Seeking advice from Aviation Experts
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2023
Posts: 6
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From: Pakistan
Seeking advice from Aviation Experts
Hello all,
I’m in my mid 40”s with TT of 4100hours including P1 hours on C130 and G-IV(SP), ATPL (A) from subcontinent. However my experience is entirely military. I am also on pathway to PR (expecting around end of Dec26) on the other hand I have FO offer from subcontinent LCC with 10 years bond amounting to 70000 USD ( 70000 if I leave before 10 years, 35000 if I leave after 5 years).
I also have TC Class 1 fitness. And I was preparing for TC Exams. But now I’m in a fix whether to join airline to gain some commercial experience on A320’s or decline offer wait for couple of months and enter in Canadian market with just faith without commercial experience.
certainly I cannot wait for 10 years neither I can pay 70K USD. I can only negotiate with company after couple of years for instalments of bond.
My instinct says I should give my self 2 years after PR and visit Canada couple of times to appear in exams and convert license. Meanwhile I continue to accumulate commercial hours on A320. Later I negotiate with company.
Any insights & suggestions from fellow aviators are welcome.
I’m in my mid 40”s with TT of 4100hours including P1 hours on C130 and G-IV(SP), ATPL (A) from subcontinent. However my experience is entirely military. I am also on pathway to PR (expecting around end of Dec26) on the other hand I have FO offer from subcontinent LCC with 10 years bond amounting to 70000 USD ( 70000 if I leave before 10 years, 35000 if I leave after 5 years).
I also have TC Class 1 fitness. And I was preparing for TC Exams. But now I’m in a fix whether to join airline to gain some commercial experience on A320’s or decline offer wait for couple of months and enter in Canadian market with just faith without commercial experience.
certainly I cannot wait for 10 years neither I can pay 70K USD. I can only negotiate with company after couple of years for instalments of bond.
My instinct says I should give my self 2 years after PR and visit Canada couple of times to appear in exams and convert license. Meanwhile I continue to accumulate commercial hours on A320. Later I negotiate with company.
Any insights & suggestions from fellow aviators are welcome.
Joined: Apr 2016
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 82
Likes: 1
From: Ontario
Keep in mind PR is not a citizenship. If you leave for a certain period of time, you will forfeit you PR and you won't know about it until CBSA will revoke it upon entry, and issue a removal order from Canada.
Also don't trust you'll get it by Dec 2026, waiting time have being extended dramatically.
The only job worth having is the job you can have, and you got a job offer - take it.
Foreign military experience can be difficult since no one will verify you. No military will share your data,
Also don't trust you'll get it by Dec 2026, waiting time have being extended dramatically.
The only job worth having is the job you can have, and you got a job offer - take it.
Foreign military experience can be difficult since no one will verify you. No military will share your data,
Joined: Oct 2007
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 1,027
Likes: 120
From: Wherever I go, there I am
A little late to the party here, but Mrs. +TSRA and I were at a party last week attended by several people who are involved in hiring pilots for some local airlines. Even though I was but a fly on the wall as it was my wifes domain, there were two conversations that were had, one right after the other, that are salient for the OP.
The first conversation revolved around how poor the hiring market is right now for experienced pilots, how many new hires require additional training or how they're having problems with the work ethic of these pilots, or how many are being fired or simply leaving within their first year. To me it sounded expensive and that some of these companies may be entering territory that I would class as desperate for experience. I might have considered it all a little hyperbolic were it not for my wife coming home over the last few months saying many of the things that were said at this party. As such, the OP should have no problem with the experience listed in finding a job with the disciplined background that comes from military service. While I agree with aviran that foreign military experience can present challenges, I've seen quite a few companies (present one included) take a chance on a pilot in a similar situation. Having trained previous members of the Thai, Saudi, and Turkish Air Forces, I can say that it doesn't take that much instructing experience to quickly identified whether a pilot was telling the truth or not regarding military service.
The second conversation, spurred by the first, was how many of these companies are actively, or are otherwise highly considering, avoiding pilots with work permits and are all but limiting themselves to those with PR or citizenship. There were a few comments made about just how long Immigration Canada is taking to verify or renew work permits, or other issues they're having with visas or other approvals. One guy told of a situation he's having where one of his pilots on a work permit needs to go to the US for training, but the TSA won't give him authorization to train because he is from a "wrong country" (his words) and, if that were not enough, if he leaves the Canada while he is still waiting for his new work permit to arrive, Immigration Canada will cancel his permit as he left the country during a renewal period. It apparently doesn't matter that he's leaving for a work purpose. I almost sounds like the textbook definition of quagmire to me. But, back to the OP - I would wait until you have your PR so that you avoid some of, if not all of, these issues. I would also make sure that even if you have your PR, are you able to get visas or TSA approval without issue. I can't remember all the rules that surround having a PR, with my wife now being a citizen for so long, so just do your due diligence.
Lastly, more experience is never a bad thing, and aviran is again right - the job or job opportunity you have right now is much better than the thought of a potential one down the road...a bird in the hand versus two in the bush sort of thing. Lord only knows how the Canadian economy will look in 2 years, to say nothing of the next few months as all major airlines in Canada are beginning to reduce frequency to the US. Given there is only so many places to send a narrowbody to, my gut says hiring in Canada will be stagnant for a while longer yet, likely well into 2027. I don't think layoffs are likely, but the midterms in the US might have something to say about that come November.
The first conversation revolved around how poor the hiring market is right now for experienced pilots, how many new hires require additional training or how they're having problems with the work ethic of these pilots, or how many are being fired or simply leaving within their first year. To me it sounded expensive and that some of these companies may be entering territory that I would class as desperate for experience. I might have considered it all a little hyperbolic were it not for my wife coming home over the last few months saying many of the things that were said at this party. As such, the OP should have no problem with the experience listed in finding a job with the disciplined background that comes from military service. While I agree with aviran that foreign military experience can present challenges, I've seen quite a few companies (present one included) take a chance on a pilot in a similar situation. Having trained previous members of the Thai, Saudi, and Turkish Air Forces, I can say that it doesn't take that much instructing experience to quickly identified whether a pilot was telling the truth or not regarding military service.
The second conversation, spurred by the first, was how many of these companies are actively, or are otherwise highly considering, avoiding pilots with work permits and are all but limiting themselves to those with PR or citizenship. There were a few comments made about just how long Immigration Canada is taking to verify or renew work permits, or other issues they're having with visas or other approvals. One guy told of a situation he's having where one of his pilots on a work permit needs to go to the US for training, but the TSA won't give him authorization to train because he is from a "wrong country" (his words) and, if that were not enough, if he leaves the Canada while he is still waiting for his new work permit to arrive, Immigration Canada will cancel his permit as he left the country during a renewal period. It apparently doesn't matter that he's leaving for a work purpose. I almost sounds like the textbook definition of quagmire to me. But, back to the OP - I would wait until you have your PR so that you avoid some of, if not all of, these issues. I would also make sure that even if you have your PR, are you able to get visas or TSA approval without issue. I can't remember all the rules that surround having a PR, with my wife now being a citizen for so long, so just do your due diligence.
Lastly, more experience is never a bad thing, and aviran is again right - the job or job opportunity you have right now is much better than the thought of a potential one down the road...a bird in the hand versus two in the bush sort of thing. Lord only knows how the Canadian economy will look in 2 years, to say nothing of the next few months as all major airlines in Canada are beginning to reduce frequency to the US. Given there is only so many places to send a narrowbody to, my gut says hiring in Canada will be stagnant for a while longer yet, likely well into 2027. I don't think layoffs are likely, but the midterms in the US might have something to say about that come November.
Joined: Dec 2005
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 4,973
Likes: 326
From: Hong Kong
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2023
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
From: Pakistan
Reasons to moving Canada - Honestly speaking, stronger passport, better opportunities associated with passport, not necessary in Canada but in ME. Children will eventually have better education from world reputed universities, etc, etc.
But at the same time this will consume my precious flying years, I understand aviation market in Canada is not that lucrative.
Coming to second part of your question, walking away from bond will have obvious financial implications (70,000 USD before 5 years / 35000 USD after 5 years). Incase of leaving without paying (apart from moral obligation) certain legal consequences in home country (which can be handled considering justice system).
But the main thing is legality & structuring of contract it self is questionable. Pilots are only accepting it because they don't have any alternate options and they're desperate for employment, otherwise no one with sane mind can accept it.
Anyways this is the stark reality where corporate capitalize on others frailty.
Yes there is nothing upfront. Company is deducting monthly from salary (also company has taken post dated cheques amounting to 35000 USD)
But at the same time this will consume my precious flying years, I understand aviation market in Canada is not that lucrative.
Coming to second part of your question, walking away from bond will have obvious financial implications (70,000 USD before 5 years / 35000 USD after 5 years). Incase of leaving without paying (apart from moral obligation) certain legal consequences in home country (which can be handled considering justice system).
But the main thing is legality & structuring of contract it self is questionable. Pilots are only accepting it because they don't have any alternate options and they're desperate for employment, otherwise no one with sane mind can accept it.
Anyways this is the stark reality where corporate capitalize on others frailty.
Yes there is nothing upfront. Company is deducting monthly from salary (also company has taken post dated cheques amounting to 35000 USD)
