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C-FEXV Cessna 208 Caravan crashes 500K East of Churchill

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C-FEXV Cessna 208 Caravan crashes 500K East of Churchill

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Old 24th Nov 2013, 02:23
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C-FEXV Cessna 208 Caravan crashes 500K East of Churchill

There is something very weird and or unusual with this accident.
so, because I don't have a crystal ball, I'll try some deductive reasoning.

What are the causes? Suicide? Possible, unlikely but could also be a faked suicide with the rumour mill running that he bailed out and was caught at another airport. All unconfirmed.

Hypoxia? Did he climb to Altitude? As usual, ATC/FS had communications and we don't have any details of the radio calls? Why not? Its outrageous that the radio info was not shared.
Then what about his transponder setting? Did it report Altitude? That would answer a lot of questions.

Fact is, the Aircraft, at least flew in a straight line till it used up all its fuel and crashed.

Personality? Who knew him, what is his history? Odds are with strange accident, the story and rumors will only get more bizarre.



-----------

Sault Ste. Marie plane crashes in Hudson Bay
Pilot missing, debris found about 200km from Fort Severn, Ont.

Search and rescue officials say debris consistent with a plane crash has been located in the waters of Hudson Bay Thursday morning, and there is no sign of the pilot.

One person was on board the Cessna 208 when it left Sault Ste. Marie, Ont., Wednesday on a training flight. It was expected to fly north and then return to Sault Ste. Marie half an hour later.
Churchill, manitoba

The debris was found about 500 km east of Churchill, Man. Churchill is shown on this map. (Google map)

David Elias, a public affairs officer with the Royal Canadian Air Force, says the Joint Rescue Coordination Centre in Trenton, Ont., began co-ordinating a search that evening at about 5 p.m. ET after the plane's emergency beacon was activated 1,200 kilometres north of Sault Ste. Marie.

Two Hercules aircraft, one from Trenton, one from Winnipeg, participated in the search.

Debris was located at about 7 a.m. Thursday in an area about 500 kilometres east of Churchill, Man., 200 kilometres from Fort Severn, Ont.

“It appears highly unlikely anyone would have survived this situation,” says Elias.

The RCAF says the pilot was out of communication during the flight.

A spokesperson for the owner — Edmonton-based Morningstar Air Express — says it was an unscheduled flight.

Nunavut RCMP, the Transportation Safety Board and the Nunavut Coroner's Office are investigating.

Sault Ste. Marie plane crashes in Hudson Bay - North - CBC News


Transport Canada CADORS

A Morningstar Air Express Cessna 208B (MAL8084) filed a visual flight rules (VFR) flight plan with the London, ON Flight Information Centre (CYXU FIC) for a local flight in the vicinity of Sault Ste. Marie, ON (CYAM). The aircraft went overdue. The Rescue Coordination Centre (RCC) notified and confirmed that a 406 emergency locator transmitter (ELT) signal for C-FEXV was being tracked. No further information recieved. Search and Rescue (SAR) is ongoing and the Transportation Safety Board (TSB) has been advised.

courtesy of TSB reports

A13O0182: The Morningstar Cessna 208 C-FEXV departed CYAM Sault Ste. Marie at 1215 EDT on a local VFR flight plan with a stated estimated enroute time of 30 minutes. The 406 ELT was activated during the flight and its location was tracked moving northbound several hundred miles north of CYAM. The last ELT position recorded was around 1700 EDT approximately 140 NNW of Fort Severn Ontario, over Hudson Bay. Several pieces of debris were located in this vicinity and their identity is pending confirmation.

Caravan holds 2400 lbs of fuel (full fuel).
Burns about 365 lbs/hr.
Thats 6.58 hours of flying at 140 kts gives 921 nm.

921nm NNW of Sault it would run outta gas and splash into the Bay.. right where they found it.
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Old 24th Nov 2013, 18:48
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The operator is first class and this accident appears to have nothing to do with their operation.

There is a tendency to hide any and all relevant information so that the "bad news"
blows over.

The facts are, the Operator did not authorize what the press called a "training flight",
in one article and in another it was referred to as a "test flight".
Another official report again called it a "training flight".

and "left radar at about 5:30 p.m. Wednesday."


Morningstar Air Express however says it was an unscheduled flight.

"debris consistent with a plane crash has been located in the waters of Hudson Bay"

"The RCAF says the pilot was out of communication during the flight."

(Unofficial sources say the ELT came on near Sioux Lookout)

that is the 'young pilot' took the Cessna Caravan and departed Sault St. Marie Ontario
and while flying over one of the few roads north east of Sioux, the ELT came on, stayed on
until running out of fuel and crashing 500 K east of Churchill, north east of Fort Severn.



David Elias, a public affairs officer with the Royal Canadian Air Force, says the Joint Rescue Coordination Centre in Trenton, Ont., began co-ordinating a search that evening at about 5 p.m. ET after the plane’s emergency beacon was activated 1,200 kilometres north of Sault Ste. Marie.

"Initial reports also suggested the pilot was not communicating via radio and the test flight was was suppose to be short and return to Sault Ste. Marie."

courtesy of TSB reports

A13O0182: The Morningstar Cessna 208 C-FEXV departed CYAM Sault Ste. Marie at 1215 EDT on a local VFR flight plan with a stated estimated enroute time of 30 minutes.

The 406 ELT was activated DURING THE FLIGHT and its location was tracked moving northbound several hundred miles north of CYAM.

The last ELT position recorded was around 1700 EDT approximately 140 NNW of Fort Severn Ontario, over Hudson Bay. Several pieces of debris were located in this vicinity and their identity is pending confirmation.


Pilots near Thunder Bay were told an ELT had been heard near CAT lake, again not far from Sioux Lookout some two hours before the crash.


Did he climb to altitude, put on the autopilot and become hypoxic?


The pilot was apparently highly experienced with a parachute.

The facts leading to this accident are anything other than ordinary.


Morningstar is well known as one of the classier Canadian operators of single pilot Caravans.
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Old 25th Nov 2013, 08:58
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A strange one indeed! Weird that the ELT was activated so long before the crash.
Some medical problem with the pilot? Hypoxia perhaps?
I am suprised there was no radar tracking with ALT. readout.
Sad no matter what the circumstances.
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Old 10th Dec 2013, 21:23
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My best bet is that if anybody recovers the aircraft, it'll be empty.
Expert skydiver
Seen on security cameras loading bags of personal gear
Had been heard saying he needed to disappear
ELT started transmitting in the area of the only road anywhere near the flight path
Was very familiar with the area
Flew over Lake Superior....draw your own conclusions on that one
Wolfdog
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Old 11th Dec 2013, 07:42
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This thread will presumably be the first with the complete story, hopefully!

AVCANADA ? View topic - 208 in hudson bay
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Old 3rd Jan 2014, 20:29
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Don't bother reading AVCANADA, its heavily censored and
I can see a large number of posts were deleted or edited to blank.

Its a forum where anything about accidents apparently upsets the owner and or
moderators who rely on advertizing income. Anything that might not
suit operators and or insurance and or investigators is routinely removed.

Most of the regular posters have been banned or suspended who then
need to create new IDs.

Dam near every accident discussed on AVCANADA is heavily censored
and you are much better off reading PPRUNE.org
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Old 3rd Jan 2014, 20:55
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Don't bother reading AVCANADA, its heavily censored and
I can see a large number of posts were deleted or edited to blank.
What he said. I've given up posting on the place and logged off after yet another deleted post and more bull**** snide remarks.
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Old 3rd Jan 2014, 22:01
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Just the opposite of basking in apparent superiority, here's our truth at PPRuNe

In the immediate aftermath of a significant accident, the first 48 hours sees us deleting anywhere between 20 to 30% of posts. Hairbrained ideas, non aviators, the simply mad - all come out in force. It's an internet thing.

Rob
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Old 3rd Jan 2014, 23:43
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Thanks for that!
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Old 4th Jan 2014, 13:38
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PPRUuNe Towers, I think most of us understand that the internet does indeed have a large number of posters who walk around with tinfoil on their heads and talk to green men in space, of course one has to get rid of these rather "entertaining" posters, but on Av Canada these are not the ones removed, instead the Mods on the site, {by the way its an American site, in spite of its name } remove many thoughtfull and expert posts as they dont fit into the American/Canadian curse of political corectness,or it might offend a sponsor, unlike in the UK which seems to have a much more robust attitude towards free speech.Have to go now, expecting a call from Mars on the Bat Phone!
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Old 5th Jan 2014, 17:50
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AVCANADA

Rob,
There is a big difference between posts by non-aviators and those who have had decades of experience and in some cases, there are posters who knowledge and experience indicate that they are in their late 80's let alone 50's and 60's.

AVCANADA has at some stage, banned or suspended dam near all the prolific posters. The Moderators there are rife with personality problems, operate like dictators and there is no recourse or accountability.

Take one look at the type and quality of advertizing that goes along with that site and you can see it is commercially driven rather than by a love of aviation.

Maybe I'm lucky but as someone who posts a lot on accidents, I have not noticed any good post being deleted at pprune but at AVCANADA the odds of a post being removed is high. Just take a look at their forums and you will see -deleted- etc. in red type.

Then you see users ID"s disappear after a post and the same person reappear under another ID immediately afterwards.

That means on AVCANADA to survive, you have find out who the moderators are and then post positive remarks regarding their posts and never ever post anything that they might not agree with.

One moderator there was a personal friend who I used to fly with. While his name still appears there as a moderator, I can confirm that he is in fact deceased.
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Old 8th Jan 2014, 17:47
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Ok I've just looked through a bit of the moderator forum at AvCan...

1.)As a moderator, I'm not paid at all for the time I spend trawling through the posts there.
2.)I've had no direction from AC management at all with regards to commercial considerations.
3.)The threads/posts that have been deleted almost invariably contained: a.)people's names - leaving AC open to legal action should someone (and there's always someone..) post something defamatory. b.)Completely off-topic comments that seem to be posted only to sidetrack the discussion.

We/you are fortunate that the 'Canada' forum here on PPRune is fairly a quiet backwater of the site as a whole. Ask some of the offending AvCan posters to post in the same vein on 'Rumours and News' here, and see how fast the censor's pen comes out.. (See PPRune Towers' post above...)

Carry on!

PS. Some of us knew Bob, too. We decided to leave his Userid up as a sign of respect...
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Old 8th Jan 2014, 18:01
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There is no doubt that Avcanada has lost most of the older generation of posters.

I see Pigboat has given up also, to bad they lost another high time experienced mentor for the new generation.
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Old 8th Jan 2014, 21:31
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Northshore,
Well I spent hundreds of hours with the deceased moderator so it's a pity he is not around any more in more ways than one.

I take issue with your comments that are a "red herring", "a diversion" from the issue of bad dictator style moderation that makes AVCANADA a stressful place.

The posts I've seen removed had NOTHING to do with liability and that's a cop out most of the time. Its more a knee jerk reaction, a dictator or passive aggressive hitler personality does not like another posts so they "flag" it or bang off an email to "their moderator" and have it deleted.

Thats where the threats and intimidation comes on.
It treats and writes to posters as though they are criminals
on probation, there is next to zero respect for posters.

I don't mind if you leave Bob's id up, thats fine. I showed my respect personally. I don't need to do it on line.

But the moderators AVCANADA seem to be a collection of the sorts of personalities I want no thing to do with. Pity help those who have to fly with them but, it seems at least those who acted like cowboys on Avcanada were also lone star rangers in the cockpit.

I've also spoken to some the most prolific posters who have many decades of flying experience and who are some the most devoted instructors / mentors around and all have been repeatedly banned for suspended from Avcanada.

And thats just one of the reasons I prefer Pprune as it's nice to catch up on the news from familiar places.

Ramjet
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Old 9th Jan 2014, 16:00
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Rather than form your opinions on the quality or lack thereof of moderation on any aviation forum by listening to their moderators defending the site you can do a quick search for the quality of posting that is allowed to go on and on by the moderators.

The older posters seem to have faded into oblivion and are being replaced by the newer members of the aviation group.

Just go have a look at the quality of posts by one of Avcanadas newer members that goes by the name of " Pop n Fresh " a quick read of this posters contributions will tell you all you need to know about the I.Q. level of posters the mods are looking for.
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Old 15th Jan 2014, 18:17
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I think the quality of posts on internet forums is deep in the crapper. Either you're throwing insults or complaining or offended or irrelevant or preaching or passive aggressive or just an idiot... Other than the occasional news item or rumour participation is just a waste of time at this point. avcanada is the worst one but the rest aren't much better...
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Old 15th Jan 2014, 22:02
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Progress

Hi all.
Can you inform me on this insident , please.
No politics ,facts.
Used to fly in this region in another time.
Regards
Cat B
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Old 17th Jan 2014, 23:47
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Is that it?

Hi
I only wanted more info, never mind facts, were do I go for some basics.
Longe time since I have been in Canada ,was hoping to get some info here.
When i ring my old Rcmp friends I need to be atleast a litle informed.
Anyone.
Regards
Cpt B
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Old 25th Jan 2014, 18:29
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No news on the Cessna?

Hi All.
Can anyone update me on this peculiar story.?
Justagiolo77, I apreciate your initial info, and understand your reply on my post.
I am not going to the RCMP with anything, and have no friends there.
( Got stopped a few times mind You)
I do know a few Rcmp that I trained in the old days and I am so interested in this story that I might call on or two of them.
This beeing a rumor network, does anyone have the latest and greatest.?

In the 1990s I once departed Paris with 3.5 million SwissFranks in the rear hold.
If it wasent for the passangers and my family , I think I and the Fo would have diverted to Africa...?
Not much like this going on these days, latest thing i recall was a 737 stolen in Oslo Fornebu in the late 1970s and the pilot living happely in Alaska ever after.

Anyway , if someone writes a book on peculiar aviation incidents , I suspect this Cessna 208 might get a page or two.
Any news.
Yours sincerely
Capt B
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Old 31st Jan 2014, 14:42
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Anyone else heard this rumor? Heard that the CCT at the airport showed him walking to the plane with rather large bag(s) and that the bags that got put in the brinks truck were not filled with what they should have been. This may seem far fetched, but there seems to be no info on anything, and if it is true, I'm quite sure they wouldn't want it to get out. No trying to stir anything, just stuff I've heard.
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