Air Canada Age 60 Limit To End
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If you consider teaching deserving kids to fly a twin and getting valid real life multi time, so they can get a good flying job, to be work, then we will have to disagree,
They can thank me later.
The trouble with being judgemental is that people usually change their attitudes as they get older and they end up on the other side of the argument without ever seeing the irony.
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engfireleft
"I sometimes have a hard time considering what I do "work" as well. I too am teaching young pilots how to operate fast, complex jets at the same time they earn a wage (although not enough of one)"
If your an Air Canada pilot the above statement is an outright lie.......we don't have young pilots at this airline. Ninety percent of Air Canada pilots are over the age of 30 when they join and most have thousands of hours on various types...if they are from the military I am sure the training they have received is more than adequate!
"I am also considering voluntarily extending the time at which I contribute to the pension while selflessly reducing the time that I draw from it. That will help improve the chances the pension will be around for those very same young pilots."
Spare me...Your way to good to us Jr membership. I wonder how you would feel selflessly being a 777 rp rather than a Captain........
Intrest rates are rising and our pension is going to be just fine without your voluntary contribution to fly till ya die...
"They can thank me later."
Hold your breath and wait for the thank you!
"The trouble with being judgemental is that people usually change their attitudes as they get older and they end up on the other side of the argument without ever seeing the irony."
The problem with greed is you actually believe you deserve to make a couple of hundred large a year while booking off to further reduce your schedule from a whopping 9 days a month to 6 because its your right. I have been with AC for 10 years 4.5 I was on the 744 as an RP in Vancouver and I can tell you that not a single flight went by when someone over the age of 58 did not fall asleep in the flight deck. Take your hard earned pension and do what the Gentleman ahead of your did............Retire.
What ever happened to the class of pilot who actually wanted to leave this industry in a better state than what they found it in....
pitotman
"I sometimes have a hard time considering what I do "work" as well. I too am teaching young pilots how to operate fast, complex jets at the same time they earn a wage (although not enough of one)"
If your an Air Canada pilot the above statement is an outright lie.......we don't have young pilots at this airline. Ninety percent of Air Canada pilots are over the age of 30 when they join and most have thousands of hours on various types...if they are from the military I am sure the training they have received is more than adequate!
"I am also considering voluntarily extending the time at which I contribute to the pension while selflessly reducing the time that I draw from it. That will help improve the chances the pension will be around for those very same young pilots."
Spare me...Your way to good to us Jr membership. I wonder how you would feel selflessly being a 777 rp rather than a Captain........
Intrest rates are rising and our pension is going to be just fine without your voluntary contribution to fly till ya die..."They can thank me later."
Hold your breath and wait for the thank you!
"The trouble with being judgemental is that people usually change their attitudes as they get older and they end up on the other side of the argument without ever seeing the irony."
The problem with greed is you actually believe you deserve to make a couple of hundred large a year while booking off to further reduce your schedule from a whopping 9 days a month to 6 because its your right. I have been with AC for 10 years 4.5 I was on the 744 as an RP in Vancouver and I can tell you that not a single flight went by when someone over the age of 58 did not fall asleep in the flight deck. Take your hard earned pension and do what the Gentleman ahead of your did............Retire.
What ever happened to the class of pilot who actually wanted to leave this industry in a better state than what they found it in....
pitotman
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Apparently you don't recognize tongue in cheek very well pitotman. Air Canada does have a large number of inexperienced jet pilots at the bottom of the list, but I will agree with this statement:
In fact the average age of a new pilot at Air Canada is 34. These people not only deserve a chance to earn the same pension as was originally envisioned (35 years service), but they will eventually wake up to the fact they are fighting aggressively to rob themselves of that. Then you will see some abrupt 180's in their attitude.
Seniority rights are seniority rights. I notice you can't wait to get there yourself and are prepared to cashier people before they are ready to achieve it. Is that greed I smell?
Also, why do you assume everybody in favour of eliminating age discrimination is old and at the top of the seniority list?
we don't have young pilots at this airline. Ninety percent of Air Canada pilots are over the age of 30 when they join
The problem with greed is you actually believe you deserve to make a couple of hundred large a year while booking off to further reduce your schedule from a whopping 9 days a month to 6 because its your right.
Also, why do you assume everybody in favour of eliminating age discrimination is old and at the top of the seniority list?
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pitotman
Hmm I’ve only been flying AC aircraft for over 30 years so I couldn’t possible know as much about the airline as you do. If you’re serious about improving your take home pay why are you hiding out in Vancouver the most senior base? I’ve never fallen asleep in my seat on any aircraft however I’ve noticed all the young lions hang out in business class whenever they can or can’t wait to get into the bunk because they didn’t get their proper rest before reporting for duty. I would suggest that you put a rag in it before you make a bigger fool of yourself.
Hmm I’ve only been flying AC aircraft for over 30 years so I couldn’t possible know as much about the airline as you do. If you’re serious about improving your take home pay why are you hiding out in Vancouver the most senior base? I’ve never fallen asleep in my seat on any aircraft however I’ve noticed all the young lions hang out in business class whenever they can or can’t wait to get into the bunk because they didn’t get their proper rest before reporting for duty. I would suggest that you put a rag in it before you make a bigger fool of yourself.
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Air Canada Age 60 Limit To End
engfireleft,
I know what I signed on for here at Air Canada and I will honor it as I am a man of my word. A large number of inexperienced jet pilots.........come on man who are you kidding........every single pilot in this airline came from a commuter turbo prop, military, or a corporate outfit...I find it humorous that these inexperienced jet pilots have to have their hands held by you.
Inexperienced usually means hired out of university into the right seat of a 737 ala Ryan Air........so please again spare me! Fast jets or slow Jets are still a hell of alot easier to fly than a turbo prop.
"Seniority rights are seniority rights. I notice you can't wait to get there yourself and are prepared to cashier people before they are ready to achieve it. Is that greed I smell?"
See my first line, how am I greedy if I am willing to honor the contract that I signed on for? I don't for a second believe that you have to be old and sr to want to fly past 60. One of my best mates joined here at 32 and wants to fly to 65 and freely admits its for his own personal gain. I for one would like to sit back and have my career advance with attrition as it is designed to do.
The under lying problem for pilots is the sense of entitlement and greed. The cause to fly over 60 is one thing........but to mask it as a human rights issue is laughable and insulting to anyone who has ever had their human rights violated.
I am one of very few at Air Canada who have flown with pilots over the age of 60 and as I have stated on many occasion less that 10% of the pilots I have flown with can still fly to satisfactory standard. The marked decrease in one's attention span, fatigue and ability dramatically decreases as you approach 60 and continues to decrease in a linear fashion... I know a few guys who are over 60 and still fly better than the competent 40 year old. However they are the exception not the rule.....
How many times have you flown with an over 60 pilot across the pacific in the middle of the night?
Pitotman
I know what I signed on for here at Air Canada and I will honor it as I am a man of my word. A large number of inexperienced jet pilots.........come on man who are you kidding........every single pilot in this airline came from a commuter turbo prop, military, or a corporate outfit...I find it humorous that these inexperienced jet pilots have to have their hands held by you.
Inexperienced usually means hired out of university into the right seat of a 737 ala Ryan Air........so please again spare me! Fast jets or slow Jets are still a hell of alot easier to fly than a turbo prop.
"Seniority rights are seniority rights. I notice you can't wait to get there yourself and are prepared to cashier people before they are ready to achieve it. Is that greed I smell?"
See my first line, how am I greedy if I am willing to honor the contract that I signed on for? I don't for a second believe that you have to be old and sr to want to fly past 60. One of my best mates joined here at 32 and wants to fly to 65 and freely admits its for his own personal gain. I for one would like to sit back and have my career advance with attrition as it is designed to do.
The under lying problem for pilots is the sense of entitlement and greed. The cause to fly over 60 is one thing........but to mask it as a human rights issue is laughable and insulting to anyone who has ever had their human rights violated.
I am one of very few at Air Canada who have flown with pilots over the age of 60 and as I have stated on many occasion less that 10% of the pilots I have flown with can still fly to satisfactory standard. The marked decrease in one's attention span, fatigue and ability dramatically decreases as you approach 60 and continues to decrease in a linear fashion... I know a few guys who are over 60 and still fly better than the competent 40 year old. However they are the exception not the rule.....
How many times have you flown with an over 60 pilot across the pacific in the middle of the night?
Pitotman
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Joined AC at 25, left at 57. Knew a few who would eventually have to be dragged, kicking and screaming when the finish line came. Felt sorry for them actually. I always felt that being an airline pilot was what I did....not who I am. Me thinks there are some who can't distinguish between the two. I flew with George Vilven many times...nice enough fellow. If he really wants to strap a triple7 to his ass at 67 years of age then fill your boots; more to be pitied than laughed at because the one thing money can't buy is time-the rarest of commodities. Just sayin.
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A large number of inexperienced jet pilots.........come on man who are you kidding........every single pilot in this airline came from a commuter turbo prop, military, or a corporate outfit...I find it humorous that these inexperienced jet pilots have to have their hands held by you.
I know what I signed on for here at Air Canada and I will honor it as I am a man of my word.
I for one would like to sit back and have my career advance with attrition as it is designed to do.
I am one of very few at Air Canada who have flown with pilots over the age of 60 and as I have stated on many occasion less that 10% of the pilots I have flown with can still fly to satisfactory standard.
The marked decrease in one's attention span, fatigue and ability dramatically decreases as you approach 60 and continues to decrease in a linear fashion...
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pitotman
Hmm I’ve only been flying AC aircraft for over 30 years so I couldn’t possible know as much about the airline as you do.
Tan,
I never proclaimed to know more than anyone, let alone you sir. I have been on Med to long haul for the last 10 years. As I stated in my opinion from what I have witnessed there is a noticeable decrease in pilot's ability to do the job as they get older...I also flew 4 of those years in either Japan or Rep of Taiwan. Both allow pilots to fly past 60 and on numerous occasions on both of those contracts pilots sleeping was more prevalent in the over 58 crowd than the younger pilots...!
"If you’re serious about improving your take home pay why are you hiding out in Vancouver the most senior base? "
Not sure why you put the above comment...I am not hiding out anywhere. When Air Canada hired me they placed me in this base. The fact that it happens to be a Sr. base is irrelevant. This is where my home has been since I immigrated and that is unlikely to change for any reason! If I was in this job for the money I would have stayed at my last contract job which was one of the highest paying contracts in the world.
"I’ve never fallen asleep in my seat on any aircraft however I’ve noticed all the young lions hang out in business class whenever they can or can’t wait to get into the bunk because they didn’t get their proper rest before reporting for duty."
That is great for you and obviously your the type of pilot who takes good care of yourself and brings a professional attitude to the flight deck and that is to be applauded. But one only has to sit in the bar at the Danubius to see that most do not share your enthusiasm.
If you can honestly say that you never burnt the candle at both ends when you were younger than again I applaud you. But I would venture that the younger demographics at Air Canada these days take better care of their bodies than our forefathers over the last 75 years.
"I would suggest that you put a rag in it before you make a bigger fool of yourself."
I am a fool because I have an opinion against fly till ya die so be it. I'd rather be a fool than a hypocrite.
PitotFool
Hmm I’ve only been flying AC aircraft for over 30 years so I couldn’t possible know as much about the airline as you do.
Tan,
I never proclaimed to know more than anyone, let alone you sir. I have been on Med to long haul for the last 10 years. As I stated in my opinion from what I have witnessed there is a noticeable decrease in pilot's ability to do the job as they get older...I also flew 4 of those years in either Japan or Rep of Taiwan. Both allow pilots to fly past 60 and on numerous occasions on both of those contracts pilots sleeping was more prevalent in the over 58 crowd than the younger pilots...!
"If you’re serious about improving your take home pay why are you hiding out in Vancouver the most senior base? "
Not sure why you put the above comment...I am not hiding out anywhere. When Air Canada hired me they placed me in this base. The fact that it happens to be a Sr. base is irrelevant. This is where my home has been since I immigrated and that is unlikely to change for any reason! If I was in this job for the money I would have stayed at my last contract job which was one of the highest paying contracts in the world.
"I’ve never fallen asleep in my seat on any aircraft however I’ve noticed all the young lions hang out in business class whenever they can or can’t wait to get into the bunk because they didn’t get their proper rest before reporting for duty."
That is great for you and obviously your the type of pilot who takes good care of yourself and brings a professional attitude to the flight deck and that is to be applauded. But one only has to sit in the bar at the Danubius to see that most do not share your enthusiasm.
If you can honestly say that you never burnt the candle at both ends when you were younger than again I applaud you. But I would venture that the younger demographics at Air Canada these days take better care of their bodies than our forefathers over the last 75 years.
"I would suggest that you put a rag in it before you make a bigger fool of yourself."
I am a fool because I have an opinion against fly till ya die so be it. I'd rather be a fool than a hypocrite.
PitotFool
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It is really interesting how many pilots think that being over the age of sixty means one becomes less competent and less suited to flying an airplane.
It is even more interesting to read this.
I am one of very few at Air Canada who have flown with pilots over the age of 60 and as I have stated on many occasion less that 10% of the pilots I have flown with can still fly to satisfactory standard.
I guess those of us who maintained competency past the age of 60 are really fortunate huh?
I retired at 70 because I wanted to enjoy what ever years I have left without all the B.S. involved in aviation. For sure it was not because I was no longer flying to a satisfactory standard, unless those who were doing my check rides were falsifying the paper work.
Oh, by the way the flying I was doing was far more demanding of flying skills than managing a big jet.
It is even more interesting to read this.
I am one of very few at Air Canada who have flown with pilots over the age of 60 and as I have stated on many occasion less that 10% of the pilots I have flown with can still fly to satisfactory standard.
I retired at 70 because I wanted to enjoy what ever years I have left without all the B.S. involved in aviation. For sure it was not because I was no longer flying to a satisfactory standard, unless those who were doing my check rides were falsifying the paper work.
Oh, by the way the flying I was doing was far more demanding of flying skills than managing a big jet.
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pitotman
quote
""If you’re serious about improving your take home pay why are you hiding out in Vancouver the most senior base? "
Not sure why you put the above comment...I am not hiding out anywhere. When Air Canada hired me they placed me in this base. The fact that it happens to be a Sr. base is irrelevant. This is where my home has been since I immigrated and that is unlikely to change for any reason! If I was in this job for the money I would have stayed at my last contract job which was one of the highest paying contracts in the world."
end of quote
With that statement if you don’t understand what I said I have to question if you’re even an AC cruise pilot. In short you could bid out of YVR at any time to improve your lot. Perhaps actually flying an airplane might improve your attitude..
quote
""If you’re serious about improving your take home pay why are you hiding out in Vancouver the most senior base? "
Not sure why you put the above comment...I am not hiding out anywhere. When Air Canada hired me they placed me in this base. The fact that it happens to be a Sr. base is irrelevant. This is where my home has been since I immigrated and that is unlikely to change for any reason! If I was in this job for the money I would have stayed at my last contract job which was one of the highest paying contracts in the world."
end of quote
With that statement if you don’t understand what I said I have to question if you’re even an AC cruise pilot. In short you could bid out of YVR at any time to improve your lot. Perhaps actually flying an airplane might improve your attitude..
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Most pilots at Air Canada choose a base/aircraft/seat below what they could hold for a myriad of valid reasons. For them though wailing about career stagnation is disingenuous. If it really meant that much to them they would bid the next higher position the moment their seniority could hold it.
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Reading this thread, here's my observations:
Clunkdriver is the coolest, classiest guy on here.
Ray767 is a pompous ass. Sort of a Charles Emerson Winchester type.
Same for engfireleft, but more of a Frank Burns type.
Wonder how they got the nickname 'skygods'?
Clunkdriver is the coolest, classiest guy on here.
Ray767 is a pompous ass. Sort of a Charles Emerson Winchester type.
Same for engfireleft, but more of a Frank Burns type.
Wonder how they got the nickname 'skygods'?
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Pragmatic realism and recognition of contemporary societal values might not be cool to some people, but it is a lot smarter. Committing everything to keep outmoded and illegal practices in the face of inexorable change is not.
The personal attacks that have characterized this issue are a disgrace as is the blanket of silence enforced over anybody supporting the elimination of mandatory retirement by ACPA and at least one other aviation website.
This is only going to end one way, and how we as individuals and as a group conduct ourselves will not change the outcome because this is not simply an Air Canada issue. It does however put our character on display for better or for worse.
The personal attacks that have characterized this issue are a disgrace as is the blanket of silence enforced over anybody supporting the elimination of mandatory retirement by ACPA and at least one other aviation website.
This is only going to end one way, and how we as individuals and as a group conduct ourselves will not change the outcome because this is not simply an Air Canada issue. It does however put our character on display for better or for worse.
You were once young too. Retire somewhere cheap. Forget about Victoria, already.
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Air Canada Age 60 Limit To End
Tan,
I didn't miss your point mate...........my point is this...Where in the above text do I complain about my pay....Dude I can assure you I would not move to YYZ for all the marbles in the toy box so you can have them. I know exactly how much of a financial penalty I am paying buy living in Vancouver and I gladly accept it.
I have had family members have their human rights and civil rights violated and I take particular offense to a bunch of greedy airline brats complaining about your rights....At least with Buck in Vancouver we are under no illusions as to why he wants to come back....hell he has a 24 year old bride who needs taking care of and those little blue pills only go so far!!
I would respect your group a little more if they came out and announced "Heh its about money, the need to still work, or whatever.........
But human rights..........come on man give your head a shake! Thirty years you have had with this airline Tan I wonder why you are so set on staying on another year what is it 1.1 million or is it just a million of your rights that are being violated.............
I am done with you lot...I honestly can say I wish you all a happy, healthy, safe and long retirement.........nothing more nothing less! Just hope ya take you blinders off to enjoy it!
pitotman
I didn't miss your point mate...........my point is this...Where in the above text do I complain about my pay....Dude I can assure you I would not move to YYZ for all the marbles in the toy box so you can have them. I know exactly how much of a financial penalty I am paying buy living in Vancouver and I gladly accept it.
I have had family members have their human rights and civil rights violated and I take particular offense to a bunch of greedy airline brats complaining about your rights....At least with Buck in Vancouver we are under no illusions as to why he wants to come back....hell he has a 24 year old bride who needs taking care of and those little blue pills only go so far!!
I would respect your group a little more if they came out and announced "Heh its about money, the need to still work, or whatever.........
But human rights..........come on man give your head a shake! Thirty years you have had with this airline Tan I wonder why you are so set on staying on another year what is it 1.1 million or is it just a million of your rights that are being violated.............
I am done with you lot...I honestly can say I wish you all a happy, healthy, safe and long retirement.........nothing more nothing less! Just hope ya take you blinders off to enjoy it!
pitotman
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Stop eating your young
What makes you think my career is traumatic and unsatisfactory? I'm actually one of the lucky ones who got out of Canada.
I'm very satisfied with my career, and I'm not planning to eat my young in the dying days of it. In fact, I plan to retire as early as possible. As Clunkflyer wisely said, one shouldn't confuse what they do with who they are.
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You were once young too. Retire somewhere cheap. Forget about Victoria, already.
Since your life has gotten so much better now that you've left Canada for (correct me if I'm wrong) that bastion of human rights UAE, why are you in this debate anyway? It doesn't effect you.
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OOOOOOOHHHHHH Gooooody!
I'm overjoyed I've drawn such a master-debater into this (melo)drama!
We can delve into your 'reasonably cheap' retirement villa for the insane at a later date.
Is that you, Dick?(credit to GK)
I'm overjoyed I've drawn such a master-debater into this (melo)drama!
We can delve into your 'reasonably cheap' retirement villa for the insane at a later date.
Is that you, Dick?(credit to GK)
Last edited by GMC1500; 8th May 2010 at 05:50.