Where a Twotter goes even ...
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,155
Likes: 111
From: There and here
A MASSIVE well done to the Kenn Borek Air crews, both air and ground for a successful mission. My curious mind wishes to ask a perhaps distasteful question, regarding money. The costs of sending several aircraft and crew on a 20,000mile round trip must be somewhat expensive, what would a ball-park figure be for such an endeavour ? I realise that the costs are covered by insurance/tax-payer dollars, but all the same..
Joined: Mar 2014
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From: Maine USA
Ha ..American news coverage started with a clip of a C-130 then on to the story ..at no time were the words..Ken Borek Air, Canada, Canadians used. Heavens forbid that they name the crew.
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 202
Likes: 69
From: Falkland Islands and UK
Hi Alpine Flyer - as you are probably aware, the operation to South Pole was a landing on snow rather than blue ice, and something definitely not possible with a Dash 7.
When the Dash 7 was selected for use by BAS, I believe there was some design work done into fitting it with skis, to enable it to be used for deep field work as well as the intercontinental link between the newly constructed gravel runway at Rothera, and Chile or the Falklands. However, I believe the design they came up with, while workable as an engineering solution, was never going to be practical due to range and payload factors (weight of the skis and reduced cruise speed, on what is already a slow design of aircraft due to its STOL capabilities).
However, blue ice with the Dash 7 is now a routine operation for BAS, and has been since around 1994. The site flown to is Sky Blu, a patch of blue ice at about 75S 71W, approx 500 miles South of Rothera, 4500' up on the Peninsula.
Blue Ice areas occur naturally in the Antarctic, usually in the lee of exposed mountain tops, where the prevailing winds scour the snow off the underlying glacier ice. The surface can vary a lot, depending on conditions and temperature - sometimes absolutely slick and smooth, sometimes a small amount of grip, and sometimes quite textured with "sun-cups" (small, 2-3" dia. shallow depressions, than can be a bit bumpy).
With no braking at all, the stopping is completely by reverse thrust, but at normal landing weights in the Dash, you are touching down pretty slow (80-90 kts). The crosswind limits are about 10kts max, and taxiing needs a slightly modified techniqe, as with no grip, the nose-wheel will not steer you and you rely on differential power, but you do need to keep the nose-wheel aligned with the direction of turn otherwise you get some nasty juddering.
One time, we managed to demonstrate just how little friction there was by taking off with the Parking Brake (inadvertently, due to a non-standard sequence of events) left on. Only realised half way back to Rothera!
The big advantage of using the Dash to Sky Blu is that it can move as much payload in one round trip from Rothera (4h40) as it would take in about 30 hours of Twin Otter flying, and has greatly reduced the amount of fuel positioning that used to be done by Twin Otter for the deep field work.
This link https://www.bas.ac.uk/polar-operatio...sh-7-aircraft/ should take you to the BAS webpage with more info on the Dash, and a nice photo of it landing on the ice,
And this link https://www.bas.ac.uk/wp-content/upl...blu_010113.pdf should take you to the approach chart for Sky Blu, with further information and a nice aerial shot of the blue ice.
I flew the BAS Dash 7 between 1997 and 2009, and probably did around 100 landings at Sky Blue - miss it a lot.
When the Dash 7 was selected for use by BAS, I believe there was some design work done into fitting it with skis, to enable it to be used for deep field work as well as the intercontinental link between the newly constructed gravel runway at Rothera, and Chile or the Falklands. However, I believe the design they came up with, while workable as an engineering solution, was never going to be practical due to range and payload factors (weight of the skis and reduced cruise speed, on what is already a slow design of aircraft due to its STOL capabilities).
However, blue ice with the Dash 7 is now a routine operation for BAS, and has been since around 1994. The site flown to is Sky Blu, a patch of blue ice at about 75S 71W, approx 500 miles South of Rothera, 4500' up on the Peninsula.
Blue Ice areas occur naturally in the Antarctic, usually in the lee of exposed mountain tops, where the prevailing winds scour the snow off the underlying glacier ice. The surface can vary a lot, depending on conditions and temperature - sometimes absolutely slick and smooth, sometimes a small amount of grip, and sometimes quite textured with "sun-cups" (small, 2-3" dia. shallow depressions, than can be a bit bumpy).
With no braking at all, the stopping is completely by reverse thrust, but at normal landing weights in the Dash, you are touching down pretty slow (80-90 kts). The crosswind limits are about 10kts max, and taxiing needs a slightly modified techniqe, as with no grip, the nose-wheel will not steer you and you rely on differential power, but you do need to keep the nose-wheel aligned with the direction of turn otherwise you get some nasty juddering.
One time, we managed to demonstrate just how little friction there was by taking off with the Parking Brake (inadvertently, due to a non-standard sequence of events) left on. Only realised half way back to Rothera!
The big advantage of using the Dash to Sky Blu is that it can move as much payload in one round trip from Rothera (4h40) as it would take in about 30 hours of Twin Otter flying, and has greatly reduced the amount of fuel positioning that used to be done by Twin Otter for the deep field work.
This link https://www.bas.ac.uk/polar-operatio...sh-7-aircraft/ should take you to the BAS webpage with more info on the Dash, and a nice photo of it landing on the ice,
And this link https://www.bas.ac.uk/wp-content/upl...blu_010113.pdf should take you to the approach chart for Sky Blu, with further information and a nice aerial shot of the blue ice.
I flew the BAS Dash 7 between 1997 and 2009, and probably did around 100 landings at Sky Blue - miss it a lot.
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 207
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From: australia
As a 10 year old I can recall standing on the wharf in Melbourne to see off a boat to antarctica with on board an Auster to operate down there. It provided many imaginary dreams. It seems the Antarctic is still a new continent. Thanks for an interesting thread and especially Ant T's comments.
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 6,328
Likes: 2
From: France
Airfix did make a kit. When I was a young pilot there was a DCI (or equivalent) inviting volunteers to fly it (the real one). I had Auster and Chipmunk experience and I considered applying but was daft enough to mention the idea to the then Mrs - big mistake. Often wonder how things would have turned out if I had applied and had been accepted. Strangely, youngest son who is a CAD designer is considering applying for a job with - British Antarctic Survey
Joined: Jun 2002
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
Posts: 7,175
Likes: 294
From: Nanaimo (CAC8)
And here's the real thing. One of the highlights of my visit to the RNZAF Museum at Wigram:
I had not previously noticed that there is an RAF serial under the wing and an RNZAF serial on the tail. Does anyone know the history of that?
Wander00,
Sometime in the late 60s, during my UAS career, I met a Flight Lieutenant who had volunteered to fly a Twin Otter for the BAS. He was very bitter about his experience and said it had ruined his career.
I had not previously noticed that there is an RAF serial under the wing and an RNZAF serial on the tail. Does anyone know the history of that?
Often wonder how things would have turned out if I had applied and had been accepted.
Sometime in the late 60s, during my UAS career, I met a Flight Lieutenant who had volunteered to fly a Twin Otter for the BAS. He was very bitter about his experience and said it had ruined his career.
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 245
Likes: 16
From: Somewhere nice
I42 :
"I had not previously noticed that there is an RAF serial under the wing and an RNZAF serial on the tail. Does anyone know the history of that?"
Google is your friend
http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/document...-T-7-WE600.pdf
"I had not previously noticed that there is an RAF serial under the wing and an RNZAF serial on the tail. Does anyone know the history of that?"
Google is your friend
http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/document...-T-7-WE600.pdf
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
Joined: Jan 2000
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 4,330
Likes: 485
From: England
Years ago, I was asked to write a reference for a colleague. I don't know whether my reference (positive) carried any weight, but he wasn't accepted. At that time I was flying for Loganair in Scotland. During the Antarctic winter I gather the aircraft came north for maintenance, and then were leased out . I flew VP-FAW, a bright red Falkland Islands registered aircraft. Funnily enough, some 36 years later, at Duxford, I came across VP-FAZ, which was obviously going somewhere.
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 44
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From: 49th parallel
A different but more complete interview of all of the crews from Kenn Borek Air flight to the pole:
'Everything went as planned': Calgary-based air crew share details of South Pole mission | CTV News
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'Everything went as planned': Calgary-based air crew share details of South Pole mission | CTV News
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