leases on ex-KLM and Kenyan 76s in the run-up to 787 introduction, amongst others.

As an aside, the 76s are tired, and in terms of configuration and commonality a bit of a nightmare. They are also not exactly the best equipment for YYZ-LHR, CDG - capacity being an issue, and not as "tasty" as the Speedbird Triple 7s doing the Pond Hop. They were good in their day of course.

As far as 777-300ER and 777-200LR are concerned - that surprized some in that they thought we'd stick with A345 and take A346 - the higher weight flavour - but, it seems the operating economics of the Triple 7, based on the current and emerging route structure, and the early horrors of the 345, and the unpopular 343 (look at the mess it made of YYZ-DEL "nonstop") helped seal that part of the deal.

Additionally, I've personally heard the Boeing T+Cs were extremely lucrative, from the 767 placement all the way through to the terms for the new aircraft...

I'll sniff around for other snippets...

PS Air India also went the Triple 7 and B787 path, with 2 wins about to be announced...

Inuksuk

All you said makes sense. The freighter 777 was a help too I suspect - the Globe article lauding the MD11 operation the day before the order seemed less than a coincidence. I hear talk of wingleting some 767s too?

Have been on BA 777 YUL-LHR but didn't like the back row - seat doesn't recline, bad news at 6'2" :D That's the last time I meekly accept being shoved back 14 rows at the gate :(

As for the "CP stitch-up" :uhoh: :hmm: let's be moving on eh?

Yep. you're right MarkD. I forgot about the winglets, which are on order. Icelandair is doing the same with its 757 fleet...

Boeing of course making it an attractive retrofit in terms of $.

I find it quite odd that Air Canada has picked the 787. Its just a paper airplane right now. Where are the guarantees that it will be so inexpensive to operate?

I think someone at Boeing greased some big wheels at Air Canada.

STC

The A350-800 AND -900 are also paper aircraft. The 777 is at least in service. So advantage Boeing?

Analyse the AC requirement and come back to us when you can demonstrate how Airbus could replace the WB more effectively than Boeing, and why AC should give them the benefit of the doubt when having operated the A345 to their apparent disadvantage.

Any airline choosing a new aircraft will have performance guarantees in the contract. This includes range, weight, speeds, fuel burn etc etc....

A350 service date is 2010 I think, the 787 goes into service before, although the 787 doesn't come to AC before 2010 - so at least it will be in service and glitches ironed out - as there always are when a new type enters revenue service, no matter the exhaustive testing.

Don't know how many A350s have been ordered...but I think it's miniscule compared to the momentum 787 has gotten right now. If the A350 doesn't yield more orders, one might assume the programme might even be canceled - not the first time it's happened.

Comments anyone ?

MarkD,

From what I know of the 787, its not just the performance numbers airlines should be weary of.

The 787 introduces many exotic building techniques and materials. There will be a huge learning curve involved in maintaining these beasts.

I find it odd that an airline like AC that is barely surviving as it is, would be so anxious to be the guinea pig for Boeing on this airplane.

STC, fair enough, but they would still have some inservice issues with the 350. 787 is going to have a lot of guinea pigs unlike the A345.

At the end of the day, Bob Milton wanted a two-supplier airline and now he's got it. Roll on Airbus' 320 successor and let's see if he still wants one by then!

Boeing and AC reach agreement:
http://www.cbc.ca/story/business/nat...an-051109.html

18 777 (starting March 07) + 18 options
14 787 (starting 2010) + 46 options

Northwest Airlines is one of the earliest to recieve the 787 in 2008. If they can not get their house in order, perhaps their airplanes might become "available"...

Boeing 787: 140 plus 14 = 154

http://active.boeing.com/commercial/orders/index.cfm

Airbus A350: 143

http://v4.airbus.com/en/presscentre/...5_eurofly.html