French ATC
French ATC
Join Date: Jun 2001
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Do you mean speaking in French over the R/T?
Anecdotally, I have heard of a lot of complaints, but this could be just annoyance of the English speakers upon hearing French over the R/T.
Maybe try doing a search of the following reporting/investigation sites:
Confidential Human Factors Reporting Programme (CHIRP)
Air Accidents Investigation Board (UK AAIB)
Transportation Safety Board (Canadian TSB)
National Transportation Safety Board (US NTSB)
Hope you find what you're looking for (or maybe I don't...).
Anecdotally, I have heard of a lot of complaints, but this could be just annoyance of the English speakers upon hearing French over the R/T.
Maybe try doing a search of the following reporting/investigation sites:
Confidential Human Factors Reporting Programme (CHIRP)
Air Accidents Investigation Board (UK AAIB)
Transportation Safety Board (Canadian TSB)
National Transportation Safety Board (US NTSB)
Hope you find what you're looking for (or maybe I don't...).
Join Date: Jan 2002
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I fly VFR in the Montreal and Quebec areas frequently. Although I am fluently bi-lingual (English and French), I transmit (and usually receive) in English. I have to say, the full ATC system is very bi-lingual, as are the FSSs (or whatever they call them now).
As for pilots, on our en-route frequency in uncontrolled airspace 126.7, everytime I have communicated in English, efforts are made by the other pilots to communicate back in english, same goes for aerodrome frequencies (MF, ATF).
It's true that a command of French ATC helps with full situational awareness, but the ATC guys help very much with that. Of course, I only have 100 hrs or so....
152
As for pilots, on our en-route frequency in uncontrolled airspace 126.7, everytime I have communicated in English, efforts are made by the other pilots to communicate back in english, same goes for aerodrome frequencies (MF, ATF).
It's true that a command of French ATC helps with full situational awareness, but the ATC guys help very much with that. Of course, I only have 100 hrs or so....
152
Join Date: Nov 2001
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I've flown military jets into Montreal too and it is not much fun when you are doing 250+kts into the break and some w@nker is stooging around speaking french. It reduces everyones situational awareness around an airport.
English is the international language of aviation so why don't the french get on with it and stop being such twats.
English is the international language of aviation so why don't the french get on with it and stop being such twats.
Join Date: Aug 2002
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French ATC
Saudipc-9
Being French-canadian, these remarks kind of ruffled my feathers. A lot of countries in Europe do not always use english over the radio; I've flown in Spain, Portugal, Italy, the UAE, Oman, etc and felt the same way you did flying a Jet in YUL. Was it pleasant? No. Was it unsafe? I certainly don't think so. Are they all twats? I'll let you answer this one. How many accidents/incidents every year have for cause non-english R/Ts? I'd be curious to find out. Never heard it was a concern... except maybe to some unilingual people.
Like they say, when in Rome...
P.S: Tu aurais du faire un peu plus d'effort pendant tes cours de franįais.
Cheers!
Being French-canadian, these remarks kind of ruffled my feathers. A lot of countries in Europe do not always use english over the radio; I've flown in Spain, Portugal, Italy, the UAE, Oman, etc and felt the same way you did flying a Jet in YUL. Was it pleasant? No. Was it unsafe? I certainly don't think so. Are they all twats? I'll let you answer this one. How many accidents/incidents every year have for cause non-english R/Ts? I'd be curious to find out. Never heard it was a concern... except maybe to some unilingual people.
Like they say, when in Rome...
P.S: Tu aurais du faire un peu plus d'effort pendant tes cours de franįais.
Cheers!
Join Date: Nov 2001
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Quebecer,
OK, perhaps calling them twats was abit OTT. However, I do believe that multi languages spoken on the radio is a flight safety hazard.
There are occasions here in Riyadh that the locals revert to arabic in order to sort something out that they cannot shout at each other in english. They do return to english for take-off/landing clearances etc..
If french was the language of aviation then I would speak french on the radio, bit it isn't. I find it very unprofessional for a pilot and ATC to speak in a language which might be the cause or contributing factor in an accident/incident.
I don't have any examples to tell you about, but I do seem to remember hearing about some in the far reaches of the back of my mind. I'll see if I can drag some up
Cheers
PS: I studied french at St Jean for six months with the CF
OK, perhaps calling them twats was abit OTT. However, I do believe that multi languages spoken on the radio is a flight safety hazard.
There are occasions here in Riyadh that the locals revert to arabic in order to sort something out that they cannot shout at each other in english. They do return to english for take-off/landing clearances etc..
If french was the language of aviation then I would speak french on the radio, bit it isn't. I find it very unprofessional for a pilot and ATC to speak in a language which might be the cause or contributing factor in an accident/incident.
I don't have any examples to tell you about, but I do seem to remember hearing about some in the far reaches of the back of my mind. I'll see if I can drag some up
Cheers
PS: I studied french at St Jean for six months with the CF
Last edited by saudipc-9; 29th Apr 2003 at 02:32.
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I remember some years ago overhearing on my VHF scanner an exchange between ATC and the pilot of a BA heavy jet, who I believe was in Quebec airspace. The BA pilot had been listening to radio traffic in French between ATC and a nearby aircraft. The BA pilot asked ATC if they could request the French-speaking pilot to communicate in English, as the BA crew did not understand French. ATC refused his request, pointing out that the use of French in ATC in Quebec was legal. Clearly irritated, the BA pilot responded that that was unfortunate and they would "continue to feel nervous" (I remember those were his exact words).
Rockhound
Rockhound
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We routinely fly jets in the Montreal airspace both VFR and IFR and have yet to come across a serious porblem wrt language. ATC has always been most cooperative in sorting out any confusion and will quickly intervene if a safety issue arises. It seems like an old issue being rehashed for little gain.
As for the VFR french traffic mixing with jet traffic (read fighter guy) in the overhead break at 250 kias that would be an issue at most civilian airports regardless of the language. Breaks look pretty but do little to make life easier for ATC.
88
As for the VFR french traffic mixing with jet traffic (read fighter guy) in the overhead break at 250 kias that would be an issue at most civilian airports regardless of the language. Breaks look pretty but do little to make life easier for ATC.
88
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ATC has always been most cooperative in sorting out any confusion and will quickly intervene if a safety issue arises.
the overhead break at 250 kias that would be an issue at most civilian airports
Back over to you
I've flown in Quebec for nearly fourty years and never had a problem. On the contrary, I think it probably works the other way. In the case of a unilingual French pilot who would be reluctant to use English, at least he's talking, so you know there's somebody out there to keep an eye out for.
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It's true it can be an issue.
Recently, in Morocco an a/c was flying continuously near an airport, speaking to ATC in french.
Several US C130's were also using this same airport. No disrespect meant to the US crews, but did they know where the other a/c was?
Incidentally, only one crewmember on the a/c in question spoke french, the F/O was an anglophone.
A recipe for problems-perhaps. It indeed caused problems in the cockpit, between the left seat and right!
Recently, in Morocco an a/c was flying continuously near an airport, speaking to ATC in french.
Several US C130's were also using this same airport. No disrespect meant to the US crews, but did they know where the other a/c was?
Incidentally, only one crewmember on the a/c in question spoke french, the F/O was an anglophone.
A recipe for problems-perhaps. It indeed caused problems in the cockpit, between the left seat and right!
Join Date: Feb 2002
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Drain Bamaged
This topic has been covered hundred time.
Ok! english may be nice to be heard everywhere.
But just try sometime to digest 100 words shouted in 10 seconds by ATC in....NY area for example.
And itīs your lucky day he/she got a texan accent
.......speaking the same language!?
Ok! english may be nice to be heard everywhere.
But just try sometime to digest 100 words shouted in 10 seconds by ATC in....NY area for example.
And itīs your lucky day he/she got a texan accent .......speaking the same language!?
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Bonjour a tous!
Yep this comes up every year or so. I once got into conversation with an attractive Quebecoise ATCO on the very subject and her opinion was that no pilot - whatever language or languages being used - had good situational awareness. Of course it doesn't help that a certain manufacturer near Montreal goes out of its way to confuse everyone, including ATC, by flying identical aircraft in the same airspace at the same time - we once had a call from YMX "Thought I'd just cleared you to taxi back" (we were on finals at the time - it was a sister aircraft he'd cleared).
I have to query the allusion to Texans talking "100 words in 10 seconds" - I worked next to one for two years and he couldn't get 100 words out in an hour let alone a minute! I was always getting into trouble for interrupting & he was just getting started!
Yep this comes up every year or so. I once got into conversation with an attractive Quebecoise ATCO on the very subject and her opinion was that no pilot - whatever language or languages being used - had good situational awareness. Of course it doesn't help that a certain manufacturer near Montreal goes out of its way to confuse everyone, including ATC, by flying identical aircraft in the same airspace at the same time - we once had a call from YMX "Thought I'd just cleared you to taxi back" (we were on finals at the time - it was a sister aircraft he'd cleared).
I have to query the allusion to Texans talking "100 words in 10 seconds" - I worked next to one for two years and he couldn't get 100 words out in an hour let alone a minute! I was always getting into trouble for interrupting & he was just getting started!
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Sounds to me like that ATCO needs to spend some time in the cockpit to get a different perspective.
Now can you just imagine flying into NYC, Denver or even Toronto when it's busy and having someone pipe up and talk in french!!
Let's be honest, it just boils down to just one thing. Some people want to speak french because they believe it is their right and safety be damned. Very sad!!
Now can you just imagine flying into NYC, Denver or even Toronto when it's busy and having someone pipe up and talk in french!!
Let's be honest, it just boils down to just one thing. Some people want to speak french because they believe it is their right and safety be damned. Very sad!!
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Bearcat,
Bitter? Not at all, just prepared to wave the BS flag when I feel it needs to be shown. Just curious what you were flying in the delta.
You still have not told me why the Break is an issue at a civilian airport.
Cheers
Bitter? Not at all, just prepared to wave the BS flag when I feel it needs to be shown. Just curious what you were flying in the delta.
You still have not told me why the Break is an issue at a civilian airport.
Cheers
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S-9 .... I suppose that going into the break at 250 kts with a few C-172s in the circuit, 500 feet of vertical separation at best, 180 kts of speed diparity and throw in a controller who sees Air Canada twice a day on a twenty mile final and the mix is right to rapidly overwhelm the tower. It was OK at a military base where such a mix was common but it seemed that most other places would literally clear the circuit until you`d landed. Language had little to do with it. Anyway, no insults intended on my part nor did I take any offence in your comments. Just thought I`d jump in for a bit of friendly banter. Fly safe.
P.S. If you`re ex-CF try "cfpilots.com". It is a lot like this site only more specific.
P.S. If you`re ex-CF try "cfpilots.com". It is a lot like this site only more specific.
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Bearcat,
I'm on cfpilots all the time just under a different name Are you on it?
The situation you decribe could be rather dangerous not that it exsists all that often. However, could you imagine that situation as well as one or two of the C-172 guys not being able to or wanting to speak english! That would make the situation much worse don't you think?
Cheers
I'm on cfpilots all the time just under a different name
Are you on it?The situation you decribe could be rather dangerous not that it exsists all that often. However, could you imagine that situation as well as one or two of the C-172 guys not being able to or wanting to speak english! That would make the situation much worse don't you think?
Cheers