Carson Air SA226 Metroliner (cargo) missing between YVR and YXS
 

Search expanded for missing plane Carson Air Flight 66 from Vancouver to Prince George - British Columbia - CBC News

Missing since this morning, last radar contact somewhere in the hills north of Vancouver. 2 POB.

does this company fly them single pilot?

Wreckage located north of Mount Seymour in Needle Mountain area. SAR is on site, 1/2 hr of daylight left now.

http://www.news1130.com/2015/04/13/d...ight-66-found/

In Canada - the SA226 is not authorized to fly single pilot.

Sad day. The outcome is not good. The area they went down in is nothing but steep cliffs, trees, and small narrow valleys. No place to set down at all.

Quote: In Canada - the SA226 is not authorized to fly single pilot.

The SA226TC is certified in Canada under FAA type certificate A8SW and is certified for single pilot operation.
Carson Air operates theirs with two pilots.

Carson Air Flight 66 fell from sky in uncontrolled descent

Carson Air Flight 66 fell from sky in uncontrolled descent - British Columbia - CBC News

The plane was not equipped with cockpit voice or flight data recording systems.

Talking to a friend of mine who was close to one of the pilots... Apparently they have only located one wing.
So perhaps looking at an inflight break up.

Without wishing to preempt the official investigation, the Metro had a problem with wheel bay fires causing structural failure at the wing root. Aircraft have been lost before due to this.

Would be strange to lose control due to icing after just 23 min. of flight without the crew noticing how bad things were and attempting to return to the a/p. Not saying it couldn't happen.. we almost lost a Bandeirante climbing out of Geneva one bad night back in the 90s and that was only 15 min after departure but that had a far less capable climb performance than the Metro.

What were the winds doing at the time ?
Big hills ,Big winds, small aircraft .We know how that movie ends.

As a reader who is resident of the area and weather-conscious, can say that icing may have been an issue but winds probably not. After a long spell of mild, dry weather we have seen a few snowfalls on those "hills" (mountains really) and for the past three days the snow line has been at about 700 metres above sea level. From what I recall of weather conditions on the morning of the crash, there was probably a lot of cloud between 500 metres and flight level, at least moderate icing but probably nothing unusual in terms of wind or unstable convective cloud. However, that very rapid descent rate does sound like in-flight breakup more than an icing problem, in which case I don't know if icing could have contributed to the break-up if that proves to be the case.

At the buffet of death ,you can only put so much on your plate before you are full.
If you are iced up ,an aircraft does not need much turbulence before you are a test pilot .
The icing that you can experience in a Pacific warm front can quickly exceed the capability of any aircraft. Add some bumps to that from an outflow and it can get confusing as the tail can stall out .Add the venturi effect to the barometric instruments and it does not take long to confuse or kill even an experienced pilot.


Flying into a "low pressure valley "created by high winds and your altimeter will indicate a climb even if you are descending. A low level jet will give a similar mind fcuk ,if you are caught in the downdraught of a severe local low pressure area .The GPS altitude will be indicating a descent and the Altimeter will be indicating a climb, add ice and it is way more than most pilots are trained or ready for. The indications can be thousands of feet off depending on intensity of the local low created by local winds.
If a pilot is trying to stop the false indication of a climb he may descend into the hill ,in a vain attempt to keep the correct altitude.
If you are lucky you might see the hill before you hit it.


And some pilots wonder why I ask them how to find the GPS altitude feature on the GPS for flights in mountainous areas.
It is one tool you should be using if you notice any large change in groundspeed near big hills. :)

TSB says plane likely broke up in flight.

Plane that crashed in North Vancouver may have broken up in flight: TSB | News1130

The big question is whether the in-flight breakup is a cause or an effect?

One small question in this tragedy...

Reports say it was 25 minutes (6:43-7:08 am) between take-off and loss from radar. While the maps show the distance covered to be ~25 nm, even allowing for a curved flight path.

Is that simply confusion between "left the ramp" and "left the ground" - or am I missing something that would involve a Metroliner travelling only 60 knots, net ground speed?

According to FlightAware's track data, the actual takeoff time was around 7:02am PDT, and radar contact was lost around 7:08am PDT -- so only approx. 6 minutes of flight time before the accident.

Whether ATC were in radar contact with the aircraft or not cannot be inferred from the FlightAware data.

That's not correct DaveReidUK. Companies like FlightAware certainly has access to radar data.

FlightAware certainly does not have direct access to Canadian radar data. They use ADS-B info from different sources including commercial satellite tracking services. There is a lot of trafic FlightAware does not see and some we don't see simply because our radar system does not subscribe to FlightAware's ADS-B network.

So DaveReidUK is correct in saying that FlightAware data doesn't mean radar contact or radar service from ATC.

Sorry but that's not correct.

- Carson Air Flight 66 was not even equipped with an ADS-B transmitter, so the position data could not have come from ADS-B!

- FlightAware is one of very few "web" companies with FAA authorization to receive Class 2 ASDI feed from the FAA. Class 2 means they receive "near real-time" (5 minute delay) ATC (processed radar) feed directly from the FAA.

- The FAA ASDI feed includes position data from all IFR flights in the US, Canada and optionally the UK.

- You can also see from the FlightAware track log I posted yesterday that the Carson Air position data source was not from ADS-B but from Vancouver Center (highlighted in yellow):

https://s3.amazonaws.com/org.barkah....isc/carson.png

My point was that, as the previous poster stated, FlightAware uses a range of sources in addition to ATC radar data, including ADS-B and multilateration from its network of enthusiasts with suitable receivers.

So, as a general rule, the presence of a track on FlightAware does not necessarily imply that an aircraft is in radar contact with an ARTCC, though clearly in this instance it was.

the airplane only has one wing in reality...one piece tip-to-tip, for that to fail they must have gotten into a serious mess

Sounds similar to an accident in New Zealand where the out of balance (fuel)
aircraft's autopilot disconnected, Quickly causing an out of control dive and inflight breakup... One wing was found complete with burn marks from fire as the wing separated.

ASN Aircraft accident Swearingen SA227-AC Metro III ZK-POA Stratford

Its all in there..

after that the made clear instructions on not using autopilot with fuel inbalance. i don´t think this could be again the reason.
do metro ii have fdr and cvr in canada?

In post #6 it was said that "The plane was not equipped with cockpit voice or flight data recording systems."

thanks. one posibility is a fire, metro ii has no extinguishers.

Battery explosions have brought down a Metro as well...many were fitted with lead-acid batteries as a result

Surely not the case?

Onboard fire usually take a little bit of time to fully develop, long enough to be noticed by the crew that something is wrong.

This accident however appears to have been very abrupt.

Alright pretty simple in Canada we have a rather ineffectual regulator. It is a metroII no autopilot, no cvr, no fdr, no 3rd AI, only reason for a gps is because of rnav's

This is a cargo operation, most pax carriers aren't. Much better no autopilot unless required by contract"oilpatch or otherwise" there is very little upgrades done unless absolutely required. Everything piece meal tcas here, taws there, God forbid it would be done as a cohesive unit. Iow expect nothing, and you won't be disappointed. That said you will get really good at your scan

Tell that to the FAA..same same except the 3d AI but without a second pilot:} ..loved it though.

Flew those night cargoes as a copilot,and sometimes wandered in my thoughts, where would You go if You are alone and something goes berserk.Only someone at the Atc to listen.

Herod...amazingly true, no extinguishers...:{

This is captain thinking in the making..even with a first officer,you need to have exit plans,without necessarily sharing your thoughts constantly.

When it got too lonely i would fit an earphone with music into my david clarks,so the right would listen to music and the left to ATC.
Now when weather was :mad:,i didnt have time to listen to music anyways:E

TSB report released:

Aviation Investigation Report A15P0081 - Transportation Safety Board of Canada

BAC of .24. Impressive...

Climbing a Metro II airstair was tough enough sober.

Insane! :eek:

It's a shame that the captain's colleagues knew that he had a drinking problem but no significant action was taken to address it.

And it's shocking that suicide / intentional act is officially a plausible scenario for this crash.