510,


Thanks for all the info, it's great.

I just wanted to clarify this letter thing. Are you saying that I would be able to get a Commercial license by just doing the exams, handing in my log book and paying some cash? What about the instrument rating?

I know that you have to do a type rating to have your ATR signed off, and if you still need to do a commercial and instrument rating, wouldn't it be cheaper to just rent a Jetstream sim?

All I know is I am quitting my job in 3 months and diving into the deep end.

jumpy
 

We are talking 2 different things jumpy. I am talking the exemp. for needing to take the entire ground school instead of self study. You are talking getting out of all the exams...

As far as the price goes it took me 7000 sterling all in that included my Multi ride (school instructor) Commercial ride (school examiner) IR (caa examiner). You can take all the paperwork down at once to the caa total cost was 200 sterling and was issued my radio licence, commerical licence, and my ir...

let me know when you are over I am down in the gatwick area quite a bit as I have a buddy that is canadian that lives 10 min from the testing centre in gatwick...

any questions or if you want to have a brew let me know


510

COOL

about the jetstream sim, if there is one over here then yes easier to do it that way, read my post on first page regarding sims... for the commercial if you dont use a sim you still have to do all the exams and then do a commercial, multi, ifr ride.......once completed then hand in paperwork to caa


..

PS ANY OTHER INFO CAN BE OBTAINED ON THE CAA WEBSITE AND LOOKING AT LASORS

http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/LASORS.PDF

FAB

AIRBUS TIME

as far as i know you can just do your ride in the airbus sim as long as you have the 500 hours.....but you will have to do distance learning for the groundschool before writing the exams, you wont get any exemptions

D1.4 JAR-FCL CPL(A)SKILL TEST
REQUIREMENTS
An applicant for a JAR-FCL CPL(A) is required to:
1. Pass the CPL Skill Test with a CAA Flight
Examiner.
• The Skill Test can be completed on either a
single-engine or multi-engine aeroplane. For
the purpose of licence issue the skill test will
remain valid for 12 months.
• Before undertaking the Skill Test, the applicant
shall have passed the associated theoretical
knowledge examination (exceptions may be
made by the CAA for applicants undergoing a
course of integrated flying training), and
completed all of the related flying training
2. Pass the Instrument Rating Skill Test with a
CAA Flight Examiner.
• Applies only to CPL(A)/IR and ATPL(A)
Integrated course candidates.
• The IR(A) Skill Test must be completed on a
multi-engine aeroplane.
• Before undertaking the Skill Test, the applicant
shall have passed the associated theoretical
knowledge examination (exceptions may be
made by the CAA for applicants undergoing a
course of integrated flying training) and
completed all of the related flying training.
DETAILS OF THE CPL(A) SKILL TEST
REQUIREMENTS ARE DETAILED IN APPENDICES
1 AND 2 TO JAR-FCL 1.170
DETAILS OF THE IR(A) SKILL TEST
REQUIREMENTS ARE DETAILED IN APPENDICES
1 AND 2 TO JAR-FCL 1.210
D1.5 CONVERSION OF A NON-JAA
PROFESSIONAL LICENCE TO A
JAR-FCL CPL(A)
A licence issued by a non-JAA State may be
converted to a JAR-FCL licence provided that an
arrangement exists between the JAA and the
non-JAA State. This arrangement shall be
established on the basis of reciprocity of licence
acceptance and shall ensure that an equivalent
level of safety exists between the training and
testing requirements of the JAA and non-JAA
State. Until such arrangements exist, the following
requirements have been agreed by the JAA and are
now incorporated in JAR-FCL 1, paragraph 1.016.
NON-JAA CPL(A) Licence
The holder of a current and valid CPL(A) issued in
accordance with ICAO Annex 1 by a non-JAA State
may be issued with a JAR-FCL CPL(A) providing the
experience requirements of JAR-FCL 1.155(b) and
(c) have been met. Applicants must:
• Hold a valid JAR-FCL Class 1 medical
certificate.
• Undertake CPL(A) theoretical knowledge
instruction as determined by the Head of
Training of an approved training provider and
pass ALL of the JAR-FCL theoretical
knowledge examinations at CPL(A) level.
Applicants who wish to attempt examinations
at a higher level (i.e. ATPL(A) level) must
undertake the full 650 hour course of approved
theoretical knowledge instruction and pass
ALL of the JAR-FCL theoretical knowledge
examinations at ATPL(A) level.
• Undertake flying training as determined by the
Head of Training of a FTO approved to conduct
CPL(A) modular flying training courses,
sufficient to obtain the pre-entry Form 170A (to
include 5 hours on a complex aeroplane type if
this requirement has not been previously
satisfied) and pass the CPL(A) skill test (in
accordance with Appendices 1 and 2 to
JAR-FCL 1.170) with a CAA Flight Examiner.

Amen to that FFP - I'm off to Canada in July! :=

C130 Dreamer,

Jealous. Very Jealous. Good luck with the move and all the best. Let us know how you get on. Have to wait a few years till I go . . . .

My two pence,

You may have trouble buying a house in the UK (which I find hard to believe) but try buying one in Calgary working for Westjet (Canada's Easy/Ryan) flying a nice shiny new 737-700 taking home around £1100 pounds a month. Air Canada may be looking for 500 new pilots in the next 2-3 years but there are 5000+ applicants who meet the requirements. Keep in mind they have not hired since 1998-99. Catch my drift?

I came to the UK 18 months ago and have not looked back. My salary went through the roof and I have been checked out on equipment here (left and right seat) that I would have waited years for at home. Over a 15-25 year time period I will come out miles ahead. Yes I will go back but when the house here is paid off, I have padded up a nice pension and the kids are ready to go to uni. Then we sell all, pack up and go back. Fly part time or work for Transport Canada and relax....

Sorry to put out the go to Canada fire but I thought long and hard about it (along with other guys from home) and made the move. All chaps I know that did admit they did it once and would do it again.

I wish all well that go to Canada and say good luck. The market is VERY TOUGH. The weather in winter is nothing like the UK (except Vancouver) which by the way don't even bother thinking you will get a good gig there as all the locals want YVR because of the very reason you do! Houses in the city average 500k+ as well. Any of this registering?

Get a job with a major or large charter operator in the UK. Enjoy the job, save your money and move to Canada a finacially secure and semi retired happy person!!! Then you can enjoy the wonders of the great white nord........

Good luck!!

P.S. Any comments from Canucks here in England welcome!

Lived in both UK and Canada. Flown in both UK and Canada.

Canada wins hands down in my opinion.

My 4 bed detached house with swimming pool in Ontario is the same price as a one bed flat in Oxfordshire. No brainer really.

Maybe my situation is different as I will start receiving a military pension at 38 of about £12,000 a year ($25,000 or so CDN).

As for Air Canada etc, not really appealing to me. Flying long haul at the moment and to be honest, I'd rather be instructing and come home every night to the family. Again, each to their own.

The old saying "The grass is always greener on the other side" certainly holds true. But at least there is grass over in Canada (for some months of the year;) )

Each to their own. But in my opinion, the UK has gone downhill over the last 5 - 10 yrs.

I can't argue with you in all respects. The industry may have slid here in England but the same has happend in Canada. Your pension from the RAF is a big bonus and would help. If someone were to leave the UK with equity in a house here, buy in Canada and have a small mortgage etc then yes it could be a good move. My comments were more directed at the less experienced types and those who owed some silly amount of £££ fro their licence. Easier to start here and go there later in life....

I started in Canada and am now in the UK. Lifestyle better in Canada I suppose but the job prospects are not good. Sterling is a good currency to make and save. I will come home but being 30 now I have some work to do first.

Again all the canucks I know who fly in England (From 1 year up to 15) all say that the move they made was for the best. I agree but as you say each to his own.

Enjoy southern ontario! Do yourself a favour and move to BC! That is Canada!

jobs in canada
 

Canada is a great place, and great for raising children......

all the best to the guys that are moving over that way......

but no matter what the locals tell you after hearing your accent, yellow snow is not good for you...

510

Heh 510.....

How long you been here in England? I agree that Canada is a great place. Plus the kid thing is dead right. But we all have friends struggling in Canada with aviation so that one is clear. A tough market no matter how good things get.

You planning on staying? Enjoy the european corporate thing?

I'm glad I came over.......Can always go home and will one day.

Cheers..

Yellow snow is ok if someone spilled their beeeeeeer...........

av8
 

Been here a year now, was corporate in canada and now that all the conversion stuff is complete I am looking for work....I am up north just outside of manchester, moved from vancouver.

Lots of buddies struggling over there in canada, and they all said if they could they would be moving this way, but no right of abode so they have to make do//

510

not looking for work any more ;)

Well...............

I left Canada when I was 26.

In the UK.........B757 Capt when i was 30. Im 36 now. Manchester based 767 Capt.

Good luck to anyone coming to the UK. A bit of luck and youll be sitting pretty in a few years.

Dont let anyone put you off, its not about the cost of a burger.

Yes Canada's 'nice'. Im as much Canadian as I am British. Im not talking countries Im talking careers!

HOWEVER, as long as guys are willing to pay for their own type ratings, fly for free, parker pen their experience, and be desperate enough to work for companies like Jetsgo, the UK is definately the place to be!

Cheers

Oh and did I mention how much I like the women and beer over here? :E

In case any of you Canadian chaps were wondering if it would be worth all the blood, sweat and tears, here are the payscales of my own employer.

Word is that we will recruit over 40 first officers for the B757 or A320 fleet in the autumn (sorry, fall).

Why do we need so many recruits?

Because our Canadian programe has gone silly, taken us all by surprise.

http://www.thomascookpilots.com/salaries.asp

Good luck guys, hope to fly with a few of you soon.

Ya, I'm in the same boat as a lot of you guys. There's no comparing the aviation scene over here compared with back home, I was flying a decent jet here with 300 hours, getting paid more than a starting Air Canada FO.

Still, its a big trade off in quality of living, moving from the west coast to the east midlands and probably like everybody that's made the move I could imagine myself heading back one day with a few £s in the back pocket.

Any of you guys keeping your Canadian ATPLs current, and what's involved in that? Is your yearly check ride here enough or would you have to do another one for Transport Canada?

Cheers! (damn, there's me sounding english again)

Wow a string of Canucks in blighty. I am with the spotty M clan and enjoying it. Nice to see a few of the lads over here. For any of you that are getting frustrated back home look to the UK if you can work in Europe. Tons of work for experienced pilots. As an example you can go direct entry skipper on a Dash Q400 with an ATPL, and BA/Virgin plus another dozen or so are recruiting like mad.

I miss home don't get me wrong but as far as I am concerned as a west coaster...........living in TO etc or living in London is all the same! I was not a happy camper my first 6 months here but been almost 2 years now and my feelings have changed. I love it.

Any of you chaps in the Midlands leave me a PM.

Enjoy...

I have tended to go home and do a ride to keep the TC ATPL alive, It used to be current for 2 yrs, and then if you did a ride before 4yrs expired then there was no need to do the written again.
Last communication with TC on the issue around 3 yrs ago there was an exemption for the written if out of the window if you could produce the last LPC/OPC from your co training dept.
But worth a check with TC as things may have changed.
Still £500 and your are current back home again.

Cool, thanks guys. Guess I'll give TC a call next time I'm home and see what they say. It would be nice if the LPC here counted for keeping both current.

CanAV8Vr: blighty, lads and chaps eh? Think you need to get back home for a break and get that out of the system :)

Take it easy,

Good day,

I was just wondering the process involved in converting a Canadian ATPL to that of the CAA/JAA as I have recently been called to interview with one of Europes LCC's. As for my experience I am a B-737 Captain with over 6000 hrs. as for converting would it involve the full process ie 14 examinations or are there waivers? I know that a Sim Check on the B737 would be required.

Any insight to this would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers,
R8ted

If you have over 1000 (could be 1500) PIC on the 737 you are exempt from most of the process. 2 exams which include air law and I think human factors. You will need a JAA medical (cheaper and easier with a Canadian Cat 1) and a ride on a JAA reg 737. Presto you are done.

If you are looking at Ryan I would ask them to pay for all of the above and also play hard ball on terms and conditions as they are very very short of captains. Now how many major airlines in Canada allow for negotiations? Again you are in the drivers seat.

Good luck.

P.S. If you are looking at leaving WJ or something similar in Canada know this. It will not be the same. You will work harder (the max in the UK is 900 hours a year) and you will do this. On the flip side you will make twice the cake and get a wide variety of base choice all over Europe.

Dear CanAv8R,

Thank you very much for your reply! This is kind of what I have been anticipating. I realize that I will fly more but all being said the Money should be much better in my belief! As for any one who will jump on me saying that the cost of living is more in the EU I realize this as I have allready flown throughout Europe on a Canadian validation!

As for the JAA info thank you!

Cheers

stay R8ted

the end of a long process
 

Since I started this thread over a year ago and now that everything is completed I thought I would give my final views on the entire process.

The exams can be alot of work depending on which study material you use. Looking back I probably could have completed them alot faster if I had known about Bristol online question bank as they are up to date. I moved over to the UK lived with family and studied. All exams were complete in 5 months.

The flight portion consisting of a multi engine ride, IFR ride, and commerical ride took just over a month, mostly due to weather. I started looking for a flight school in Jan and couldnt start flying until the end of Feb. Not like the Canadian schools where you call up and say hey I want to come in Monday and start my IFR.
The flight portion cost 7000 sterling which is alot of money when I already had an ATPL with over 4000 hours but they have a minimum conversion time for the IFR of 10 hours in the aircraft and light twins here cost an arm and a leg not to mention the examiner fee of over 1400 canadian.

I finished everything in April and had my frozen ATPL in hand at the end of April and thats when I really started looking for work. Frozen ATPL because I didnt have a type rating on my licence.

I turned down two jobs, one on a 737 800 pay your own rating, and another job flying cargo on a very big turbo prop. I just accepted an offer of employment with the orig carrier I had set my sites on and couldnt be more relieved that all the hard work has paid off.

The entire process has cost me 20 000 canadian roughly, as well as not earning a full time wage.


My terms and conditions are as follows for my new employer..

6 weeks holidays to start a year, 2 weeks bookable in the summer
Private medical plan/dental plan
Company retirement plan of 7.5 percent for 5 years then up to 22 percent they contribute, I put in 8 percent
Rostered monthly blocks that cannot be changed
Ability to sell a day off and work for 800 canadian a day
starting salary of 100 000 canadian as a first officer
home every night
Loss of licence cover
lap top issued updated as soon as you hit the crew room
ability to pre book days off a year in advance or 7 days in advance in case last minute plans come up.

Was it worth it for me, yes very much so. Money wise I will be making over double of what I could have made in Canada in less then half the time. with cost of living comparable to vancouver. Three extra weeks of paid vacation to start, roster stability and home every night.

I know of other people that have done the same conversion process from Canada and are all sitting pretty.

Its not a case of, can you afford to do it, its a case of can you afford not too..

For anyone contemplating it, just send me a private message and I will help out any way I can....

Good luck to all in the great white north, I will miss the mountains and the ocean, but I can retire back to canada much earlier than if I had stayed there and with my holidays I can visit once every other month if desired


510