India to Canadian license conversion
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 9
Likes: 8
From: Florida
India to Canadian license conversion
Hello,
My brother in law is looking at a job in Canada and converting his license. It’s been a while since I flew under TC regs so I’m unsure of the process. He has been told that part of his experience isn’t valid even though from what I can tell India is ICAO? He would be converting an Indian ATPL to TC ATPL.
Any info is greatly appreciated.
My brother in law is looking at a job in Canada and converting his license. It’s been a while since I flew under TC regs so I’m unsure of the process. He has been told that part of his experience isn’t valid even though from what I can tell India is ICAO? He would be converting an Indian ATPL to TC ATPL.
Any info is greatly appreciated.
Joined: Oct 2007
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 1,027
Likes: 120
From: Wherever I go, there I am
Without knowing what part of his experience you reference, it is impossible to say what is invalid, but there are a few reasons I can think of off the top of my head, but I'll end up rambling on if I list them all.
Before you read on, I have to ask: does he have the legal right to work in Canada? If he's a citizen or PR holder, great, no need to think about it further. If he is not, there is no sense moving any further until he has the legal right. The Federal Government just last week closed the door on applying for a work permit while the person is physically in Canada, so if he doesn't have that yet, he needs to get it. If he's already here, he needs to leave and come back. Immigration and Citizenship Canada is where he'd need to go to find out how to apply. But, I digress...
1. Read and follow the guidance in this linked page.
2. Compare his hours against those required for the ATPL as shown here. If he doesn't have the required experience, he cannot apply for an ATPL. In that case scroll up to 421.30 on the same page and compare his hours against the CPL. If that doesn't work, he may have to continue scrolling up to compare against the PPL. The required hours are not flexible, so he needs to be prepared to do some clean-up flying so that his hours meet or ideally exceed the minimums. Also note that any supervision time he may have cannot be counted against the command time requirements - PIC is PIC in Canada. We have a PICUS program, but you can't bring those hours in to Canada, they can only be logged at a Canadian operator and if his ATPL is based on any PICUS hours, not actual command hours, that might be where the hang-up is if he is right at the minimum hours to hold the license.
3. In either case whether he has the experience to hold an ATPL or CPL in Canada, he should go do a Canadian Class 1 medical, if he's not done it already. This is how he'll get his license number (file number) to sit the exams.
4. Read this thread. It already has all the information he'll need to have regarding the exams.
5. Write the exams, pay the fee, and be ready to wait. The service times at TC are getting better, but if he has a job lined up, the company may want to call on his behalf. There was a time where the wait times seemed to be 6 to 8 months. Seems better now, but don't bet the house on it.
Before you read on, I have to ask: does he have the legal right to work in Canada? If he's a citizen or PR holder, great, no need to think about it further. If he is not, there is no sense moving any further until he has the legal right. The Federal Government just last week closed the door on applying for a work permit while the person is physically in Canada, so if he doesn't have that yet, he needs to get it. If he's already here, he needs to leave and come back. Immigration and Citizenship Canada is where he'd need to go to find out how to apply. But, I digress...
1. Read and follow the guidance in this linked page.
2. Compare his hours against those required for the ATPL as shown here. If he doesn't have the required experience, he cannot apply for an ATPL. In that case scroll up to 421.30 on the same page and compare his hours against the CPL. If that doesn't work, he may have to continue scrolling up to compare against the PPL. The required hours are not flexible, so he needs to be prepared to do some clean-up flying so that his hours meet or ideally exceed the minimums. Also note that any supervision time he may have cannot be counted against the command time requirements - PIC is PIC in Canada. We have a PICUS program, but you can't bring those hours in to Canada, they can only be logged at a Canadian operator and if his ATPL is based on any PICUS hours, not actual command hours, that might be where the hang-up is if he is right at the minimum hours to hold the license.
3. In either case whether he has the experience to hold an ATPL or CPL in Canada, he should go do a Canadian Class 1 medical, if he's not done it already. This is how he'll get his license number (file number) to sit the exams.
4. Read this thread. It already has all the information he'll need to have regarding the exams.
5. Write the exams, pay the fee, and be ready to wait. The service times at TC are getting better, but if he has a job lined up, the company may want to call on his behalf. There was a time where the wait times seemed to be 6 to 8 months. Seems better now, but don't bet the house on it.
Joined: Dec 2005
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
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From: Hong Kong
I'd bet on it being a PIC issue. Canada requires 150 actual PIC hours. No one from outside North America who went into a jet with 200 hours will have that unless they got a command or carried on flying privately.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 9
Likes: 8
From: Florida
Thank you lads for the reply. Yes he has the legal right to work in Canada so that is all good.
What is in question is IFR time and Night, which the requirements are similar or the same from India to Canada but I’ll have to ask him further.
There was also the question of certifying the hours, does Transport still require your logbooks to be submitted? He has a digital copy and has been told he doesn’t need to submit logbook.
Cheers,
Paul
What is in question is IFR time and Night, which the requirements are similar or the same from India to Canada but I’ll have to ask him further.
There was also the question of certifying the hours, does Transport still require your logbooks to be submitted? He has a digital copy and has been told he doesn’t need to submit logbook.
Cheers,
Paul
Joined: Oct 2007
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 1,027
Likes: 120
From: Wherever I go, there I am
Hey Paul,
Instrument time is one area I had in the back of my head. Many pilots log every second of an IFR flight as being in instrument conditions, yet Part 1 of the CARs is very clear that the term “instrument time” applies to actual or simulated conditions only (in cloud, hood, or simulator is how this is generally taken). If a guy shows up with say 2,000 hours and claiming 1,800 was logged in instrument conditions, that sets up some red flags. Just take a look at the ATPL requirement. It only requires 75 hours instrument time, indicating Transport means in cloud or simulated with their definition. They know it’ll be much more than that on an IFR flight plan, but they want to see the person can actually fly only with reference to the instruments, not just that they’ve sat on autopilot at FL320 for hundreds of hours.
As for night, that’s what got me when I moved back to Canada from New Zealand. NZ only required half of what Canada required. So even though I had a lot more night time, I didn’t have the appropriate amount of dual night instruction. So it was back into a 172 to clean off those hours because you’ve either ticked all the boxes or you haven’t.
As for the logbook, 421.08 says yes, you have to provide a personal log when applying for a new license or rating. Foreign applicants unable to provide a certified logbook will only be credited with the minimum experience for the license held, so yeah, he’d need to have his book certified. In the case of an electronic logbook, many have a feature that permits electronic certification. Failing that, he could get letters from the schools and operators he’s flown at. That should do the trick.
Instrument time is one area I had in the back of my head. Many pilots log every second of an IFR flight as being in instrument conditions, yet Part 1 of the CARs is very clear that the term “instrument time” applies to actual or simulated conditions only (in cloud, hood, or simulator is how this is generally taken). If a guy shows up with say 2,000 hours and claiming 1,800 was logged in instrument conditions, that sets up some red flags. Just take a look at the ATPL requirement. It only requires 75 hours instrument time, indicating Transport means in cloud or simulated with their definition. They know it’ll be much more than that on an IFR flight plan, but they want to see the person can actually fly only with reference to the instruments, not just that they’ve sat on autopilot at FL320 for hundreds of hours.
As for night, that’s what got me when I moved back to Canada from New Zealand. NZ only required half of what Canada required. So even though I had a lot more night time, I didn’t have the appropriate amount of dual night instruction. So it was back into a 172 to clean off those hours because you’ve either ticked all the boxes or you haven’t.
As for the logbook, 421.08 says yes, you have to provide a personal log when applying for a new license or rating. Foreign applicants unable to provide a certified logbook will only be credited with the minimum experience for the license held, so yeah, he’d need to have his book certified. In the case of an electronic logbook, many have a feature that permits electronic certification. Failing that, he could get letters from the schools and operators he’s flown at. That should do the trick.
Joined: Dec 2005
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 4,975
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From: Hong Kong
Joined: Oct 2007
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 1,027
Likes: 120
From: Wherever I go, there I am
Joined: Oct 2024
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From: pakistan
Thank you lads for the reply. Yes he has the legal right to work in Canada so that is all good.
What is in question is IFR time and Night, which the requirements are similar or the same from India to Canada but I’ll have to ask him further.
There was also the question of certifying the hours, does Transport still require your logbooks to be submitted? He has a digital copy and has been told he doesn’t need to submit logbook.
Cheers,
Paul
What is in question is IFR time and Night, which the requirements are similar or the same from India to Canada but I’ll have to ask him further.
There was also the question of certifying the hours, does Transport still require your logbooks to be submitted? He has a digital copy and has been told he doesn’t need to submit logbook.
Cheers,
Paul
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 9
Likes: 8
From: Florida
You're right about the IFR and night requirements being similar between India and Canada. As for certifying hours, Transport Canada no longer requires you to submit physical logbooks, but it's important to keep accurate records in case they ask for verification. Cheers, Paul!
Last edited by friedwizard; 27th November 2024 at 16:24.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 76
Likes: 25
From: Down a little lower and to the left. Right there baby right there
Hello,
My brother in law is looking at a job in Canada and converting his license. It’s been a while since I flew under TC regs so I’m unsure of the process. He has been told that part of his experience isn’t valid even though from what I can tell India is ICAO? He would be converting an Indian ATPL to TC ATPL.
Any info is greatly appreciated.
My brother in law is looking at a job in Canada and converting his license. It’s been a while since I flew under TC regs so I’m unsure of the process. He has been told that part of his experience isn’t valid even though from what I can tell India is ICAO? He would be converting an Indian ATPL to TC ATPL.
Any info is greatly appreciated.
Canada is NOT big on foreign visa issung, best to try someother place.. Peru is good.
Joined: Apr 2016
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 82
Likes: 1
From: Ontario
Hey Paul,
Instrument time is one area I had in the back of my head. Many pilots log every second of an IFR flight as being in instrument conditions, yet Part 1 of the CARs is very clear that the term “instrument time” applies to actual or simulated conditions only (in cloud, hood, or simulator is how this is generally taken). If a guy shows up with say 2,000 hours and claiming 1,800 was logged in instrument conditions, that sets up some red flags. Just take a look at the ATPL requirement. It only requires 75 hours instrument time, indicating Transport means in cloud or simulated with their definition. They know it’ll be much more than that on an IFR flight plan, but they want to see the person can actually fly only with reference to the instruments, not just that they’ve sat on autopilot at FL320 for hundreds of hours.
As for night, that’s what got me when I moved back to Canada from New Zealand. NZ only required half of what Canada required. So even though I had a lot more night time, I didn’t have the appropriate amount of dual night instruction. So it was back into a 172 to clean off those hours because you’ve either ticked all the boxes or you haven’t.
As for the logbook, 421.08 says yes, you have to provide a personal log when applying for a new license or rating. Foreign applicants unable to provide a certified logbook will only be credited with the minimum experience for the license held, so yeah, he’d need to have his book certified. In the case of an electronic logbook, many have a feature that permits electronic certification. Failing that, he could get letters from the schools and operators he’s flown at. That should do the trick.
Instrument time is one area I had in the back of my head. Many pilots log every second of an IFR flight as being in instrument conditions, yet Part 1 of the CARs is very clear that the term “instrument time” applies to actual or simulated conditions only (in cloud, hood, or simulator is how this is generally taken). If a guy shows up with say 2,000 hours and claiming 1,800 was logged in instrument conditions, that sets up some red flags. Just take a look at the ATPL requirement. It only requires 75 hours instrument time, indicating Transport means in cloud or simulated with their definition. They know it’ll be much more than that on an IFR flight plan, but they want to see the person can actually fly only with reference to the instruments, not just that they’ve sat on autopilot at FL320 for hundreds of hours.
As for night, that’s what got me when I moved back to Canada from New Zealand. NZ only required half of what Canada required. So even though I had a lot more night time, I didn’t have the appropriate amount of dual night instruction. So it was back into a 172 to clean off those hours because you’ve either ticked all the boxes or you haven’t.
As for the logbook, 421.08 says yes, you have to provide a personal log when applying for a new license or rating. Foreign applicants unable to provide a certified logbook will only be credited with the minimum experience for the license held, so yeah, he’d need to have his book certified. In the case of an electronic logbook, many have a feature that permits electronic certification. Failing that, he could get letters from the schools and operators he’s flown at. That should do the trick.
