Looking for advise!
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Looking for advise!
Hi everyone.I was just wondering if anyone could give me a bit of advise. I have just returned to flying after taking a break for five years due to fund restrictions. I currently have my CPL and am interested in completing my multi IFR.
Does anyone know of any places worthy of applying to to get a ramp job and then perhaps down the road sometime start building time doing cargo medivacs etc? any advise would be appreciated. Im prepared to eat Kraft dinner everyday if I have to
Ive decided that flying is the only thing that will make me happy in this world. Any advise ...Please
Does anyone know of any places worthy of applying to to get a ramp job and then perhaps down the road sometime start building time doing cargo medivacs etc? any advise would be appreciated. Im prepared to eat Kraft dinner everyday if I have to
Ive decided that flying is the only thing that will make me happy in this world. Any advise ...Please
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Whole bunch in the NWT:
Air Tindi
Arctic Sunwest
Ken Borek
Buffalo
Northwestern Air Lease
Northwright
Summit
Thats just the larger companies based in and around Yellowknife.
The days of the old Canadian road trip are slowly coming to an end for the larger companies, so its best to check their websites to see how they want your application - if they like what they see they will call you. Dont just show up without warning if you do want to visit - call and request an appointment; most Chief Pilots will happily give you one if you call ahead -- give them a day or two's notice.
The road trip/show up approach still works very well for the smaller companies or "mom and pop" operations - of which they are a lot more of than the larger places - so if you dont get much luck in your first 5 months or so of applying to larger companies, buy a car that you know wont survive the trip, load up on coke, twinkies, chef boyardee, and a box of your resume, drive to the nearest coast, turn around and drive the other way hitting all the small stops along the way.
Good luck!
Air Tindi
Arctic Sunwest
Ken Borek
Buffalo
Northwestern Air Lease
Northwright
Summit
Thats just the larger companies based in and around Yellowknife.
The days of the old Canadian road trip are slowly coming to an end for the larger companies, so its best to check their websites to see how they want your application - if they like what they see they will call you. Dont just show up without warning if you do want to visit - call and request an appointment; most Chief Pilots will happily give you one if you call ahead -- give them a day or two's notice.
The road trip/show up approach still works very well for the smaller companies or "mom and pop" operations - of which they are a lot more of than the larger places - so if you dont get much luck in your first 5 months or so of applying to larger companies, buy a car that you know wont survive the trip, load up on coke, twinkies, chef boyardee, and a box of your resume, drive to the nearest coast, turn around and drive the other way hitting all the small stops along the way.
Good luck!
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Multi-IFR
Have you thought about travelling out to BC? Pro-IFR/Professional Flight Center run by John Montgomery at Boundary Bay Airport is a good option. You may even be able to get hired as an instructor after you finish your training. Google it and see if it's for you...good luck.
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It's a good idea getting your multi-engine... and if your tight on the budget, look at doing your IFR with a class 3 rating (single engine)instead of the class 1.
It will save you money!
It will save you money!
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Um...save you money in the short term I think you mean...
There is a difference in flight test between the Group 3 and Group 1 which would require another flight test down the road therefore additional overall cost.
If you were to look for a job with a CPL, Multi Engine Rating and a Group 3 Instrument Rating - you'll be looking for a long time.
Spend the extra dollars and do the Group 1 - thats the only way you will get the opportunity to gain precious multi-engine time - doing the Group 3 route will only take you longer, require more money in the end and may have you sitting in a 172 as a circuit queen rather than punching holes in the sky right seat in a King Air.
There is a difference in flight test between the Group 3 and Group 1 which would require another flight test down the road therefore additional overall cost.
If you were to look for a job with a CPL, Multi Engine Rating and a Group 3 Instrument Rating - you'll be looking for a long time.
Spend the extra dollars and do the Group 1 - thats the only way you will get the opportunity to gain precious multi-engine time - doing the Group 3 route will only take you longer, require more money in the end and may have you sitting in a 172 as a circuit queen rather than punching holes in the sky right seat in a King Air.
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If your looking towards working the ramp which will lead you to a flying position. Companies will hire you with a class 3. As for the above when it comes to getting checked out in the right seat your class 1 will come with it...
Why pay for something you don't need to!
Why pay for something you don't need to!
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That comes with some pretty big assumptions. Oh, and you pay for it because yes, you do need it.
You assume that the operators minimum requirements in their Company Operations Manual allows for pilots to be hired with a CPL with either a Group 1 or Group 3 Instrument Rating. Almost all [read ALL] will save the hassle and hire only those with CPL and a Group 1 unless they have no other choice. Why would a company agree to hire you knowing you are going to cost more to train than the next guy down the list?
You also assume that you are getting a PPC on your first gig.
Quite a number of operators would only do a PCC for a Right Seat job. Any operator flying an aircraft which is certified for single pilot ops and does not require a type rating (Navajo, Beech 99, certain King Airs, even a B-1900 operating under 704) but who operates as two crew only needs to complete a PCC for the second pilot - not a PPC.
Last but not least you assume that the check pilot is authorized through their ACP to issue initial ratings. Quite a number of ACP holders are only authorized to renew IR's - even if they are expired, not for the issue of initial ratings - which would be required for an upgrade from G3 to G1.
You assume that the operators minimum requirements in their Company Operations Manual allows for pilots to be hired with a CPL with either a Group 1 or Group 3 Instrument Rating. Almost all [read ALL] will save the hassle and hire only those with CPL and a Group 1 unless they have no other choice. Why would a company agree to hire you knowing you are going to cost more to train than the next guy down the list?
You also assume that you are getting a PPC on your first gig.
Quite a number of operators would only do a PCC for a Right Seat job. Any operator flying an aircraft which is certified for single pilot ops and does not require a type rating (Navajo, Beech 99, certain King Airs, even a B-1900 operating under 704) but who operates as two crew only needs to complete a PCC for the second pilot - not a PPC.
Last but not least you assume that the check pilot is authorized through their ACP to issue initial ratings. Quite a number of ACP holders are only authorized to renew IR's - even if they are expired, not for the issue of initial ratings - which would be required for an upgrade from G3 to G1.
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Thanks Tips... But I'm not assuming anything here!
From the sounds of things you got in with the wrong company (Arctic Sunwest) and I feel for you...
Saying that I understand how 703/704 ops work. The one thing you have to take into consideration is the amount of time rampies are spending on the ramp these days which is close to two years. In which case a pcc would not renew their IFR. So the ride in most cases would have to be a ppc unless your working for a shady company!
From the sounds of things you got in with the wrong company (Arctic Sunwest) and I feel for you...
Saying that I understand how 703/704 ops work. The one thing you have to take into consideration is the amount of time rampies are spending on the ramp these days which is close to two years. In which case a pcc would not renew their IFR. So the ride in most cases would have to be a ppc unless your working for a shady company!
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Nice shot - aims off though.
A PCC will never renew an IFR; whether they have been on the ramp for a year or two makes no difference, its only a PPC - and you're right, the operator would have to be quite shaddy to suggest otherwise.
The whole point is that you cannot "renew" from a Group 3 to a Group 1 - you have to "issue" and thats the point I'm driving here. Not many operators are authorized as a Flight Training Unit to provide training and flight test for the initial issue for the Group 1. So should the Op choose to take your advise, their options become limited for jobs to those operators who are also authorized to train for the initial issue of a Group 1 Instrument Rating.
A PCC will never renew an IFR; whether they have been on the ramp for a year or two makes no difference, its only a PPC - and you're right, the operator would have to be quite shaddy to suggest otherwise.
The whole point is that you cannot "renew" from a Group 3 to a Group 1 - you have to "issue" and thats the point I'm driving here. Not many operators are authorized as a Flight Training Unit to provide training and flight test for the initial issue for the Group 1. So should the Op choose to take your advise, their options become limited for jobs to those operators who are also authorized to train for the initial issue of a Group 1 Instrument Rating.
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I'm with all those who suggest a Group 1 rather than a Group 3 instrument rating (though I've yet to make use of it).
One point to consider is that, if you're cash constrained (as I was) when finishing your IFR, you can save a fair bit by doing most of the flying in an IFR single.
I did my multi on a Seminole, then for IFR spent the bulk of the time in a DA40 w/G1000 and ADF+DME (MANY shiny newer glass piston singles don't seem to have ADF+DME, which strike me as being of exteme importance in terms of initial IFR training). I then jumped back into the Seminole for the flights with engine failures, and did the ride in that airplane.
You hardly need the second engine for plodding around a hold or doing and NDB approach! That, and I actually found the Seminole far more pleasant to fly an ILS with after the DA40... The ride was passed, and the money saved let me get up to 250 hrs (wrote the IATRA), and do a taildragger checkout and a bit of aerobatics. Also nice to switch between glass and steam gauges, and different aircraft types.
Incidentally, that taildragger checkout helped me get my first job last summer, flying a Pawnee... and without the Group 1 IFR and IATRA, I wouldn't have gotten my second job, at a northern operator (though that ended miserably, and I never flew there).
Cheers,
Colin
One point to consider is that, if you're cash constrained (as I was) when finishing your IFR, you can save a fair bit by doing most of the flying in an IFR single.
I did my multi on a Seminole, then for IFR spent the bulk of the time in a DA40 w/G1000 and ADF+DME (MANY shiny newer glass piston singles don't seem to have ADF+DME, which strike me as being of exteme importance in terms of initial IFR training). I then jumped back into the Seminole for the flights with engine failures, and did the ride in that airplane.
You hardly need the second engine for plodding around a hold or doing and NDB approach! That, and I actually found the Seminole far more pleasant to fly an ILS with after the DA40... The ride was passed, and the money saved let me get up to 250 hrs (wrote the IATRA), and do a taildragger checkout and a bit of aerobatics. Also nice to switch between glass and steam gauges, and different aircraft types.
Incidentally, that taildragger checkout helped me get my first job last summer, flying a Pawnee... and without the Group 1 IFR and IATRA, I wouldn't have gotten my second job, at a northern operator (though that ended miserably, and I never flew there).
Cheers,
Colin
