Hmy resurected?
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAHAHAHAHAAAAA.... heard that one too...same old senior management bunch. (I will say that there are a couple in Flt Ops I have a great deal of respect for) but the rest? Oil is over 118 US a barrel today, and is supposed to go higher, Good price to pay for (another) Canadian start-up carrier. I remember all those times after failure after failure of a quality carrier, the comments like: "We are going to be back, or we are aiming to recreate the halcyon days of blah blah blah". This is no way a slag against the good people who lost a job, just a laff at those who would try another start with the same senior crew who brought it to and end...Good luck people...
Rant Over...
Rant Over...
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Yeah back in November last year Dr Ho was approached by a chinese airline.
Apparently this airline wanted to use Harmony's OC and supply some surplus aircraft for use here in Canada. The plan was to set HMY up again to do connecting flights within Canada for these guys.
Also some rumors about parts pricing for B767's. KFC was approached at some stage as well. Basically there was some enquires made around the airport but nothing has come of it.
I think Dr Ho has lost the OC or it is soon becoming expired.
Apparently this airline wanted to use Harmony's OC and supply some surplus aircraft for use here in Canada. The plan was to set HMY up again to do connecting flights within Canada for these guys.
Also some rumors about parts pricing for B767's. KFC was approached at some stage as well. Basically there was some enquires made around the airport but nothing has come of it.
I think Dr Ho has lost the OC or it is soon becoming expired.
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Huh?????
Service Air died long ago and they were strictly cargo...................I thought we burried that thread.
And even if they were still around, what do they have to do with Harmony? NOTHING!
Service Air died long ago and they were strictly cargo...................I thought we burried that thread.
And even if they were still around, what do they have to do with Harmony? NOTHING!
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But if it makes you feel any better - I also heard they (Harmony) were going to be back in the fall as a charter carrier. Aparently they revamped their offices in the old Canadian building.
However - we all know how aviation works. I'll wait till their aircraft shows up on the ramp..................then I'll get excited.
However - we all know how aviation works. I'll wait till their aircraft shows up on the ramp..................then I'll get excited.
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Sorry tweaker
didn`t mean to throw you a curve ball, and yes service air is dead tweaker. And so is Jetsgo and a few others, thanks for bringing some clarity to the situation. Now pull the stick out and put it down.
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It is a slaughterhouse out there. And the culling of the herd has only just started. Airlines are having a hell of a time adjusting to the new oil prices, and it will shake out this business like nothing has in its history (this is no short term thing like SARS, or a war). Last year at my airline (a really, really big one), fuel constituted 29% of our total expenditures, this year it will be 33% and this is at 70% hedging at 85 dollars per barrel. At many airlines it is going to approach 40% of total expenditures.
The consumer is showing an unwillingness to absorb the costs, and at the end of the summer thousands upon thousands of airline employees will be laid off in Canada alone. Worldwide we are talking about tens of thousands. Including thousands of pilots. The pilot shortage is over, batten down the hatches!! Harmony starting up again "if" it happens will only be of short duration, and only if someone wants to lose money at a pace that would even scare the hell out of Bill Gates. What a business, we are at the breakeven point after 90 years of flying (that is right not a dollar made worldwide in flying passengers and freight, when adding all the profits against the losses). It is a great business model.
The consumer is showing an unwillingness to absorb the costs, and at the end of the summer thousands upon thousands of airline employees will be laid off in Canada alone. Worldwide we are talking about tens of thousands. Including thousands of pilots. The pilot shortage is over, batten down the hatches!! Harmony starting up again "if" it happens will only be of short duration, and only if someone wants to lose money at a pace that would even scare the hell out of Bill Gates. What a business, we are at the breakeven point after 90 years of flying (that is right not a dollar made worldwide in flying passengers and freight, when adding all the profits against the losses). It is a great business model.
Last edited by Otterman; 18th Jun 2008 at 13:20.
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I think that's a bit of an insult to Bill Gates, and his ilk...I agree with you that HMY would be a great risk and a likely poor investment, at the the very least it would be a bad time to start up again...
BUT, the loss they had the first time CAME FROM AN INDIVIDUAL! Drop in the pan. Think about that; the accumulated loss on HMY probably equivalent to your beer fund, in relative terms.
Bad investment? Yes. Maybe. But a crippling blow to the play money of the HMY family? not even close. Food for thought. The write-off is minor, to these guys.
Believe it.
BUT, the loss they had the first time CAME FROM AN INDIVIDUAL! Drop in the pan. Think about that; the accumulated loss on HMY probably equivalent to your beer fund, in relative terms.
Bad investment? Yes. Maybe. But a crippling blow to the play money of the HMY family? not even close. Food for thought. The write-off is minor, to these guys.
Believe it.
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Hindsight
Gotta love how some people with the aid of hindsight come of as intellects. The original post was just a question if anyone had heard of a resurfasing of this airline. I really hope your all back in the sky`s. Really to bad HMY didn`t make it. The crunch may be coming again in Canada.
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Sorry about the straight talk. Last year (2007) was the first year that the industry made a collective profit since 2000 (5.6 billion dollars US).By the way this was the year in which Harmony closed its doors. At 107 dollars per barrel the industry will swing back into loss (projected at 2.3 billion dollars US). For every dollar above this number costs increase 1.6 billion dollars US worldwide (for Air Canada a one dollar per barrel rise increases costs by 25 million dollars).
Whatever profits that have been made last year were in the end financed by a large contribution in labour savings given (taken from) by employees. Through a combination of wage reductions and pension annihilation (this is more the case in North America). And increases in IT efficiencies (at my airline reducing our counter staff by 50%), we have been able to keep the passengers coming. The limit has been reached with employees, and the business model that airlines have gotten used to is dead.
Our profession was not given a chance to get back some of these reductions because the recovery period has been unusually short. Where in the past our profession was considered on par with the better paying and appreciated jobs, it has now been downgraded to the status of truck drivers (or worse). The entry costs into the pilot profession is extremely steep, and is rising further every day. New hires at my airline are saddled with debts in excess of 200,000 Canadian Dollars (this is a Major airline in Europe). These kids ( are usually around 22 when they join up) and should do okay, as my airline will be one of the ones that will survive and is one of the few that has been able to retain some semblance of the past pay and conditions. It is grim out there. Punch in “regional pilot” on youtube and you will get to see a horror movie about the regional pay levels in the USA.
All this is way of topic from Harmony, I would be very surprised to see them back (they flew one of our old 767’s), maybe the family is loaded, but they did not get that way by flushing money down the drain. The score so far in 2008 is 133 airlines worldwide having seized operations (that is as of June 24, 2008 06:45 a.m. eastern standard time). And overnight United Airlines has announced that 950 of its pilots will be let go. This is only the beginning.
Having all these very experienced pilots out there on the market will drive the terms and conditions for our profession downwards, not only domestically but also abroad for the contract pilots.
Whatever profits that have been made last year were in the end financed by a large contribution in labour savings given (taken from) by employees. Through a combination of wage reductions and pension annihilation (this is more the case in North America). And increases in IT efficiencies (at my airline reducing our counter staff by 50%), we have been able to keep the passengers coming. The limit has been reached with employees, and the business model that airlines have gotten used to is dead.
Our profession was not given a chance to get back some of these reductions because the recovery period has been unusually short. Where in the past our profession was considered on par with the better paying and appreciated jobs, it has now been downgraded to the status of truck drivers (or worse). The entry costs into the pilot profession is extremely steep, and is rising further every day. New hires at my airline are saddled with debts in excess of 200,000 Canadian Dollars (this is a Major airline in Europe). These kids ( are usually around 22 when they join up) and should do okay, as my airline will be one of the ones that will survive and is one of the few that has been able to retain some semblance of the past pay and conditions. It is grim out there. Punch in “regional pilot” on youtube and you will get to see a horror movie about the regional pay levels in the USA.
All this is way of topic from Harmony, I would be very surprised to see them back (they flew one of our old 767’s), maybe the family is loaded, but they did not get that way by flushing money down the drain. The score so far in 2008 is 133 airlines worldwide having seized operations (that is as of June 24, 2008 06:45 a.m. eastern standard time). And overnight United Airlines has announced that 950 of its pilots will be let go. This is only the beginning.
Having all these very experienced pilots out there on the market will drive the terms and conditions for our profession downwards, not only domestically but also abroad for the contract pilots.
, otherwise agree with everything you're saying.Join Date: Aug 2000
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Flew one of our 767 into Vancouver a few years ago, and a whole team from Harmony took a tour of the aircraft. It was my understanding that they wanted two units. We phased them out through 2006 and 2007. I guess they went somewhere else.
Best of luck, O.
Best of luck, O.
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I've heard they have written all the required manuals around the 767!
They should do alright if they stick as a charter carrier this time. What really killed them is no plan and wierd runs.
As for the money - Dr. Hoe probably needs another airline to offset the record profits Huskey oil is making!
They should do alright if they stick as a charter carrier this time. What really killed them is no plan and wierd runs.
As for the money - Dr. Hoe probably needs another airline to offset the record profits Huskey oil is making!
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I could be wrong, but I believe its a different Ho with Husky oil. It's Li ka Shing, the big money guy in HKG.
At 140/barrel, just try to sell that one to the banks...good luck.
At this level, and for any sustainable time period, airlines are going to be killed.
At 140/barrel, just try to sell that one to the banks...good luck.
At this level, and for any sustainable time period, airlines are going to be killed.
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Saltaire
I reckon you're right... man, 5.6 billion USD profit globally for the industry in '07, and the previous poster pointed out it was the first year in the black for the industry globally... I work for a carrier that made 1.45 of that 5.6 billion... and presently we are battening down the hatches for one hell of a storm:
- all temp staff given notice
- all foreign training courses cnx'd
- foreign recruiting on hold (no more road shows in far off places)
- we are gettin' weekly flight ops reports from our manglers 'bout the state of play (there's nothin' like a crisis to create the need for critical info to flow, it's too bad it took 142 USD-per-barrel oil to start it up! Better late 'n never tho).
Anyway I'd say Harmony will be whistlin' a different tune: the sound of silence!
I reckon you're right... man, 5.6 billion USD profit globally for the industry in '07, and the previous poster pointed out it was the first year in the black for the industry globally... I work for a carrier that made 1.45 of that 5.6 billion... and presently we are battening down the hatches for one hell of a storm:
- all temp staff given notice
- all foreign training courses cnx'd
- foreign recruiting on hold (no more road shows in far off places)
- we are gettin' weekly flight ops reports from our manglers 'bout the state of play (there's nothin' like a crisis to create the need for critical info to flow, it's too bad it took 142 USD-per-barrel oil to start it up! Better late 'n never tho).
Anyway I'd say Harmony will be whistlin' a different tune: the sound of silence!
