FIC operators behaving like ATC

[India Four Two]

I don't do much cross-country flying these days, so I'm a bit out of touch with procedures.

However, yesterday I heard an FIC operator telling an aircraft to "Report downwind". Is this normal?

[+TSRA]

yesterday I heard an FIC operator telling an aircraft to "Report downwind". Is this normal?

Very. It is their way of keeping up their situational awareness, especially when the traffic pattern is getting busy.

Take Grande Prairie for example. Two intersecting runways with two scheduled operators running skeds a couple times a day, at least two medivac operators routinely flying, a couple charter flights a day and I can't count how many fixed and rotary wing locals. There are times where it should be a control zone, yet they're still running a radio. I've spent a lot of time as number four or five going in there, so it only makes sense they'd ask you to report at a specific position. Heck, I even follow their advice on speed and altitude it gets so busy at times.

But - is it legal? They're not a controlling authority, so you don't have to do anything they ask that is outside the normal VFR or IFR reporting procedures. I can't think of a single person that would do that though, so long as the request was reasonable.

[er340790]

Yes - I have noticed it too at the Airstrip 'Operations' at several major northern mining sites... While helpful some (or even much) of the time, it transpired that one such individual was a failed ATC wanabee who, in the absence of proper control & supervision, decided to apply his own unique brand of 'Mission Creep'.

A little knowledge is indeed a dangerous thing.

[evansb]

Get used to it. FSS asking you to report a certain position is NOT controlling. FSS asking a pilot to report a certain position, or asking "can you extend downwind", or similar inquiries, has been accepted practice for DECADES. The purpose of asking the pilot questions is to enhance the airport advisory. I have never found their inquiries or requests intrusive. Keep in mind that NavCanada's FSS/Air Traffic Specialists do in fact CONTROL vehicle traffic on the aerodrome manoeuvring areas.. So perhaps they are asking if you can extend downwind so as to allow a vehicle or other aircraft to exit or cross an active runway.. for example: "Golf Echo Zulu Papa..can you hold short of runway 14?, traffic on short final". It is for our benefit.

Regarding the phraseology at the privately operated airfield at a mine/oil base camp;.. I suggest you talk to management about your concerns.


Also, as you can get Special VFR authorization at Grand Prairie through FSS, it is a control zone of sorts. It is not "uncontrolled airspace" per se.

[altiplano]

Maybe he's just reminding that aircraft to report downwind because it's a requirement operating in an MF?

Maybe he missed the last 3 required calls and someone's waiting to go?

And in the case if Grande Prairie - it is a class 'E' control zone.

In case a brush up on RAC is in order for some in this thread..

https://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviati...-menu-3092.htm

[A Squared]

Just an observation from the other side of the 141st meridian: Canadian Flight Service folks are a lot more actively involved in directing air traffic than are FSS folks in the US. In the US, a FSS at a non-towered airport will relay ATC clearances, open and close flight plans, read weather observations, and pass on information about other known traffic, and that's about it. They do not get involved in any way with managing traffic. If there is a potential conflict, their role is limited to providing information about the traffic, resolving the conflict is entirely up to the pilots concerned. In Canada, the FSS seems to act more like "ATC-lite" in that they get involved in de-confliction. Not to imply this is bad, just that's a very different philosophy, and I find it takes a little getting used to when I'm flying in Canada.

[clunckdriver]

I have no problems with our flight service stations, what I object to is some towers /controller's behaving like Gestapo or Storm Troops, it seems that some of the newer controllers haven't grasped that they are "down there", because we are "up there", not the other way around!

[India Four Two]

An update

My initial post was based on transmissions I heard while flying through northern Montana on my way to Oshkosh.

Yesterday, on the way back, we landed at Lethbridge to clear Customs. The FIC operator was pleasant, friendly and strictly "by the book". After our initial call, he gave us the current weather and then asked our intentions. His responses to all our subsequent position calls were just "Roger".

A far cry from the "clearances" that I heard a week ago from the operator at another Southern Alberta FSS that shall remain nameless.

[rigpiggy]

When they shut down a lot of the towers"downgrade etc...." The staff was often given a choice move to an ACC, or become FSS. Lets see yvr,yeg,ywg,yyz,yul, yqm, or yqx. Or stay in your house and community. I had a gentleman"polite term" in ysj tell me the preferred runway due to wind was 14?' Rnav approach 400/1.5 and it was 3/8 vis. Had a talk to his boss.....