Traffic Information in G airspace
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 29
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From: Scandinavia
Traffic Information in G airspace
Had the pleasure of flying some VFR sightseeing on my last vacation in Canada, based on a validation of my european CPL.
Based on the Terminal Area Charts (1:250,000) I expected to receive traffic information (known traffic anyway) from the controller working the airspace above me (I was in G, but with C above FL95.) However, when leaving the TMA and entering G airspace, no further radio service was available. Querying if I should contact 'control', I was told not to.
This is much different than how it works over here. What's the deal?
Based on the Terminal Area Charts (1:250,000) I expected to receive traffic information (known traffic anyway) from the controller working the airspace above me (I was in G, but with C above FL95.) However, when leaving the TMA and entering G airspace, no further radio service was available. Querying if I should contact 'control', I was told not to.
This is much different than how it works over here. What's the deal?
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 7
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From: Canada
Class G (g is for the colour green on lo charts..at least that's how I remember it) is all uncontrolled domestic airspace therefore ATC has neither the authority or responsiblity for exercising control over air traffic. The frequency to monitor is 126.7 unless you need to talk on MF (mandatory freq.) or ATF (aerodrome traffic freq.) Does that answer your question?
Did ATC tell you that radar service's terminated, then told to squawk 1200 for VFR, and switch to enroute freq is approved?
If that's the case that would be the norm, unless someone out there can correct me if I'm wrong.
My guess is, seeing you're from Scandinavia, all your airspace is radar controlled, hence, ATC will monitor you on their screen and hand you off to another sector..correct?
In Canada, there is still lots of uncontrolled airspace and non radar environment...seperation of a/c and obst. is on your own.
What's like at your neck of the woods?
By the way, you mentioned FL95 which is 9500. The only FL is 180 or higher unless you were operating in certain parts of Northern Canada (Northern Domestic AirSpace) then you are correct.
Did ATC tell you that radar service's terminated, then told to squawk 1200 for VFR, and switch to enroute freq is approved?
If that's the case that would be the norm, unless someone out there can correct me if I'm wrong.
My guess is, seeing you're from Scandinavia, all your airspace is radar controlled, hence, ATC will monitor you on their screen and hand you off to another sector..correct?
In Canada, there is still lots of uncontrolled airspace and non radar environment...seperation of a/c and obst. is on your own.
What's like at your neck of the woods?
By the way, you mentioned FL95 which is 9500. The only FL is 180 or higher unless you were operating in certain parts of Northern Canada (Northern Domestic AirSpace) then you are correct.
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 20
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From: Canada
Outofcontrol
Sidestep:
The majority of Canadian Airspace is uncontrolled below FL180. I fly IFR in uncontrolled everyday in Canada, and we announce our intentions on 126.70 and the ATF or MF, and listen carefully for a response. Then we drop out of the clag and pray that any VFR guys around were listening. Sounds like fun, no?
Americans flying here in the summer are a great source of amusement for us. You can feel them start to sweat when they are told that they are "clear of controlled airspace, radar and alerting services terminated, cleared enroute frequencies..." Most of the US is controlled also. Usually they can be heard asking later, to no one in particular, if they are cleared for X approach or whatever. You were lucky that you were VFR. Americans kill themselves in droves every year flying IFR in those same mountains, usually just after asking an FSS station (no radars there) for vectors to the runway.
I hear Europe(and Scandanavia) has Flight Levels very close to the ground, and that everything is controlled. Small space, many people. We have a large space, and few people. It's just not economically viable, or really necessary, to control low-level airspace in most of Canada.
If you come back and do it again, once you're clear of controlled, Squawk 1200, announce your altitude, location and intentions, and anyone who might see a conflict will get back to you. And remember, here you are always in an altimeter-setting region until you are through FL180, except for the arctic. Did you have 29.92 on the box at FL095? If you did, your vertical separation was compromised the whole time.
Vancouver is beautiful though, eh?
Fly safe.
The majority of Canadian Airspace is uncontrolled below FL180. I fly IFR in uncontrolled everyday in Canada, and we announce our intentions on 126.70 and the ATF or MF, and listen carefully for a response. Then we drop out of the clag and pray that any VFR guys around were listening. Sounds like fun, no?
Americans flying here in the summer are a great source of amusement for us. You can feel them start to sweat when they are told that they are "clear of controlled airspace, radar and alerting services terminated, cleared enroute frequencies..." Most of the US is controlled also. Usually they can be heard asking later, to no one in particular, if they are cleared for X approach or whatever. You were lucky that you were VFR. Americans kill themselves in droves every year flying IFR in those same mountains, usually just after asking an FSS station (no radars there) for vectors to the runway.
I hear Europe(and Scandanavia) has Flight Levels very close to the ground, and that everything is controlled. Small space, many people. We have a large space, and few people. It's just not economically viable, or really necessary, to control low-level airspace in most of Canada.
If you come back and do it again, once you're clear of controlled, Squawk 1200, announce your altitude, location and intentions, and anyone who might see a conflict will get back to you. And remember, here you are always in an altimeter-setting region until you are through FL180, except for the arctic. Did you have 29.92 on the box at FL095? If you did, your vertical separation was compromised the whole time.
Vancouver is beautiful though, eh?
Fly safe.
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 268
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From: Canada
Subject to controller workload and if you are within radar range (not necessarily a terminal area) you may request "VFR flight following" where the controller will provide traffic advisory service. This is not available if the controller is busy with too much IFR traffic, because as workload increases the VFRs are told exactly as above- "Radar service terminated cleared enroute frequencies" ie. monitor 126.7, see and be seen and make periodic position reports so others monitoring can hear you.
Fun eh?
Fun eh?
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 2,015
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From: "como todo buen piloto... mujeriego y borracho"
If you are in uncontrolled (or even controlled airspace, makes no difference) and in an area of radar coverage you can request from the local Center "Radar Surveillence" (most people just use the U.S. term-- "Flight Following"). They will do it on a workload permitting basis. Most controllers are pretty good, but not necessarily as good as in the US so unless they are guys who have experience with high traffic volume they might freak out and dump you if they get more than a few airplanes in their sector. Military controllers seem to be the worst for this.
Also, in Canada and the United States, unlike many foreign countries the transition level and transition altitude is right at FL180 and 18,000 feet. Everything below is altitudes based on the local altimeter setting (QNH).
Also, in Canada and the United States, unlike many foreign countries the transition level and transition altitude is right at FL180 and 18,000 feet. Everything below is altitudes based on the local altimeter setting (QNH).
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 18
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From: here, there, and everywhere
In the end most places you need not talk to ATC if VFR. In southern airspace, which is where you will almost certainly be,(Northern doesn't start until you are way,way north) as long as you are below 12,500 feet which is also likely you can avoid talking to anybody until (a) you want to enter a control zone with a tower(could be class c or d airspace but who cares). (b) you want to enter what the class c or d airspace around the busier control zones such as Toronto and even less busy control zones such as Ottawa sometimes called TCA(terminal contol area). (c) busier airports with no control tower such as Fort McMurray but will have what is called a mandatory frequency(and usually a flight service station to talk to).
At most airports, there could be a NORDO aircraft legally flying there. I'm not sure if you are legally required to make an advisory for operating at one of these airports if you have a working radio. I just do that anyways. Many have a frequency designated(if they don't, you are supposed to use 123.2) In the end 90% of your cross-country flight or more can be without talking to anybody. However, you may want to request flight following. Workload permitting(I've never been refused) the controller will, but you may eventually run out of radar coverage. Then you are on your own.
At most airports, there could be a NORDO aircraft legally flying there. I'm not sure if you are legally required to make an advisory for operating at one of these airports if you have a working radio. I just do that anyways. Many have a frequency designated(if they don't, you are supposed to use 123.2) In the end 90% of your cross-country flight or more can be without talking to anybody. However, you may want to request flight following. Workload permitting(I've never been refused) the controller will, but you may eventually run out of radar coverage. Then you are on your own.
