Dziekanski
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Dziekanski
Dziekanski was tasered at YVR airport and tragically died as a result of this. Tragic but I'm sick of the continuing ranting and raving with regards to this incident.
He was a Polish immigrant, spoke no English (why allowed into the country?) (if you were emigrating to a foreign country and the process took two whole years, wouldn't it be smart to take some English lessons?), Was a convicted felon who served time in prison for burglary (why allowed into the country?), was planning to live with his mother ( 40 years old, why allowed into the country?), only apparent skill was a builder (we don't need them), went mental in arrivals after customs and refused to leave the secure arrivals area, threatened police with his behaviour, threw furniture around the area, destroyed computer desk tops. Got tasered and died. So sad.
Enough with the inquiries, an utter loser died albeit tragically.
He was a Polish immigrant, spoke no English (why allowed into the country?) (if you were emigrating to a foreign country and the process took two whole years, wouldn't it be smart to take some English lessons?), Was a convicted felon who served time in prison for burglary (why allowed into the country?), was planning to live with his mother ( 40 years old, why allowed into the country?), only apparent skill was a builder (we don't need them), went mental in arrivals after customs and refused to leave the secure arrivals area, threatened police with his behaviour, threw furniture around the area, destroyed computer desk tops. Got tasered and died. So sad.
Enough with the inquiries, an utter loser died albeit tragically.
Last edited by Rollingthunder; 13th Aug 2008 at 14:07.
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Nothing like Canadian compassion for our newcomers...
Result of this incident, and tons in Montreal too by the way, calls by ex-RCMP Chief Zaccardelli and other official channels to either get rid of the little cute yellow device or severely restrict its use.
Also heard the the Richmond RCMPers involved are about to be made sacrificial lambs. Let's hope they all like mint sauce.
Result of this incident, and tons in Montreal too by the way, calls by ex-RCMP Chief Zaccardelli and other official channels to either get rid of the little cute yellow device or severely restrict its use.
Also heard the the Richmond RCMPers involved are about to be made sacrificial lambs. Let's hope they all like mint sauce.
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The public aren`t the ones to decide when a police officer is in danger. The officer is.
The public aren`t the ones to decide when more than one officer is required when facing a criminal, drunk, or any other individual found breaking the law. The officer on site is.
There are reasons this man died. I`m sure the Taser helped expedite his departure. Which is unfortunate, but like all patient Canadians, he had the opportunity to sit in quiet agony at the airport like so many of us. Didn`t he.
The public aren`t the ones to decide when more than one officer is required when facing a criminal, drunk, or any other individual found breaking the law. The officer on site is.
There are reasons this man died. I`m sure the Taser helped expedite his departure. Which is unfortunate, but like all patient Canadians, he had the opportunity to sit in quiet agony at the airport like so many of us. Didn`t he.
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No-one's arguing with you on the point that the officer(s) on scene make the decision to exert force or not.
Did you see the video shot as the episode unfolded...you can see the 4 of them got it wrong, and much will be made of it when the time comes to face the music I'm sure.
Anyway, it's almost a year ago since it all happened - so we'll see if the music even starts to be faced...
Now, wanna talk about CATSA and get my blood pressure up ??!
Did you see the video shot as the episode unfolded...you can see the 4 of them got it wrong, and much will be made of it when the time comes to face the music I'm sure.
Anyway, it's almost a year ago since it all happened - so we'll see if the music even starts to be faced...
Now, wanna talk about CATSA and get my blood pressure up ??!
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I won't debate the "excessive force" aspect of this partiuclar incident. I agree that the video pretty much shows the Mounties painted themselves into a corner and have to answer for it now.
In the old days, they'd have tackled him, cuffed him, and carted him off to the jug. He might have been banged up and in pain, but at least he'd have better odds he'd be alive.
Yeah, don't get me started on the CATSA.
"Stupid is as stupid does."
Forrest Gump
In the old days, they'd have tackled him, cuffed him, and carted him off to the jug. He might have been banged up and in pain, but at least he'd have better odds he'd be alive.
Yeah, don't get me started on the CATSA.
"Stupid is as stupid does."
Forrest Gump
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While there seems little doubt that the RCMP overreacted - with tragic consequences - responsibility for this fiasco surely must lie with the Vancouver Airport Authority (VAA).
The preliminary report on the incident by the VAA, released on Dec 6, 2007, makes interesting reading. It states that Robert Dziekanski, an immigrant from Poland, arrived at 1520 on Oct 13 on a Condor flight from Frankfurt (para 1) and, after considerable delay due to difficulties in completing his customs declaration (Dziekanski spoke no English, and was sweating profusely), passed through primary passport control at 1609 (para 24).
A Visitor Information Counsellor estimated that he was approached by Dziekanski's mother, Mrs Cisowski, and her companion several times between early afternoon and evening on Oct 13 (para 27). They told him they were expecting to meet her son, who was due to arrive from Europe that day. The couple had been at YVR since 1400. A customer service agent (CSA) recalled being approached by the same couple at 1850 and that Mrs Cisowski could not "provide information about [Dziekanski's] flight such as airline, flight number or scheduled arrival time" (paras 28,29). To me, frankly, this beggars belief. Furthermore, apparently no effort was made by VAA staff to identify the flight on which Dziekanski might have arrived. Mrs. Cisowski asked to have Robert Dziekanski paged and this was done at 1900 and again at about 1905 (para 33). The CSA did not inform Mrs Cisowski that the page would not be heard in the Customs Hall (para 34). According to the report, the last interaction between Mrs Cisowski and VAA staff took place at 1930. Mrs Cisowski is quoted in the media as saying she left YVR to return to her home in Kamloops at 2200. Are we to believe she made no effort to communicate with VAA staff for 2.5 hours?
Meanwhile, Dziekanski, after exiting passport control, had been waiting at the baggage carousel, apprently because his mother had mistakenly advised him that she would meet him there on his arrival. Shortly after 2230 Dziekanski attempted to exit the customs hall and was directed to customs and immigration for processing (para 47). At around 2300 a Canadian Border Services officer (BSO) retrieved Dziekanski's checked baggage from the Lufthansa baggage counter, which he had not picked up (para 49), and began the immigration process. At that time, at least two BSO's were aware that Dziekanski's relatives had been at YVR to pick him up. Between 2315 and 2400, one of them twice paged Mrs. Cisowski, left a message on her home telephone, and checked the public area to see if she was still there (para 52, 53). Dziekanski's immigration process was completed at 0015 and he was advised he was free to leave. He did not and was advised a second time that he was free to go. He eventually entered the public "meet and greet" area from the International Reception Lobby (IRL) at 0053 (para 58). The report states that Dziekanski began to cause a disturbance by banging on the door to the IRL at 0107 (para 66). He subsequently became more violent, going in and out of the IRL, "yelling and screaming and throwing luggage" (para 92). It was not until eighteen minutes later that two VAA security guards finally appeared at the scene (para 92). Apparently, they were unable to subdue Dziekanski, an unarmed man who was obviously an arriving passenger in an unfamiliar environment at one in the morning. And they call themselves security guards? At 0121 the RCMP is summoned (para 87) and arrives at 0128 (para 0128). Seconds later, Dziekanski is tasered and dies shortly thereafter. At this time, Dziekanski is still not identified as the person a host of airport staff have been looking for for the past 9 or 10 hours.
In answer to a direct question from a CBC reporter in an interview aired on The National on November 14, Larry Berg, President and CEO of the VAA, professed himself "not embarrassed" by the failure of his staff to locate Robert Dziekanski and reunite him with his relatives who had come to the airport to meet him.
Last time I checked, Berg was still in his job.
Rockhound
The preliminary report on the incident by the VAA, released on Dec 6, 2007, makes interesting reading. It states that Robert Dziekanski, an immigrant from Poland, arrived at 1520 on Oct 13 on a Condor flight from Frankfurt (para 1) and, after considerable delay due to difficulties in completing his customs declaration (Dziekanski spoke no English, and was sweating profusely), passed through primary passport control at 1609 (para 24).
A Visitor Information Counsellor estimated that he was approached by Dziekanski's mother, Mrs Cisowski, and her companion several times between early afternoon and evening on Oct 13 (para 27). They told him they were expecting to meet her son, who was due to arrive from Europe that day. The couple had been at YVR since 1400. A customer service agent (CSA) recalled being approached by the same couple at 1850 and that Mrs Cisowski could not "provide information about [Dziekanski's] flight such as airline, flight number or scheduled arrival time" (paras 28,29). To me, frankly, this beggars belief. Furthermore, apparently no effort was made by VAA staff to identify the flight on which Dziekanski might have arrived. Mrs. Cisowski asked to have Robert Dziekanski paged and this was done at 1900 and again at about 1905 (para 33). The CSA did not inform Mrs Cisowski that the page would not be heard in the Customs Hall (para 34). According to the report, the last interaction between Mrs Cisowski and VAA staff took place at 1930. Mrs Cisowski is quoted in the media as saying she left YVR to return to her home in Kamloops at 2200. Are we to believe she made no effort to communicate with VAA staff for 2.5 hours?
Meanwhile, Dziekanski, after exiting passport control, had been waiting at the baggage carousel, apprently because his mother had mistakenly advised him that she would meet him there on his arrival. Shortly after 2230 Dziekanski attempted to exit the customs hall and was directed to customs and immigration for processing (para 47). At around 2300 a Canadian Border Services officer (BSO) retrieved Dziekanski's checked baggage from the Lufthansa baggage counter, which he had not picked up (para 49), and began the immigration process. At that time, at least two BSO's were aware that Dziekanski's relatives had been at YVR to pick him up. Between 2315 and 2400, one of them twice paged Mrs. Cisowski, left a message on her home telephone, and checked the public area to see if she was still there (para 52, 53). Dziekanski's immigration process was completed at 0015 and he was advised he was free to leave. He did not and was advised a second time that he was free to go. He eventually entered the public "meet and greet" area from the International Reception Lobby (IRL) at 0053 (para 58). The report states that Dziekanski began to cause a disturbance by banging on the door to the IRL at 0107 (para 66). He subsequently became more violent, going in and out of the IRL, "yelling and screaming and throwing luggage" (para 92). It was not until eighteen minutes later that two VAA security guards finally appeared at the scene (para 92). Apparently, they were unable to subdue Dziekanski, an unarmed man who was obviously an arriving passenger in an unfamiliar environment at one in the morning. And they call themselves security guards? At 0121 the RCMP is summoned (para 87) and arrives at 0128 (para 0128). Seconds later, Dziekanski is tasered and dies shortly thereafter. At this time, Dziekanski is still not identified as the person a host of airport staff have been looking for for the past 9 or 10 hours.
In answer to a direct question from a CBC reporter in an interview aired on The National on November 14, Larry Berg, President and CEO of the VAA, professed himself "not embarrassed" by the failure of his staff to locate Robert Dziekanski and reunite him with his relatives who had come to the airport to meet him.
Last time I checked, Berg was still in his job.
Rockhound
