Air Canada to launch cut-rate carrier
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"B Scale?" Porter/Geogian/ and others are already "C Scale", The race to the bottom is on, fed by two Goverment owned flight schools both starting with an "S!" What a joke this industry is turning in to.
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Air Canada LCC
While I agree with the "B" "C" scale comments.Does anyone have a realistic solution besides telling those of us not working at AC or perhaps WJ that we should sacrifice our mortgages and careers for those already there. By not working for those operators paying less.
A truly useful solution would help the industry.
A truly useful solution would help the industry.
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ajet32, Its simple, join a tough militant union! When I left the Air Force I, like many with this background , was a bit anti union, five weeks after joining an Airline my views had changed 180 deg! Be willing to "stop the props" on worthwhile issues, pay being right up there in the top five.
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Investing - The Globe and Mail
Interesting that the AC pilots are willing to revise their pension plan now.
Victor Li tried to get them to do the same thing as a condition of investing in AC when they were CCAA. He was told to take a hike.
What's changed ?
Interesting that the AC pilots are willing to revise their pension plan now.
Victor Li tried to get them to do the same thing as a condition of investing in AC when they were CCAA. He was told to take a hike.
What's changed ?
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This is what's changed!
(from a friend)
Air Canada Pilots,
For the last 6 years we have lived with a concessionary contract as a result of CCAA. Subsequent wage re-opener in 2006 and negotiations in 2009, resulted in the same gun to our head approach by the company and capitulation by the pilot group for the good of ensuring the survival of the company. Or so we thought. We witnessed billions of dollars flow from Air Canada to hedge funds and banks. Watched as Robert Milton personally made over 100 million dollars and senior executives receive huge bonuses. Mr Rovinescu's compensation last year, 4.6 million and also offered a bonus of 5 million for next year.
Our Master Executive Council Chair, Bruce White, wanted to start a new approach with the company, one of mutual co-operation. We have since witnessed Captains being disciplined for J class seating, reinterpretation of pay protection, stalling of our profit share grievance (negotiated in 2003) , scope violations grievance, reduced summer vacations slots and the list goes on. We have also seen that our feeder airline, Jazz, was able to negotiate a non concessionary contract with improvements in many areas including to their DB pension indexed (for all pilots) fully funded by....Air Canada.. The start up of Sky Regional.*Etc.
Now with this TA, the company wants to divide the pilot group between those that will have a DB pension and those that won’t. Those that will work at Air Canada proper and those at LCC. Reserve rule changes. Grouping Pay. Limited mobility in our ability to bid for pay or lifestyle. Once again having to give something up to protect our pension (potential reduced benefits). 4 years flat pay for new hires. Up to 118 Hours a month.....
In pro sports, we see a revenue sharing between the players and the owners. We have given the company huge amounts of savings, yet where is our share of these cost improvements. As a minimum, we should at least receive 50% of the savings, if not more.
We were told by our MEC chair that this would not be a concessionary contract. In his latest news letter, The MEC Chair Bruce White mentions "it's important to focus on the facts and not the spin.* Reading through the new document will not provide the perspective you need to fully understand the changes contained throughout it." So if the written word is not right, we will now have to listen to the spin of our own Negotaiating Committee and hope that the company does not interpret the written word of the contract. We know how creative the company is with a contract that has been in place for decades, imagine how our newly worded contract will be attacked and re-interpreted. Read....degradation of our profession yet again.
*
Very importantly this " MEC unanimously authorized a ratification vote on the Tentative Agreement" comment in Bruce White’s newsletter #17 is so misleading it is sickening.....Some of the pilot group understand this statement to think the MEC unanimously endorses this TA and that we should vote YES for it........when in fact they were unable to come up with an endorsement at all..... a 6 vs. 6 split vote for and against this TA. They are only unanimously putting this TA forward to the membership to vote on it.....with no endorsement at all.
The company is using this spin in the Daily inferring that this is a done deal. The media is using it as well for the same purpose. Yet here we should be trying to vote this TA down with a 90% plus NO vote and are in the process of creating a vote to have our elected MEC Chair removed. How out of touch the MEC, NC and company are.
Those that are unsure of the ramifications of voting NO do not need to worry. Voting this TA down will keep our existing contract in place until a point where we have created a new TA. A TA that has been created with a new NC directed by a unified MEC that will actually follow the memberships expectations....all under the supervision of an MEC Chair that uses communication, guidance and transparency while following our constitution throughout the negotiating process.
We have all made sacrifices at some point in our careers to get to Air Canada, pilots before us made sure that they left their profession in better shape than when they started. Now it is our turn. We do not have a gun pointed to our head. We are in no rush to sign a poorly worded concessionary divisive contract. Inform yourself, talk to your LEC reps and get the straight facts, not a spin. Vote NO. Let us do this right for a change, as a united pilot group with a common goal.
This legal and constitutional petition that has started for the recall of Bruce White, our MEC Chair has been running for 36 hours and has over 650 signed names attached. In talking with various members it is clear he has lost touch as to who he works for and who he represents. Please take the time to fill it out.
Vote on the Recall of ACPA MEC CHAIR BRUCE WHITE Petition
It is time that We take back our profession as Air Canada Pilots.
Thank you.
Air Canada Pilots,
For the last 6 years we have lived with a concessionary contract as a result of CCAA. Subsequent wage re-opener in 2006 and negotiations in 2009, resulted in the same gun to our head approach by the company and capitulation by the pilot group for the good of ensuring the survival of the company. Or so we thought. We witnessed billions of dollars flow from Air Canada to hedge funds and banks. Watched as Robert Milton personally made over 100 million dollars and senior executives receive huge bonuses. Mr Rovinescu's compensation last year, 4.6 million and also offered a bonus of 5 million for next year.
Our Master Executive Council Chair, Bruce White, wanted to start a new approach with the company, one of mutual co-operation. We have since witnessed Captains being disciplined for J class seating, reinterpretation of pay protection, stalling of our profit share grievance (negotiated in 2003) , scope violations grievance, reduced summer vacations slots and the list goes on. We have also seen that our feeder airline, Jazz, was able to negotiate a non concessionary contract with improvements in many areas including to their DB pension indexed (for all pilots) fully funded by....Air Canada.. The start up of Sky Regional.*Etc.
Now with this TA, the company wants to divide the pilot group between those that will have a DB pension and those that won’t. Those that will work at Air Canada proper and those at LCC. Reserve rule changes. Grouping Pay. Limited mobility in our ability to bid for pay or lifestyle. Once again having to give something up to protect our pension (potential reduced benefits). 4 years flat pay for new hires. Up to 118 Hours a month.....
In pro sports, we see a revenue sharing between the players and the owners. We have given the company huge amounts of savings, yet where is our share of these cost improvements. As a minimum, we should at least receive 50% of the savings, if not more.
We were told by our MEC chair that this would not be a concessionary contract. In his latest news letter, The MEC Chair Bruce White mentions "it's important to focus on the facts and not the spin.* Reading through the new document will not provide the perspective you need to fully understand the changes contained throughout it." So if the written word is not right, we will now have to listen to the spin of our own Negotaiating Committee and hope that the company does not interpret the written word of the contract. We know how creative the company is with a contract that has been in place for decades, imagine how our newly worded contract will be attacked and re-interpreted. Read....degradation of our profession yet again.
*
Very importantly this " MEC unanimously authorized a ratification vote on the Tentative Agreement" comment in Bruce White’s newsletter #17 is so misleading it is sickening.....Some of the pilot group understand this statement to think the MEC unanimously endorses this TA and that we should vote YES for it........when in fact they were unable to come up with an endorsement at all..... a 6 vs. 6 split vote for and against this TA. They are only unanimously putting this TA forward to the membership to vote on it.....with no endorsement at all.
The company is using this spin in the Daily inferring that this is a done deal. The media is using it as well for the same purpose. Yet here we should be trying to vote this TA down with a 90% plus NO vote and are in the process of creating a vote to have our elected MEC Chair removed. How out of touch the MEC, NC and company are.
Those that are unsure of the ramifications of voting NO do not need to worry. Voting this TA down will keep our existing contract in place until a point where we have created a new TA. A TA that has been created with a new NC directed by a unified MEC that will actually follow the memberships expectations....all under the supervision of an MEC Chair that uses communication, guidance and transparency while following our constitution throughout the negotiating process.
We have all made sacrifices at some point in our careers to get to Air Canada, pilots before us made sure that they left their profession in better shape than when they started. Now it is our turn. We do not have a gun pointed to our head. We are in no rush to sign a poorly worded concessionary divisive contract. Inform yourself, talk to your LEC reps and get the straight facts, not a spin. Vote NO. Let us do this right for a change, as a united pilot group with a common goal.
This legal and constitutional petition that has started for the recall of Bruce White, our MEC Chair has been running for 36 hours and has over 650 signed names attached. In talking with various members it is clear he has lost touch as to who he works for and who he represents. Please take the time to fill it out.
Vote on the Recall of ACPA MEC CHAIR BRUCE WHITE Petition
It is time that We take back our profession as Air Canada Pilots.
Thank you.
Last edited by publius; 13th Apr 2011 at 09:44.
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The company has gone a step too far this time and the result appears to be the re-uniting of the pilot group. Of course the vote is yet to be taken but if the mood in the crewroom and flight deck is any indication there is no way this no way this TA will pass....
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A third attempt at a low cost operation for Air Canada?
Remember ZIP, more of a financial profit and loss statement than an LCC
Tango, the LCC that turned into an airfare
...or will ACPA be part of the equation again
call me cynical, but...
Air Canada + new LCC + ACPA = another failed LCC
Air Canada + new LCC - ACPA = a fighting chance
bon chance avec ca
Remember ZIP, more of a financial profit and loss statement than an LCC
Tango, the LCC that turned into an airfare
...or will ACPA be part of the equation again
call me cynical, but...
Air Canada + new LCC + ACPA = another failed LCC
Air Canada + new LCC - ACPA = a fighting chance
bon chance avec ca
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Airline Consolidations: Watch out Transat and Sunwing
Big Brother (AC) has woken up ,and about to take a stroll all over Europe.
What will JAZZ (Chorus) be doing in the future (Carribean Destinations ...maybe?)
Transat is a lame duck airline. Fleet renewal will be the ultimate downfall for them. Air Transat can lose up to 60 cents/dollar until it is in the red. Why? Cargo GHC's provide 50% of revenue at Transat. Resorts, Tour Companies provide 10-20% cash flow. With the airline (Transat) providing only roughly 30% cash flow, it will take AC/Jazz/Westjet/Sunwing a long time to roll up Transat. Loook at press statements from Transat. They arte not worried. Sunwing doesn't have that buffer to survive. Ask ZOOM, Skyservice what happened. The only way to bleed Transat is to take over the GHC's (Ground Handling Contracts) for Cargo Flights at all Transat stations (wake up Swissport, Servisair, Dryden, ATS) . Accomplish that and Transat will join ZOOM and Skyservice into airline history.
That leaves Sunwing (Hunter Family). Hmmm..... Do I merge with Jazz or merge with Westjet (A.K.A Stressjet!!)? Or do I buy Porter Airlines and diversify?
Big brother (AC) should let little brother (Jazz) go and grow up on his own.
The CPA drains AC of cash and makes JAZZ profitable. Take away the CPA and AC, and Jazz is in big trouble. Ac needs to be on its own without Jazz for greater longterm health.
What will JAZZ (Chorus) be doing in the future (Carribean Destinations ...maybe?)
Transat is a lame duck airline. Fleet renewal will be the ultimate downfall for them. Air Transat can lose up to 60 cents/dollar until it is in the red. Why? Cargo GHC's provide 50% of revenue at Transat. Resorts, Tour Companies provide 10-20% cash flow. With the airline (Transat) providing only roughly 30% cash flow, it will take AC/Jazz/Westjet/Sunwing a long time to roll up Transat. Loook at press statements from Transat. They arte not worried. Sunwing doesn't have that buffer to survive. Ask ZOOM, Skyservice what happened. The only way to bleed Transat is to take over the GHC's (Ground Handling Contracts) for Cargo Flights at all Transat stations (wake up Swissport, Servisair, Dryden, ATS) . Accomplish that and Transat will join ZOOM and Skyservice into airline history.
That leaves Sunwing (Hunter Family). Hmmm..... Do I merge with Jazz or merge with Westjet (A.K.A Stressjet!!)? Or do I buy Porter Airlines and diversify?
Big brother (AC) should let little brother (Jazz) go and grow up on his own.
The CPA drains AC of cash and makes JAZZ profitable. Take away the CPA and AC, and Jazz is in big trouble. Ac needs to be on its own without Jazz for greater longterm health.
Old is new
Just goes to show AC management has yet to acquire a brain.
Can anyone name one full service carrier in North America that has made this work? I can name several who tried and failed.
Just to make sure it won't work they go with a mixed fleet.
This looks like a typical AC tactic to run competitors out with predatory pricing and then fold the shop. Might explain the pilots going along with it.
20driver
Can anyone name one full service carrier in North America that has made this work? I can name several who tried and failed.
Just to make sure it won't work they go with a mixed fleet.
This looks like a typical AC tactic to run competitors out with predatory pricing and then fold the shop. Might explain the pilots going along with it.
20driver
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This looks like a typical AC tactic to run competitors out with predatory pricing and then fold the shop. Might explain the pilots going along with it.
20driver
Actually the pilots are not going along with it.....just look at the outrage, the TA having to be pulled and the massive petition to remove the MEC chair and the Negots comitee.
20driver
Actually the pilots are not going along with it.....just look at the outrage, the TA having to be pulled and the massive petition to remove the MEC chair and the Negots comitee.
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Jazz is not the problem.
AC has it's own problems, that are much larger than Jazz.
Jazz accounts for less that 10% of AC and the CPA is in place until 2020, with rates renewed every three years.
Why continue to try and kill the business arrangement that AC set up? There are shareholders getting their returns for saving AC's butt in 2004 through this arrangement with Jazz.
Why do you want to hurt the people who gave you money to survive? They may not help you in the future if you kill how they are getting paid back today.
Why not work towards creating a stronger company with the help of Jazz and the shareholders, that for some reason want to invest in aviation?
AC has it's own problems, that are much larger than Jazz.
Jazz accounts for less that 10% of AC and the CPA is in place until 2020, with rates renewed every three years.
Why continue to try and kill the business arrangement that AC set up? There are shareholders getting their returns for saving AC's butt in 2004 through this arrangement with Jazz.
Why do you want to hurt the people who gave you money to survive? They may not help you in the future if you kill how they are getting paid back today.
Why not work towards creating a stronger company with the help of Jazz and the shareholders, that for some reason want to invest in aviation?
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The only reason Jazz makes money is Air Canada. Period. AC pays for the fuel and owns most, of if not all of their airplanes. They also buy every single seat Jazz has available. The reason shareholders buy in is because the CPA guarantees them a healthy return on their investment.
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2004 ? Even the Mafia lets you off the hook eventually. Just how long is the expection of the the so called " Investors..aka vulture funds " to be allowed to rape and pillage. Until the only thing left are the bones?
They have made their investment back 10 fold by now.It's high time for them to say thank you for the zillions they have made and to move on to another victim.
They have made their investment back 10 fold by now.It's high time for them to say thank you for the zillions they have made and to move on to another victim.
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Sorry if what I wrote was not what you wanted to read. It would seem from what I have read lately in business articles about your company, Air Canada, that you have a very bumpy road ahead of you. There may not be as much money there as you think, and you may need to ask for money, AGAIN! Step carefully, many businesses have fallen down and nobody has helped them get back up because they are viewed as bad investments! And please dont crying about how much the execs have taken, that will not solve your very real problems with this business. Who will want to invest in your company is going to be your problem in the very near future, and some not all of those high paid execs will be the reason money is re-invested in your company. That is what they are paid for when dealing with a business that is in the RED.
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Re
call me cynical, but...
Air Canada + new LCC + ACPA = another failed LCC
Air Canada + new LCC - ACPA = a fighting chance
Air Canada + new LCC + ACPA = another failed LCC
Air Canada + new LCC - ACPA = a fighting chance
It will be interesting to see how this all unfolds.... what is the latest news on Sky regional anyway? Last I heard they were fighting for gate space at Billy Bishop.
