First Air Pilots Fired
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First Air Pilots Fired
First Air fires pilots who flew off course in Nunavut - North - CBC News
Does anyone know how a modern jet with auto-pilot and GPS can get lost? Did the pilots enter the wrong co-ordinates?
Does anyone know how a modern jet with auto-pilot and GPS can get lost? Did the pilots enter the wrong co-ordinates?
It was likely a grid navigation error - probably a case of adding instead of subtracting (or vice versa). I doubt that the aircraft has GPS. The 737-200 is hardly modern. Think 1968 Chevy - no air bags, no ABS, shoulder harness optional.
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It was likely a grid navigation error - probably a case of adding instead of subtracting (or vice versa). I doubt that the aircraft has GPS. The 737-200 is hardly modern. Grid Navigation is used when flying close to the poles. Rankin Inlet may seem far north, but its not nearly far enough to be using Grid.
Yes the A/C had a retrofitted GPS.
And the a/c came from NWT air, not Air North...
Yes the A/C had a retrofitted GPS.
And the a/c came from NWT air, not Air North...
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Further Coverage
It does seem somewhat premature to fire two experienced pilots when the investigation is still ongoing and procedures are being modified (suggesting that there was something amiss with their SOPs in the first place...) 
By Bob Weber, The Canadian Press
A northern air carrier has fired two pilots after they flew a plane so far off course on a routine Arctic flight that it took about 20 minutes to get back.
"We learned the pilots did not follow our standard operating procedures designed to eliminate navigational errors," First Air said in a release Thursday.
"As a result, those pilots are no longer employees of First Air."
The Boeing 737 left Rankin Inlet, Nunavut, on a routine flight to the territorial capital of Iqaluit on March 31. It was carrying 19 passengers and four crew when something went wrong.
"We're still working to find that out," said Peter Hildebrand of the Transportation Safety Board. "There were a number of things working together here."
The airplane was being guided by a GPS system, which fed data into a flight management system. In turn, the system directed the plane's autopilot.
"There seems to have been some problem somewhere and that led to an airplane that drifted off track," Hildebrand said.
The plane drifted so far to the north, he said, that its landing was about 20 minutes late.
Those aboard were not in danger, said the company. Hildebrand said the plane had enough fuel to make it all the way to Goose Bay in Newfoundland and Labrador.
Hildebrand added that the plane involved is the only one in First Air's fleet with that particular model of flight management system.
First Air said procedures have been changed as a result of the mistake.
"We have gone to great lengths to update and strengthen our standard operating procedures to ensure our pilots have the tools they need to fly safely," the airline said. "We have also increased in-flight oversight using data monitoring tools."
Hildebrand said no formal investigation has been launched.
"We're gathering data and working with the company. If we see at any time there's a need for a system-wide response on this, we can change our stance."
First Air flies throughout the Canadian North and into some southern cities. It is wholly owned by Makivik Corp., which manages land settlement money from the James Bay Agreement for the Inuit of northern Quebec.
By Bob Weber, The Canadian Press
A northern air carrier has fired two pilots after they flew a plane so far off course on a routine Arctic flight that it took about 20 minutes to get back.
"We learned the pilots did not follow our standard operating procedures designed to eliminate navigational errors," First Air said in a release Thursday.
"As a result, those pilots are no longer employees of First Air."
The Boeing 737 left Rankin Inlet, Nunavut, on a routine flight to the territorial capital of Iqaluit on March 31. It was carrying 19 passengers and four crew when something went wrong.
"We're still working to find that out," said Peter Hildebrand of the Transportation Safety Board. "There were a number of things working together here."
The airplane was being guided by a GPS system, which fed data into a flight management system. In turn, the system directed the plane's autopilot.
"There seems to have been some problem somewhere and that led to an airplane that drifted off track," Hildebrand said.
The plane drifted so far to the north, he said, that its landing was about 20 minutes late.
Those aboard were not in danger, said the company. Hildebrand said the plane had enough fuel to make it all the way to Goose Bay in Newfoundland and Labrador.
Hildebrand added that the plane involved is the only one in First Air's fleet with that particular model of flight management system.
First Air said procedures have been changed as a result of the mistake.
"We have gone to great lengths to update and strengthen our standard operating procedures to ensure our pilots have the tools they need to fly safely," the airline said. "We have also increased in-flight oversight using data monitoring tools."
Hildebrand said no formal investigation has been launched.
"We're gathering data and working with the company. If we see at any time there's a need for a system-wide response on this, we can change our stance."
First Air flies throughout the Canadian North and into some southern cities. It is wholly owned by Makivik Corp., which manages land settlement money from the James Bay Agreement for the Inuit of northern Quebec.
"We learned the pilots did not follow our standard operating procedures designed to eliminate navigational errors,"
"First Air said procedures have been changed as a result of the mistake."
If they were fired for not following SOP's why did the incident cause a change in SOP's??
"First Air said procedures have been changed as a result of the mistake."
If they were fired for not following SOP's why did the incident cause a change in SOP's??
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Good luck to First Air Management with their Safety Program. They have effectively taken themselves back to the 70's when crews would hide their mistakes in fear of retribution. Their recent accident report highlighted the ineffective CRM program and now you can kiss their SMS goodbye.
The only way to increase the safety of an airline is to have a "just reporting" culture that allows employees to admit mistakes by reporting them (without heavy reprimand). Being fired for making a mistake that was eventually recognized and did not endanger any lives or the aircraft highlights a serious flaw in an airline's safety culture.
The only way to increase the safety of an airline is to have a "just reporting" culture that allows employees to admit mistakes by reporting them (without heavy reprimand). Being fired for making a mistake that was eventually recognized and did not endanger any lives or the aircraft highlights a serious flaw in an airline's safety culture.
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It's a total joke.....makes a mockery of the entire SMS concept and perhaps First Air management can show me the package of completed Just Culture documentation that will surely have been generated as a result of their internal investigation.........you know, the one that was completed BEFORE the TSB completed theirs.
Back to the 70's at the very least. Idiots.
Back to the 70's at the very least. Idiots.
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First Air fires pilots who flew off course in Nunavut - North - CBC News
Peter Black, chair of the First Air unit of the Air Line Pilots Association International, said in a statement that the union is "deeply disappointed" with the decision to fire the pilots "prior to a complete and thorough investigation of the incident."
“This rush to judgment has unfairly called into question the expertise and professionalism of a crew with more than 40 years of combined flight experience," Black said. "We will use all of the union’s resources to investigate this incident and support the crew.”
Peter Black, chair of the First Air unit of the Air Line Pilots Association International, said in a statement that the union is "deeply disappointed" with the decision to fire the pilots "prior to a complete and thorough investigation of the incident."
“This rush to judgment has unfairly called into question the expertise and professionalism of a crew with more than 40 years of combined flight experience," Black said. "We will use all of the union’s resources to investigate this incident and support the crew.”
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Perhaps, given that the company was given a rap over the knuckles for the crew not following SOPs' in regard to navigation in polar regions in the report into the company's CFIT at Resolute Bay in August 2011, they thought a sacking or two would encourage the others to pay more attention in the future.
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Well I hope Peter Black sits in the DFO's office everyday with about 4 million pages of evidence showing that firing people is not the answer to improving morale or ensuring adherence to SOP's.
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I would suspect the terminations will not pass an arbitrator's smell test. Over reaction is easy but a proper investigation is mandatory, prior to any severe discipline.
A similar incident happened many years ago out of YZF just after the merger of CAI. The crew was taken off the line and retrained in the proper procedures and techniques. Re-trained but not terminated.
Unfortunately it might take a while to get their positions back.
A similar incident happened many years ago out of YZF just after the merger of CAI. The crew was taken off the line and retrained in the proper procedures and techniques. Re-trained but not terminated.
Unfortunately it might take a while to get their positions back.
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The crew was taken off the line and retrained in the proper procedures and techniques. Re-trained but not terminated.
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Basic skill sets notwithstanding, any pilot/crew are only as good as the training they receive, period. And I say again, to fire/terminate/dismiss these pilots BEFORE the official investigation has been completed is prehistoric-style HR management.
Generally speaking, if crews are deviating from published SOP's, there is a reason.....intentional non-compliance, lapse or what have you. Either way, I'm sure the enlightened management at First Air will be falling all over themselves to share with the world their Just Culture assessment of the incident. Iditots.
Generally speaking, if crews are deviating from published SOP's, there is a reason.....intentional non-compliance, lapse or what have you. Either way, I'm sure the enlightened management at First Air will be falling all over themselves to share with the world their Just Culture assessment of the incident. Iditots.
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I'm sure the enlightened management at First Air will be falling all over themselves to share with the world their Just Culture assessment of the incident. Iditots.
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Just a thought, but when two pilots get lost, unless there was some sort of equipment malfunction, it kinda looks like gross negligence as they were both experienced pilots.
It does not fall within the mandate of an SMS program to deal with gross negligence.
And, if getting rid of them is an undesirable option, what is the solution?
Tell them not to do it again? Something they should not have done in the first place? Additional training? How would that work? They were already trained , qualified and experienced. To what end would be accomplished by more training.
A dilemma for the company. These pilots are not victims of a company culture. They are not victims of a failed SOP or SMS programs. And their actions put at unnecessary risk some innocent passengers.
It was a good bit of work that someone on the ground spotted the error, and was able to relay a message..
So for those that think firing is cave men age management, offer some suggestions.
But then it might all just be a ruse to make the travelling public not worry about a repeat performance with a less happy ending...and they will quietly be hired back.
It does not fall within the mandate of an SMS program to deal with gross negligence.
And, if getting rid of them is an undesirable option, what is the solution?
Tell them not to do it again? Something they should not have done in the first place? Additional training? How would that work? They were already trained , qualified and experienced. To what end would be accomplished by more training.
A dilemma for the company. These pilots are not victims of a company culture. They are not victims of a failed SOP or SMS programs. And their actions put at unnecessary risk some innocent passengers.
It was a good bit of work that someone on the ground spotted the error, and was able to relay a message..
So for those that think firing is cave men age management, offer some suggestions.
But then it might all just be a ruse to make the travelling public not worry about a repeat performance with a less happy ending...and they will quietly be hired back.
Last edited by treykule; 30th Apr 2014 at 04:07. Reason: Spelling mistakes
